Author Topic: Ranged, what counters you best?  (Read 1938 times)

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Offline Prpavi

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #15 on: December 17, 2013, 01:19:44 pm »
+1
OP: i think a better question is "what counters HA/HX?"

u c what i did there? :D

I c  :mrgreen:

xbows, other mounted ranged, Arab cav Sword, closed city maps


the only thing that counters ranged, is real life death  :twisted:

not guys who play one melee class all the time.
And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Sniger

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2013, 01:22:41 pm »
-1
Using 80k worth of gear as a heavy cavalryman with a 27/15 build I am very hesistant to take on a lone archer in an open field. I think that is very wrong on so many levels. I don't have a shield though. The times I risk it and stab them in the face moving at full speed, they often don't even die. While they usually take 1/3rd of my hp on the way there and another 1/3rd on the run. If they have the courtesy of not simply oneshotting me with a low distance insta hit headshot.

Especially my old friends like Shokoshugi who do way too much damage with way too high missile speed, can hold their shot for 5 seconds and sidestep at a very fast pace. I do not feel like I am a counter to archers in a 1 vs 1 scenario, and I will not risk it until the very end of the round.

cav is a unit class not Rambo assassin backstabba :p

Offline Ronin

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2013, 01:40:18 pm »
+5
Shields, scene objects and dodging are passive counters
Backstabbing, forcing into melee, ranged are active counters

A thrower with shield is a good example as it combines both the passive and active countering elements.
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Offline Macropus

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2013, 01:47:49 pm »
+2
I believe MotF + shields combo is the best counter to ranged.

Offline Panos_

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2013, 01:49:57 pm »
+1
I have played 3 generations as a 2hander, 1 generation as a thrower, and 1 generation as a 1hander.

Midway

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Offline Bulzur

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2013, 01:50:36 pm »
+5
Using 80k worth of gear as a heavy cavalryman with a 27/15 build I am very hesistant to take on a lone archer in an open field. I think that is very wrong on so many levels. I don't have a shield though. The times I risk it and stab them in the face moving at full speed, they often don't even die. While they usually take 1/3rd of my hp on the way there and another 1/3rd on the run. If they have the courtesy of not simply oneshotting me with a low distance insta hit headshot.

Wait what ? You're stabbing them with a Cracked Katana, on a donkey ?
Or you're only taking into accounts the archers with 50 head armor ?


As a standard straw hat archer, i nearly always die in one hit in the face, it's part of the deal.

When a cavalry charges you dead on, they are taking a risk. But so is the archer, if he decides to try to shoot you, instead of just downblocking/sideblocking while sidestepping.
The archer may take 1/3rd of your health in one hit, but on the other hand, if he misses, you're nearly assured of a one hit kill. Thing is, it depends more of the archer skills, than your own.

I'm a veteran archer (not sayin i'm good, just that i'm old).
What used to kill me the easiest, were lancers previous the angle nerf.

Nowadays, it really depends on the map, and the players.
1h/shield heavy cav are the deadliest. Since your awareness can't help you survive against them, unlike ennemy xbows.
Next are the sniper xbow, since they also always oneshot me.
Couching cav on courser is also pretty sneaky, since i often miss the timing, and hit the horse in the dead, instead of the rider. And then die. What's funny, and occured several times, is my arrow killing the horse, but me still geting killed by the cav. Damn timing.

Rondel+shield are dangerous, when they gank you smartly, when you're already duelling another infantry.
HA and HX are okay on 1v1, but since they're cav, it's easy for them to gank ennemies one by one. And if there's at least 2 HA/HX, or even one lancer and one HA, you're just doomed.

I tend to avoid archer duels, since it's so easy to dodge arrows at long distance (though on some maps you can't see shit) and i'm an hybrid, so less wpf, so less accuracy, etc...


In my opinion, the main archery problem came with the loomed "rework". The fact that archery is the only class were looming (for 6 lp) your bow and arrows doesn't give you any more damage, means any player can be as deadly as one who wasted 3lp on his arrows, and used 3lp to get a slightly better draw speed and missile speed. Also, it's the one where you feel the most difference between lv30 and lv33+.
So nowadays, we have a lot of regular archers alt, with not even loomed bow or arrows, who know how to block, since their main is a melee, and thus aren't even fast to kill in melee. Worst being xbows, since they can easily be better hybrids than archers.

Also, the bodkin arrows doing pierce damage, instead of the longbow only, means any archers, and even worse : HA, can use bodkin arrows and deal decent damage to anyone. The fact that it breaks nearly every 3 rounds is a good money sink, but gold isn't a good balancing factor.


Finally, a lot of the QQ comes from the fact that there's too many range. And i don't see how you can solve this problem, since the class in itself is actually not so bad balanced. Every people saying archery is OP since Steeve killed them easily, forget the fact that they're facing a high level player, and they would also have died if facing TomMyyY in melee, for example.
(click to show/hide)

Edit : very recently, throwers with axes /daggers / shurikens, with a really good accuracy and excellent drawing speed, are actually a big threat in 1v1. Damn you Zibi.
[14:36] <@chadz> when you login there is a message "your life as horse archer was too depressing for you. you decided to commit suicide. please create a new char"
[19:32] <@chadz> if(dave_ukr_is_in_server) then rain_chance = 98%;

Offline Adamar

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2013, 01:56:55 pm »
0
cav is a unit class not Rambo assassin backstabba :p

They do it a lot though, they just turn on stealth mode.

Offline Prpavi

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2013, 01:58:04 pm »
+1
can't read cuz greek duuurp

oki you play 2 melee classes, you're not and archer or xbow so bugger off  :mrgreen:
And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2013, 02:00:15 pm »
0
cav is a unit class not Rambo assassin backstabba :p

What is archery then ? To me it sounds like cav isn't supposed to do anything at all. And it largely is the case ingame (EU meta)

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2013, 02:43:31 pm »
+1
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Hirlok

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2013, 04:06:14 pm »
+2
  • fucking horses
  • fucking horse gangbang
  • fucking horse archers

(on battle server, and mainly because of my ping)

in general:
  • dedicated xbows
  • pussy archers with small, superfast and superaccurate bows
  • sneaky agi bitches
  • shield my old friends
  • ...and basically everything that has a little bit of battle awareness, can dodge, has a bit of brain and can get to me before I shoot them 3-4 times...


...oho, forgot throwers who often have the same reach as my bow and same or better accuracy at a distance... LOL
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 04:14:27 pm by Hirlok »
Hermit Status report : feeling a little social. Threatening melee my old friends with a comeback. Greasing the string of his old longbow. Carving certain names into the tips of his arrows...

Offline Sir_Senior_the_Eldest

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2013, 04:44:14 pm »
+3
Hi, I'm Senior and a dedicated arbalester. You might know me out of movies like "Where is this sneaky xbow bastard" or "13 bolts 13 dead bodies".

To have a recognizable impact on a battle server with such a slow reloading animation, I figured out an algorithm for my targets:

Primary target: Some veery skilled player on the top of the enemy scoreboard. No matter if it's a ranged, 2h hero or cav.
Secondary targets: Other ranged guys, as they are the direct danger for a  (reloading) xbower. You can see Inf or cav charge you but you cannot always see bolts.
                                Also they are usually low armoured, so good candidates for 1 shots

So there is no wonder, why archers or in general ranged guys suffer a death from bolts.



Counter for xbow is btw no specific class. The most important thing for a crossbowman is cover and time. If you take him one or two of these things, he is just a 1her.
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Offline Tyr_

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2013, 05:31:34 pm »
0
(click to show/hide)

With 24/15 I use a shield, but still, I rather charge into a piker than into an archer that is aware of me, it is ridiculous. I am using a champ mamluk and have 70 body armor myself, but an archer can take up to 30% of my own HP and the one of my horse with a stab from some cheap 1h or take ~50% of the mamluks HP with a headshot (not to mention mendro 1 shoting it with a jarid, but well, at least he has 10 pt), just using my speed against me. Anyone with more than 5 ath can easily dodge heavy horses whilst the light ones like destrier die withing 2 or 3 shots, so there is no chance getting close enough once they see you.
Also half of the archers i manage to get close to survive a slash in the had by my arab cav sword (8ps).

ps: I dont think 1h cav is too weak against archers or any other class, it is one of the most op classes around, especially playing with heavy gear, but it is retarded that polearmers & two handers offer easier/less-risky kills than archers.
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Offline Tindel

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2013, 05:38:05 pm »
+3
I think ranged is the best counter to ranged.

If more people played ranged we would not have this percieved problem with too much ranged.

Im definately thinking about starting to play ranged to deal with all this ranged, i think it will seriously change the situation.

Soon i will respec into ranged, soon.

Offline San

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Re: Ranged, what counters you best?
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2013, 05:41:55 pm »
0
I am glad ranged considers shielders to be such a threat ^~^

So nice.