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What is your Opinion of this Proposal

It's very Good
2 (22.2%)
It's Good
4 (44.4%)
I have no feelings about it
2 (22.2%)
It's Bad
0 (0%)
It's very Bad
1 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: New Archery System Proposal  (Read 1082 times)

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Offline Frederick

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New Archery System Proposal
« on: June 16, 2012, 08:04:26 pm »
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I understand the rationale behind making more powerful bows have less accuracy, what I DON'T understand is why having a higher powerdraw for any given bow would result in an archer being less accurate.

I have no problem with archers as they exist now, but I genuinely don't think that the problem that other people have with archers are 'snipers', but the archers that can fire rapid shots at close range into groups of melee players in the face [accuracy being irreleant at such a range] Often times switching back and forth between melee and archery.

I'd like to suggest an alternative system, I'll first explain the system and then explain the benefits. I'm not CERTAIN if this system can actually be coded in the game, but I will assume it can.

Before you read on let me make a preemptive strike against people who might accuse me of advocating a system based on 'realism'. I don't want to argue that this system is more realistic than what exists already; since there are a number of people who see anyone who calls for more realism threatens the balance of the game. I genuinely think this system will help the so-called balance issues with archery. 


First, All Archers have what might be called a "Stamina" or "Energy" bar.

Second, This stamina bar is drained from the period between when a player knocks the arrow [places the arrow on the bow and prepares to draw] to when the player looses the arrow. It does not drain when the player actually grabs the arrow from the quiver.

Third, This stamina bar regenerates automatically so long as the archer is not drawing his bow.

Fourth, As the Stamina bar drains, it hits a series of thresholds, the precise number of thresholds can be decided [Or a continuum could be implemented, It doesn't really matter] The lower thresholds have lower accuracy levels, I.e. the more drained a player's stamina the less accurate the shot will be when loosed from the bow.

Fifth, When the Stamina bar is depleted entirely, the player is 'exhausted' and is unable to draw the bow any further until the stamina bar is sufficiently.

Sixth, Weapon proficiency determines a player's draw speed and accuracy at all thresholds. Two players using the same bow with the same stamina level will have different accurateness if their WPF differ.

Seventh, The more powerful a bow is, the greater the drain on stamina.

Eighth, Powerdraw REDUCES the drain on stamina caused by drawing any given bow AND/OR increases the speed at which stamina regenerates. [Either should suffice]

Ninth, In this system, for the sake of balance, POWERDRAW would not be as important in determining the damage of a bow. 

Tenth, You *COULD* also increase the drain on Stamina caused if a player draws his bow whilst moving, in order to penalize players who use bows like throwing weapons. I'm not adamant about this, but I don't see why Bows need to function as close range Hit-n-run weapons when throwing weapons already function as such.

Eleventh, things like arrow speed and damage and accuracy are kept in the same general way as they are now, as far as slower draw speed, and higher arrow speed.

What this means is that it may not be necessary to have mandatory PD requirements for more powerful bows, because, for example, a player with 0 PD who tried to use a longbow would find it impossible because his Stamina would deplete before being able to get the shot off. And even if he could get the shot off before exhaustion kicked in, the shot would be hopelessly inaccurate.

In this system, Powerdraw does not INCREASE accuracy, but it does help PRESERVE accuracy. Likewise high WPF for a high powered bow does not guarantee accurate shots unless you can maintain a high stamina, which requires  1. sufficient levels of powerdraw and requires that you 2. that Do not try to rapidfire your bow 3. Do not hold your bow in the aimed position for too long

So let's say you have a level 30 with 8 PD using a short bow, that player might be able to fire arrows continuously because his high powerdraw completely negates the relatively small drain on his stamina. However, the shots from an 8 PD shortbow would only be marginally stronger than the shots from an 4PD shortbow.

This system, if implemented correctly, will PROBABLY make a high-level longbow user quite a bit superior to a crossbowman [Because longbow shots now have the potential to be extremely accurate] But I view this as reasonable considering that many crossbow users do not require any skill points invested in their weapon, and some do not even use that much WPF. Whether or not it actually does would be based upon the specific way the system was tweaked. Also the longbowman cannot 'hold' his shot without losing accuracy, nor could he fire many shots at an enemy without each subsequent shot being less accurate than the next. [Unless he waits between each shot or has a very high PD, in which case his WPF suffers and is less accurate overall]

In general, this system will probably benefit archers at long range and melee users at close range, AS IT SHOULD BE. It will also help dedicated archers who as I've said before are really not the main source of frustration for melee users.

Offline zagibu

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2012, 01:18:12 pm »
+7
Or archers could have homing arrows that hit their target with certainty, but they have to type the name of their victim for each shot. This way, archers' typing skill would skyrocket in a few days. For a headshot, you'd have to write the name backwards.
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Offline Frederick

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2012, 09:39:20 pm »
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Or archers could have homing arrows that hit their target with certainty, but they have to type the name of their victim for each shot. This way, archers' typing skill would skyrocket in a few days. For a headshot, you'd have to write the name backwards.

I fail to see the relevant comparison.

Offline zagibu

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2012, 12:05:59 am »
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Sorry, I just felt sad that noone had answered yet, so I gave it a try.
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Offline Christo

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2012, 12:10:02 am »
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For a headshot, you'd have to write the name backwards.

That's hilarious.  :mrgreen:
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Offline Frederick

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2012, 01:33:22 am »
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Sorry, I just felt sad that noone had answered yet, so I gave it a try.

:P Oh, I thought you were criticizing it as benefiting archers or something.

Offline Havoco

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2012, 01:54:56 am »
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Mixed feelings about it tbh. It seems too much like skyrim archery and I didn't like that very much. Although I am interested in seeing how that would work in M&B
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Offline Cup1d

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2012, 12:00:33 pm »
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First, All Archers have what might be called a "Stamina" or "Energy" bar.


Look at this - I found another Clausewitz...

I think we must test your «Stamina» system on infantry first. Remember those extrafast persons with 30+ kg weight of equipment and 150+ cm weapons that can jump over horse and run endlessly?

Offline peter_afca7

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2012, 12:19:33 pm »
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NERF ARCHERY

Offline TurmoilTom

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2012, 01:54:59 pm »
+1
For a headshot, you'd have to write the name backwards.

What if the name is the same backwards and forwards?

Offline Frederick

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2012, 09:43:41 pm »
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Look at this - I found another Clausewitz...

I think we must test your «Stamina» system on infantry first. Remember those extrafast persons with 30+ kg weight of equipment and 150+ cm weapons that can jump over horse and run endlessly?

I used the word Stamina bar but I don't want to give people the impression that this is about incorporating some realistic notion of stamina into the game. It could have more realistically been referred to as an arm strength bar. It's simply a way to signify the relationship between the power of a bow and the requisite strength needed to draw it, and how powerdraw would help conserve rather than reduce accuracy.


Offline zagibu

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Re: New Archery System Proposal
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2012, 11:12:11 pm »
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What if the name is the same backwards and forwards?

Well some people are just better targets than others. It's like this in real life, too:

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