The only situation where lancers do better than 1h cav is while fighting HA/HX because the have a higher range, but except for that 1h cav has all of the advantages, therefore i think that the extra damage that 1h cav gets out of speed bonus should be reduced.
I don't know how you fight infantry, but the only classes i cannot kill in a 1v1 are polearmers with or awlpikes/lances
Also yeah, i can handle most other melee classes, ofc i'll take damage attacking them when they are aware of me, but while i can 1 or 2 hit them usually they need more hits to kill me or my horse.
You have the higher range, which means when you are behind them you can hit their horses easily, when i try to do this i get reared/slowed most of the time. Furthermore 90% of the 1h cav use 5 riding horses, which means we have no way to catch up to HA/HX, while lancers use faster & more maneuverable horses.
Also yeah, i can handle most other melee classes, ofc i'll take damage attacking them when they are aware of me, but while i can 1 or 2 hit them usually they need more hits to kill me or my horse.
Compared to lancer
Pro
Slightly higher damage
Better against turtles
Wider arc
Cons
Put your horse at risk with all your attacks
Shorter length
No couch
If one needs a nerf, they both deserve one. I've played a lot of lancer and 1h cav and they're both great at what they do. 1h cav is stronger at the start of the round when you can engage in mass melee when few people are paying attention, lancer is better to carry teams at the end since you can make stabs/couches without risk to you or your horse.
I guess a small nerf to all heavy horses (along with internal re-balance) would be better than stat-nerfs. Light cav is not considered op by people, except for maybe the arabian.
All speed bonuses are too high, not only cav. Having played some lance cav recently (still quite low level), calling 1H cav OP in comparison is just not true. These are different classes who can target different opponents. 1H cav can not outreach anything without taking damage, while lance cav can take on Awlpikers head on. I know Tyr is pretty good but saying he can take on most melee players as 1H cav is just talk, it doesn't happen. With the recent buff to 1H stab even an archer with a BSS can outreach the ACS every time. Ofc they might fail their hits, but that's true to all 1on1 situations. Both parties playing perfectly 1H cav will lose every single time. Lance cav on the other hand will either hit a 1H shielder or bump him, which makes even bumping to help teammates much much easier.Problem is 1h cav is Ninja which attacks you when not aware or fighting. This will be OK if one pass doesn't kill avg 21/18 build.
Strudog steamrolling the servers with a lance cav build while complaining how OP 1H cav is... wow...
Problem is 1h cav is Ninja which attacks you when not aware or fighting. This will be OK if one pass doesn't kill avg 21/18 build.
Add small ultra agile arabian horse enveloped almost completely in force field when rider blocks.
Every ninja must be in shadow of this combo which only relies on stealth when approaching victim.
Lancers are fine and 2h cav need some love!
Truth!!
Anyways, i think people hate on 1h cav since its ez mode with the shield...
You have to be a maniac to play 2h/lancer cav nowadays with all that ranged shit :D
Mustikki I think 2h wep with shield goes into 1h cav catagory because it uses 1h proficiency. There's also long iron mace you forgot to consider (recent patch allowed it to be used on horseback)
Learn to play 1h cav and maybe you will realize it is OP. The entire point of being on a horse is that you pretty much never have to fight the experienced infantry player that is aware of your presence, just go somewhere else and take 50% hp of the experienced infantry in full plate with 76 head and body armor who is currently distracted by 2 infantry trying to bash his skull in and the approaching cav from the other side. I think it was Mustikki yesterday who took over 50% of my hp while I had nearly max head armour in the game. The problem is the damage output which allows you to rack up so much kills so fast on players that can currently not fend you off..
Slightly higher dmg? 15/21 1h cav builds do more dmg than 21/15 lancer builds, its a fact ive tested it
Shorter Length? i think not the ghost range on the Arabian is ridiculous
Lancer puts his horse at risk as well , the new stabs make it hard for you not to lose health on your horse for either class.
you forgot when standing still 1h cav does a lot more damage then lancer cav, lanccer cav ned the speed while 1h don't.
Its been OP for a long time
if (weapon_type == 'two_handed' or weapon_type == 'polearm') and (has_shield or mounted):Which leads to another question - why 1h cav isn't affected by this?
raw_damage *= 0.85
(...)
That means it should be 0.85 * 0.9, or 23.5%
Why don't you fucking retards think about the amount of damage output 2h cav does first. As if a god damn morningstar don't 1 shot a full str build in plate armor anyway, lets be a retarded dev and add long iron mace that you can use on horseback, are you fucking kidding me? 35B damage with knockdown. 1h cav is not shit compared to 2h cav. Also who complains about fast horses anyhow, you should be praising them considering they get 1 or 2 shot anyhow by the fucking 100 archers on the server at any time. You fuck sticks know nothing about balance and continue to drive this shit game even further into the ground. Devs I got an idea, stop listening to these complaining retards, you have done it for too long already, and now look at what you did to the game. Fucked it
Hahaha. The thing is those 2hand weapon stats are a lie on horseback. They lose roughly 25 percent of the damage
So a +3 Longsword is actually around 30 cut when used on horseback. A +3 Arabian Cavalry Sword is 36 cut.
That's kind of fucking retarded. Then add using a shield on top of it and all that provides.
I don't get why that penalty exists in the first place. Not having a shield is a penalty in itself.
I don't really mind 1hand or 2hand cav, but the ACS is probably overpowered, and I only think 1hand cav is BS when I think about that weapon and how much damage it does, on top of its reach. Its way better than HBS or Longsword from horseback, which makes no sense.
If this isn't how 2H from horseback works please correct me(click to show/hide)
If nothing has changed, the weapon penalty is:23.5% not 30%. My bardiche would do 36 damage (same as arabian) at +3. Not bad, considering it's much cheaper and way better on foot.
if (weapon_type == 'two_handed' or weapon_type == 'polearm') and (has_shield or mounted):
raw_damage *= 0.85
if weapon_type == 'polearm':
raw_damage *= 0.85
if weapon_flags & itp_two_handed:
raw_damage *= 0.9
That means it should be 0.85 * 0.9, or 23.5%(click to show/hide)
I can't really see how 1h cav is that much better than 2h cav and vice versa.Its that magic shield forcefield, i cant even tell how many times i have been saved from dehorsing just by turning my shield and bam it magically protects my horse from hits.
Its that magic shield forcefield, i cant even tell how many times i have been saved from dehorsing just by turning my shield and bam it magically protects my horse from hits.
Not that effective against 2h or 1h hits but polearm stabs never get through to your horse if you block facing the pikeguy.
Only rearing the horse or stabbing the side near the back legs or horseys butt work if cav player has his shield up and is facing towards you.
23.5% not 30%. My bardiche would do 36 damage (same as arabian) at +3. Not bad, considering it's much cheaper and way better on foot.yea that 50% speed of 1h weapons....
Personally I prefer my Bardiche or Longsword over most/all 1handers while riding, ven when I got shieldskill. There are certain things that are just more powerful as 2h cav than 1h cav.
I get what you are saying. In general I am talking about all around ability. It costs less points for a 2h cav hero than it does 1h cav --- with a shield. Smoothrich none of those 1hers compare to a morningstar. Also arabian cav sword is pretty shit on the ground , so it should be stronger from horseback, compared to all the other ones that are more balanced. It is an all around shit 1h weapon for a good melee player. Morningstar on the other hand just simply fucking rapes. Just wear decent armor and you are fine. Now you see as if morningstars were not already the strongest weapon of any kind from horseback they went ahead and added and 2h long iron mace you can use from horseback. Mw it does 35b with knockdown, shit is cray. Also those 2h axes from horseback do a fuck ton more damage than any 1her can do from horseback. I am not saying 2h cav needs nerfed but im saying it definitely has more powerful weapons from horseback to use, if no one can see that, then they are fucking blind...
I think if we can have variable lance angle based on length for polearms, lancer cav aren't completely hopeless if they get stuck/stopped by enemy cav. They can switch to a shorter polearm while dropping their lance. I think lancers have it easier against 1h cav head on, it's only risky if the horse can tank the hit and you miss stunning the rider. Shorter polearms would also be more adept at archer hunting since you have better precision with your stab.
I think 2h cav has better power for less speed. The best 2h cav weapons can still be used with a shield and sheathed appropriately. I can't really see how 1h cav is that much better than 2h cav and vice versa.
Double post, but some 2h cav damage. Was going to test with a variety of weapons, but... need I say more? Thanks for letting me look into the lack of damage penalty, Smoothrich.Well, this explains why I always felt like I did more damage with my 2h weapons than 1h weapons, despite the damage penalty.
http://imgur.com/a/ft7TZ
+0 heavy bastard sword, 5PS, 141 effective wpf in 2h.(click to show/hide)
are you going to do something about 1h cav ?
actually, a full plate 1h cav can still kill every single enemy with only one hit.
How is that fair in term of balance ?
Bullshit.
Your "argument" (lol) means nothing unless you provide more information. What was the type of horse, and riding skill of rider, how fast was the horse going (full speed?), was the infantry moving to or from or perpendicular to the rider. What was the power strike of the rider, what was the type of weapon the rider was using? What was the type of armor the infantry had, how much iron flesh and strength? Where on his body did the infantry get hit?
IMO melee cavalry ranks like this (in terms of effectiveness): polearm (lancer), 2h, then 1h.
It's a little buggy. I thought 1h cav damage got reduced, but I was wrong.wat
How it is right now (tested on other horses on duel server):
5PS, ~160 effective wpf in 1h
Pure 2h: Bardiche: 46c
60 raw on foot, 48 raw on horse: 25% reduction??
2h/1h hybrid: Heavy bastard sword: 36c
With shield:
53 raw on foot (10% reduction), 58 raw on horse (no penalty)??
Without shield:
48 raw on foot and on horse (no reduction)
Pure 1h:+3 italian sword: 33c
54 raw on foot and on horse (no reduction)
Pure 2h too weak, glitchiness with 2h/1h split weapons, 1h too strong.
Made a proposal a week ago about adjusting damage so pure 2h is stronger, 1h weaker (...)2h cav is fine now, buffing it would be bad decision. Most people takes STR build as 2h cav, and believe me - my 8 PS Bardiche build deals slightly more damage than my 6 PS 1h cav Arabian Cav Sword build, which means basically 1 hit kill most people. If you increase damage of 2h cav, I would deal such a damage with 6-7 PS, it would be way too good class.
if you change speed stuff we will see killingmaschines 2h on arabian horse :mrgreen:That's only for 2h+shield. 2h without shield uses their full speed as far as I know.
@Mr. K
Please no? Right now, you get the full 41p with morningstar if you use it with or without shield on horseback (morningstar is 2h/1h). Even so, that sounds like a problem with the morningstar itself (or more importantly, bump slashing), since additional artificial nerfs would only hurt the other 2h/1h weapons.
I just don't get why 2H cav and 1H cav should be any different when they use the same exact animations... Unless using a heavier weapon like a big axe for example, but right now those are the ones that are useless and deal similar damage to a longsword with half the reach...2h on horseback lost its penalty back in 2012 in one of the old patches. Back then, I assumed it was only reduced instead of removed. Gameplay-wise, I think it's necessary to have tradeoffs for versatility to pure damage output, hence the 5% penalty without a shield and 12% penalty with a shield. Agree on the second part.
Some changes to the classes were supposed to be put into effect last patch. I had my doubts after a while and needed to confirm what the damage reductions were currently, so I performed more damage tests. That's where the discrepancy comes from when you heard from Tydeus.Swinging away at low speed/standing still is actually better as 2h cav than 1h cav in my experience. from my experience it's just plain less glances as 2h cav compared to 1h cav.
2h on horseback lost its penalty back in 2012 in one of the old patches. Back then, I assumed it was only reduced instead of removed. Gameplay-wise, I think it's necessary to have tradeoffs for versatility to pure damage output, hence the 5% penalty without a shield and 12% penalty with a shield. Agree on the second part.
Let's be honest here, though. In the grand scheme of things, those small damage reductions still allow these classes to deal great damage with speed bonus and holds multiplying damage by so much. My biggest aim is to make "cheap" tactics like swinging away when sitting still/low speed for 1h cav less viable and ease on the 1-shots without making better use of those factors.
They needed rando's constructive criticism back then.visitors can't see pics , please register or login
i acknowledge this is a dead thread, however
2h morningstar cav has always been and will always be one of the easiest ways to scoreboard. not hard to play at all, either.
another fun fact: as best I know, a 1h player has never won a major crpg tournament. plz update me if im wrong.
major crpg tournament
i acknowledge this is a dead thread, however
2h morningstar cav has always been and will always be one of the easiest ways to scoreboard. not hard to play at all, either.
another fun fact: as best I know, a 1h player has never won a major crpg tournament. plz update me if im wrong.
I saw bjord hold a ramp in a city siege vs uif - all alone against hords of DRZ and Greys, swashbuckling away with a spathovaklion and 1h nudges. It was insane and beautiful. one of his lives took at least 15 enemies...
so ya, 1h can be poewerful in the right hands for sure