Crossbow and Bowmen that have too much armor and being too much effective

[EyeBeat]

Pretty much what the topic says.

The main counter to bowmen and crossbowmen is shielders that spend a fuck ton of skill points into AGI.  Yet these guys are able to outlast 3 to 5 hits from a MW scimitar or broad one handed axe in my case.  How is this balanced?

I guess I am whining but I feel it is justified this time.

[Tzar]

You sacrifice HP and DMG for Speed and Maneuver.

Its called balance....

What annoys me is that as a shielder is that we cant have both since everything below 8 ath makes us pretty useless...


If they just reduced weight on shields so u dont have to go agi whore each time you wanna play shielder buuuu huuu..... 

[EyeBeat]

You sacrifice HP and DMG for Speed and Maneuver.

Its called balance....

They are supposed to sacrifice hp for ranged damage.

No.

[EyeBeat]

What annoys me is that as a shielder is that we cant have both since everything below 8 ath makes us pretty useless...


If they just reduced weight on shields so u dont have to go agi whore each time you wanna play shielder buuuu huuu..... 

No the balance team needs to rework WPF and make it mean something.  They know it will create ripples and earthquakes through out the community so they will not do it.

I can't wait till they do though.  I have been waiting patiently for it.

[Gristle]

As a hybrid crossbowman, I am also putting many points into Agility. 15/24 build with 8WM. I think both my 1 handed and crossbow wpf falls into the high teens / low 20s after considering my armor. I sacrifice a lot of points to make sure I can perform well despite my armor.

The problem with bowmen is that they require high strength for Power Draw, so they tend to have almost as much HP as a 2 handed strength crutcher. They can take some hits even with light armor, and can run faster since they're so light.

[Tears of Destiny]

Bowmen have too much armour? The hell you on about? If you take that many hits to kill an archer, you are either agi based, have terrible footwork, are fighting a master of footwork, and/or are fighting a high level STR archer who can't run away very well/Is well above level 30.

In the last few months, I have only seen Linden wear anything even remotely higher then leather.

[BADPLAYERold]

Archers don't have too much armour, but I do think they have too much health (Because alot of archers now go high strength for more PD which in return increases health). Not much you can do about that though.

[MrShine]

I don't know, archers have to keep their armor way low or they start to affect their wpf and gimp themselves.

I currently have 60 hp with a 15 str 5 if build which is probably higher than the average archer (most are either 18/21 [53hp] or 21/18 [56hp]).  I still get 1-2 shot frequently enough in melee, especially if they hit my head since I got without head armor.

[FRANK_THE_TANK]

I wear Green Corrazina Armor with Vaegir War Mask, Splinted Greaves with Spurs and Plate Mittens with my archer and honestly don't see my aim take a hit.

I can't run away like that so I have to get into a good old scrap. Which is when I do notice my wpf. Its pretty easy to out pace me with all that armour on so it can be a bit of a challenge. But still the armour keeps me alive for a while.

[Torost]

everyone knows that crossbowusers have it easy with no req, max armor and skills to match melee.. this is not news..

I am one of those you are talking about. I pump STR to get high powerdraw  9-10 , im slow to move slowe than most melee low ath.. so I just do the wpf tradeoff and use a lamelarvest and decent shoes and hat. I draw slower, my aim is worse.. but gawddamn I hit like a truck.. and that is the way it should be IMO.. if you miss.. well then you missed.. but When U hit.. it should hurt like hell.. 10 powerdraw rusbow + bodkins. This kind of playing lends itself more to taking high probability shots.. try to move so that many enemies are in the arrows flightcone , prioritizing engaging groups of tightly packed enemies.. larger targets.. like horses. The higher than proper armor is not for gihting melee.. I only got my shitty 0slothammer and all points are in WM and PD rest is converted to Attributes. It is for surviving other faster archers, crossbowmen.. and some protection when moving closer to the action.

[Gisbert_of_Thuringia]

I don't really get this, your title says something about archers and crossbowmen, who have too much armour and are therefore too efficient, but you immediately start talking about shielders who can stand a couple of hits or whatever ^^


What is it now you don't like?

Btw, the times of heavy armoured archers are over for ages now. You can very rarely see an archer with tunic over mail maybe (I know Inhumane used that sometimes and I as well tried it a couple of times), but you lose lots of damage with high armour and the time you can hold your drawn bow is drastically reduced.

So you better change your title to "heavy armoured crossbowmen", because they still get no disadvantage when using heavy armour. They do not lose damage or accuracy (or at least not much accuracy, but as far as I know it's nothing) and they can always hold their crossbow as long as they want.

So please stop with putting archery and crossbowery (does that word exist?^^) together into one pot.

Thanks

[Gurnisson]

So you better change your title to "heavy armoured crossbowmen", because they still get no disadvantage when using heavy armour. They do not lose damage or accuracy (or at least not much accuracy, but as far as I know it's nothing) and they can always hold their crossbow as long as they want.

You lose accuracy with increased weight. Been there.

[Tennenoth]

So... Let's say an archer has 7PD, for Eu it appears to be the average for an archer build. Now that means a base of 30 (please correct me if I am wrong) hp, plus 21 for the strength needed, that's a total of 51.

Moving onto the armour, you're more than likely going to be running around with somewhere between 25 to 40 body armour on average depending on your looms/personal style/weight to wpf preference, personally I have 27 + 9 making 36.

Putting that against probably not an average for 2 handers, but a build I know a bit better than others, one with 18 strength giving a total of 48 health with medium-ish armour in most cases to keep with the money balance, you're looking at Lamellar basic for example, that's 36 (dead on for what I have with fully heirloomed mail gauntlets and leather jerkin), then you will more than likely have better head armour etc and therefore you're looking at, let's say for arguments sake, 40+ armour.

So;

21 str archer: 51 health, 35 armour. (~40 max without wpf loss)
18 str 2 hander: 48 health, 40+ armour.  (Ability to go much higher with a hell of a lot more choice and versatility.)

I'm not sure what you're complaining about. We might have more hp if we're a heavier hitting archer but we're certainly effected more by having heavier armour and therefore it's really not worth it. Most melee builds that would acceptibly keep up with us are able to wear the same, and then on top of that, the investment that archers can't afford into Ironflesh will increase the hp further giving you, more than likely 5 to 15 more hp.

The numbers seem reasonable to me. Ranged ability for less versatility in melee and less defence.

[PieParadox]

My friend Ides runs around in a brigandine (47 body armour) and headshots people from across the map. She laughs at how archery is the best class... With her 18/18 build she has 6 WM, 6 IF, 6 PS, and 6 PD, with 80 wpf in 1h... She also says that shielders are laughable with their coverage- she shoots them in the head over their shield or shoots their feet unless they're using a nice slow huscarl... But don't take my word for it!

NARF ARCHARY

[MrShine]

I wear Green Corrazina Armor with Vaegir War Mask, Splinted Greaves with Spurs and Plate Mittens with my archer and honestly don't see my aim take a hit.

I can't run away like that so I have to get into a good old scrap. Which is when I do notice my wpf. Its pretty easy to out pace me with all that armour on so it can be a bit of a challenge. But still the armour keeps me alive for a while.

Go to the duel server and shoot in light archer armor, and then switch to your heavy stuff.  You'll notice the difference.

My friend Ides runs around in a brigandine (47 body armour) and headshots people from across the map. She laughs at how archery is the best class... With her 18/18 build she has 6 WM, 6 IF, 6 PS, and 6 PD, with 80 wpf in 1h... She also says that shielders are laughable with their coverage- she shoots them in the head over their shield or shoots their feet unless they're using a nice slow huscarl... But don't take my word for it!

NARF ARCHARY

Oh well then if Ides said it it must be true.
NARF ARCHARY