Author Topic: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros  (Read 1443 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline dontgothere

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 295
  • Infamy: 40
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: DONT_GO_THERE, ARTIEstrongestmanINTHEWORLD, WHERES_MY_CHIPPY, PINGAS, derpyhooves, George_Costanza
Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« on: November 28, 2013, 02:29:51 am »
+2
I have to invest exactly the same number of points into WM and Agi, but now I have 22 less WPF, so that I only JUST meet the requirement for 11 PT at level 34. It's meant nothing but a nerf to anybody following a pure throwing build and there was no corresponding buff to offset it. Before I had a small surplus of WPF over what was required, so if I understand correctly my accuracy got a miniscule boost; now that I only meet the requirement I lose even that. I play naked but now I don't even have the option of wearing any significant armor, so (assuming armor weight still reduces wpf) about half of the gear I've bought is impossible to use with my build.

When the very first round of nerfing hit throw some time back, I thought it would help focus throwers on picking off wounded enemies or at least helping teammates. Ever since then though throwing has been nerfed away from viability as an independent class with the intention that it function almost completely as an alternative choice to xbows for hybrid meleers. Literally no changes except those that objectively force throwing in that direction, except for addition of throwing hammers which are useless. Throwing has never received half as much attention in terms of tweaks as any other group of weapons...and unfortunately that's probably the only reason throwing weapons remain at all viable.

PT 11 and high-tier weapon headshots kill 4/5ths of the time. Archers in leather run away from me with a throwing lance lodged in the back of their neck. It's stupid.

The easiest fix at this point would be to increase the bonus for having a PT above that required for any given throwing weapon.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 02:34:08 am by dontgothere »

Offline San

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1456
  • Infamy: 143
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • 1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
    • View Profile
    • My youtube Brawl videos
  • Faction: Chaos
  • Game nicks: San_of_Chaos
  • IRC nick: San
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2013, 02:46:16 am »
+1
Most throwing got buffed from what I know, and you just happen to be an extreme case. I don't think another change than can globally buff throwers should be put into effect, but it would be a nice gesture to help out outliers such as yourself IMO.

I don't think it'll hurt to have a custom penalty for the very high PT values that are lower than than currently are, especially since PT*11 is unsustainable on heavy PT builds. High PD values have custom penalties, too, so there's already some precedent.

Offline Lt_Anders

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1049
  • Infamy: 651
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Man, I still play this shit?
    • View Profile
    • Drowtales
  • Faction: Astralis
  • Game nicks: Anders_Astralis
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2013, 02:53:15 am »
+1
Most throwing got buffed from what I know, and you just happen to be an extreme case. I don't think another change than can globally buff throwers should be put into effect, but it would be a nice gesture to help out outliers such as yourself IMO.

I don't think it'll hurt to have a custom penalty for the very high PT values that are lower than than currently are, especially since PT*11 is unsustainable on heavy PT builds. High PD values have custom penalties, too, so there's already some precedent.

In the Balance forums, we are discussion ways of fixing throwing lances. Currently, they are borked with this wpf/agi system. Even a pure thrower is hurt by it.(Lances are the weapons that require the most strength in the game) So we are trying to come up with a fix. Join us.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline San

  • Developer
  • ******
  • Renown: 1456
  • Infamy: 143
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • 1/Sympathy = Divide By Zero
    • View Profile
    • My youtube Brawl videos
  • Faction: Chaos
  • Game nicks: San_of_Chaos
  • IRC nick: San
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2013, 02:58:19 am »
+1
I think being able to use 8-11 PT for a pure thrower and having good values of both polearm and throwing wpf for throwing lances are a bit different, but good luck with your endeavor.

Offline oreshy

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 169
  • Infamy: 30
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Braxli
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2013, 04:07:41 am »
0
..as a mostly throwing player with 5 chars/alts ..i must agree every point you wrote artie.
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline ROHYPNOL

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 361
  • Infamy: 127
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Poor Washing Machine
    • View Profile
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2013, 06:00:28 am »
-1
In the Balance forums, we are discussion ways of fixing throwing lances. Currently, they are borked with this wpf/agi system. Even a pure thrower is hurt by it.(Lances are the weapons that require the most strength in the game) So we are trying to come up with a fix. Join us.

A fix, they are gay as fuck in the first place.. leave them the way they are
Quote from: Jeade
you're rough around the edges.
This is the reason people don't like you if anyone ever did.

Offline Jarold

  • Marshall
  • ********
  • Renown: 987
  • Infamy: 142
  • cRPG Player A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • "Always wear more armor than the guy next to you."
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Jarold
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2013, 06:18:01 am »
0

Offline Lt_Anders

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 1049
  • Infamy: 651
  • cRPG Player Sir Black Pawn A Gentleman and a Scholar
  • Man, I still play this shit?
    • View Profile
    • Drowtales
  • Faction: Astralis
  • Game nicks: Anders_Astralis
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2013, 04:11:35 pm »
+1
A fix, they are gay as fuck in the first place.. leave them the way they are

Still, they are the weapon that requires the single largest strength investment in the game(and amongst the most intensive point weapon, aside from the various mounted units)
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline Kafein

  • King
  • **********
  • Renown: 2203
  • Infamy: 808
  • cRPG Player Sir White Rook A Gentleman and a Scholar
    • View Profile
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2013, 05:36:53 pm »
0
A nerf to super STR heavy throwing is not a nerf to throwing. Throwing on balanced builds has been noticeably buffed.

Offline oreshy

  • Count
  • *****
  • Renown: 169
  • Infamy: 30
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
  • Game nicks: Braxli
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2013, 06:08:45 pm »
0
A nerf to super STR heavy throwing is not a nerf to throwing. Throwing on balanced builds has been noticeably buffed.

... yes it isn't a nerf to throwing itself , but a nerf on pure powerthrowers.

... balanced is relative - pure at min required str (tossweapon of choice) i would say nearly yes (for example pure horsethrowers) , but definitely not on hybrid's if you go higher than 4-5 pt.
 
« Last Edit: November 28, 2013, 06:27:10 pm by oreshy »
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

Offline UnholyRolyPoly

  • Earl
  • ******
  • Renown: 348
  • Infamy: 68
  • cRPG Player
    • View Profile
Re: Agi/WM WPF and PT changes = nerf to throbros
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2013, 06:31:27 pm »
0
I have to invest exactly the same number of points into WM and Agi, but now I have 22 less WPF, so that I only JUST meet the requirement for 11 PT at level 34. It's meant nothing but a nerf to anybody following a pure throwing build and there was no corresponding buff to offset it. Before I had a small surplus of WPF over what was required, so if I understand correctly my accuracy got a miniscule boost; now that I only meet the requirement I lose even that. I play naked but now I don't even have the option of wearing any significant armor, so (assuming armor weight still reduces wpf) about half of the gear I've bought is impossible to use with my build.

When the very first round of nerfing hit throw some time back, I thought it would help focus throwers on picking off wounded enemies or at least helping teammates. Ever since then though throwing has been nerfed away from viability as an independent class with the intention that it function almost completely as an alternative choice to xbows for hybrid meleers. Literally no changes except those that objectively force throwing in that direction, except for addition of throwing hammers which are useless. Throwing has never received half as much attention in terms of tweaks as any other group of weapons...and unfortunately that's probably the only reason throwing weapons remain at all viable.

PT 11 and high-tier weapon headshots kill 4/5ths of the time. Archers in leather run away from me with a throwing lance lodged in the back of their neck. It's stupid.

The easiest fix at this point would be to increase the bonus for having a PT above that required for any given throwing weapon.

Just out of curiosity.... what's your wpf vs the penalties from PT and armor?

As for myself...  I'm a thrower hybrid.  I don't really notice much of a difference throwing.  But I do notice the entire server is 1 ATH faster.  So my previous gen was 18-18 but that's not quite fast enough anymore.  However I still need 6 PS to avoid constant glancing lol.  So now I have to be 18-21.