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Strategus => Diplomacy => Topic started by: Tears of Destiny on October 19, 2012, 09:37:18 pm

Title: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 19, 2012, 09:37:18 pm





TRADING:

The NA Coalition trades with those who let us trade with them, or who have approached us or vice versa.
If you would like to openly trade with us, we welcome you to contact Garem, our NA Trade Diplomat.
See the following link for further details: Coalition Trade Deals (http://forum.meleegaming.com/diplomacy/coalition-trade-deals/msg623218/#msg623218)

MERCENARIES:
The NA Coalition freely and openly Mercs for anyone who approaches us in a friendly and reasonable fashion.
If you have noticed a pattern in past battles of us consistently mercing for a particular set of factions, that is because said factions routinely contact us and hire us.
If we are not mercing for you, it is simply because you have never contacted us.
There is no conspiracy here, it is a first-come-first-serve basis that favors those factions friendly enough to visit our TS regularly or contact us in other ways. If we keep mercing for a faction it is due to said faction deciding for whatever reason to keep hiring us for either battle participation via actual members or Strategus participation via actual parties.

RELATIONS:
We do not have at this present moment any enemies.
We have noticed a "trend" of people declaring war "for" other factions. Unless we specifically state something, then it is entirely your opinion and not our official stance. We state our own declarations of war, peace and trade. Any and all diplomatic talk is considered official if from an officer only, our members reserve the right to state their own opinions and do not in any way shape nor form represent the Coalition unless explicitly stated as such.

If you wish to be on friendly terms with us instead of distantly neutral, please visit our TS, contact our officers, and otherwise interact with us and let us know you want proper relations with us. We are friendly to those who are friendly to us, and neutral to those who don't communicate with us.

TERRITORIES:
We appreciate it if you contact us before entering our lands. If we regularly communicate with you or have communicated with you in the past and worked out a deal on guests, then that obviously takes precedence. If we are friendly then we allow you to enter without notice. Any army deemed unnecessarily large will be contacted for clarification if friendly.
We freely and without hesitation or warning may choose to use unauthorized guests as "battle training" or "entertainment." This is not a declaration of war, this is us giving you a proper welcome party for not contacting us in the first place as you are trespassing.

You can save a lot of trouble by simply talking to us once if you plan on regularly traveling through our lands.




Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: ArysOakheart on October 19, 2012, 11:06:03 pm
You're declaring war on the Free Peasants with that font color.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Smoothrich on October 20, 2012, 02:12:10 am
where's the part about NA Coalition being a Hospitaller vassal who takes orders directly from them to attack Hospitaller enemies on Neutral territory?
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Muki on October 20, 2012, 02:58:00 am
I wander were I please, ( Hope we can still trade :D)
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Blackzilla on October 20, 2012, 03:22:05 am
If you're neutral why was I informed that the reason I was attacked is because you are friendly with hospi's and that you wanted to help by attacking me? I've done nothing but defend you guys it almost every diplomatic arguments, I even did it last strat when we were at war! But, now, no I'm done defending you guys and always trying to keep you a good reputation with others. (Any spelling errors or mistakes are hard to correct due to me being on my phone :p) about your mercing, I came into ts and asked for mercs and was told you guys were only allowed to merc for hospi.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Smoothrich on October 20, 2012, 03:43:39 am
If you're neutral why was I informed that the reason I was attacked is because you are friendly with hospi's and that you wanted to help by attacking me? I've done nothing but defend you guys it almost every diplomatic arguments, I even did it last strat when we were at war! But, now, no I'm done defending you guys and always trying to keep you a good reputation with others. (Any spelling errors or mistakes are hard to correct due to me being on my phone :p) about your mercing, I came into ts and asked for mercs and was told you guys were only allowed to merc for hospi.

That's what happens when you become a Hospitaller vassal.  Every move of yours is dictated by the daddies upstairs, and you end up gladly attacking people who are your friends outside of Strat just to further Hospitaller imperial aims.

Anyone who has been, is right now, or could be in the future be considered an enemy of Hospitallers, needs to not ever trust a word by any Fallen player, only go in their territory to attack their traders and destroy their s and d, never merc for Coalition/Fallen armies, and hey if you're a neighbor of them, maybe you should just wipe out their fiefs while you're at it.  They are thinking the same thing about you as we speak.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Garem on October 20, 2012, 04:59:18 am
Well, shit... I had a response, but I haven't heard back from Grandmaster High Lord Peppovitch to get it approved.

brb, Smoothbabe.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Smoothrich on October 20, 2012, 05:48:32 am
Well, shit... I had a response, but I haven't heard back from Grandmaster High Lord Peppovitch to get it approved.

brb, Smoothbabe.

Just pointing out to any clans and players who might get the wrong impression from this thread about Coalition diplomacy.  You are in no way neutral and are fully a Hospitaller ally in their war efforts and should be treated as such.

Unless that attack on Blackzilla and refusal to merc for clans fighting Hospitallers was a big misunderstanding, but I don't see anyone disputing that.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: To Kill A Dead Horse on October 20, 2012, 05:51:27 am
Probably should have warned you guys that i was going to buy some goods from your fief, but this should be the last time I stop in Ayyike for trade. (Within a few weeks anyways)
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 20, 2012, 06:05:26 am
Unless that attack on Blackzilla and refusal to merc for clans fighting Hospitallers was a big misunderstanding, but I don't see anyone disputing that.
I'll give this a quick go before you put your usual trollish spin on things Smoothbabe :wink:


He (blackzilla) was attacked as a target of opportunity and because we were being paid by an employer for such things (See above clause "either battle participation via actual members or Strategus participation via actual parties. Note the "via actual parties" bit.

Naturally we will refuse to merc against a current employer as that would be considered backstabbing, yes? Those clans who were kind enough to approach us first will naturally fall under our "first come first serve" policy, as everytime a battle starts there are literally 5 different factions who immediately within minutes of initiating said battle ask us for help, so those who ask later fall short especially if one of the aforementioned parties negotiates for a longer-term deal.

So there you have it, we attacked Blackzilla due to previous mercenary negotiations (in this case an actual party instead of a roster) and refused his ask for help due to already being hired, and it would be backstabbing and terribly dishonest for us to attack an employer who is still employing us and being friendly, right?

Note that in cases of conflicts of interest, we bow out entirely, there were a few Hospitaller VS Shogunate incidents that we avoided entirely due to two separate parties negotiating for future merc work for us, in this case Hospitaller as well as The Empress negotiated for our mercs for future conflict and in several cases not just that one we refused both sides due to us not wanting to fight an employer using another employer (Raiding an employer's caravans though is something else entirely, as Merc work =/= free passage rights).

There you have it, simple and easy terms. I do find it terribly amusing your claims that we are vassals of Hospitaller as that simply is not true, they just have the common courtesy of being friendly with us and communicating regularly with us and thus we are friendly back. We also don't wish the destruction of all of our neighbors, I'm not entirely sure how anyone is to believe that either.

Have a lovely day Smoothbabe, forgive me if I ignore future propaganda responses if they contain more outlandish claims such as vassalage or total-world-domination claims (If we really are seeking the destruction of our neighbors then we are doing an absolutely terribly lazy job of it  :lol: :lol: :lol: ).

And again, remember that our individual members may say things based on their own opinions or perspectives which are not official Fallen stances  :wink:  Any clan that regularly communicates with us is never confused on our stance on things, perhaps if you would like, Hero Party can start talking to us regularly in proper meetings? I openly invite any and all clans to start lines of communication <3


EDIT:
Probably should have warned you guys that i was going to buy some goods from your fief, but this should be the last time I stop in Ayyike for trade. (Within a few weeks anyways)
Yes indeed! Thank you for notifying us, and we greatly prefer if you use NEW TADSAMESH!
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Garem on October 20, 2012, 06:21:59 am
Smooth, you amuse me. Don't let my laughter keep you from your posting. Please continue.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Smoothrich on October 20, 2012, 08:17:10 am
Employer, friend, vassal, basically the point here is the same.  If Hospitallers consider you an enemy, so does Fallen.  Consider them hostile if you are involved in any of the current wars on the "wrong" side.  Not with a declaration of war or with bad diplomacy, just unexpected sneak attacks on other people's territory.

Also, the diplomatic situation on EU and NA is quite clear.  Hospitallers are part of the Crusader/Coalition bloc, have been since last strat.  Funny how Fallen are now with the sides (Templar/Hospitallers) that owned them so bad at the start too, but that's how it is now.  And it'd be foolish to pretend there is no collaboration with the NA and EU sides, even if they are both too busy getting owned to do much :D
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 20, 2012, 08:22:41 am
Oh Smoothbabe you adorable you, how I missed your soft trolling in our threads. <3 Good to see you back.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Garem on October 20, 2012, 08:30:31 am
We're respectable businessmen now, see? We sell good gear. Come see it on the Town Centre market, Tadsemesh!

http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-general-discussion/na-tadsamesh-buy-sell-strat-gear-no-sd-limit/
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Visconti on October 20, 2012, 08:58:26 am
If you guys are being "employed" to attack someone, you should list your employer as allied and whoever your being paid to attack as an enemy.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 20, 2012, 09:04:04 am
If you guys are being "employed" to attack someone, you should list your employer as allied and whoever your being paid to attack as an enemy.


I'll keep that in mind for future employment that involves more then mere roster support or raiding lone caravans out in the middle of nowhere, but as of right now we don't have an enemy.  :wink:  If someone hires us for actual warfare and actual attacks besides a single caravan for a one-time gig then I shall do so  :lol:
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on October 20, 2012, 12:59:52 pm
OOC:
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: jtobiasm on October 20, 2012, 01:09:11 pm
I guess smoothrich doesn't understand the communication bit or first come first served.
Underlined just for you smoothrich.
MERCENARIES:
The NA Coalition freely and openly Mercs for anyone who approaches us in a friendly and reasonable fashion.
MERCENARIES:
There is no conspiracy here, it is a first-come-first-serve basis that favors those factions friendly enough to visit our TS regularly or contact us in other ways.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Smoothrich on October 20, 2012, 01:50:46 pm
Your thread has nothing about going out of your way across the map to attack caravans in neutral territory for the sake of other clans, its just about merc agreements.  No one really cares about mercing, but you can't pretend to be a neutral party in the war.  You're working for/with Hospitallers, no need to dress it up in funny talks.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Blackzilla on October 20, 2012, 03:47:56 pm
Tobias, thing about your mercing crap is I've asked a day in advance for you guys to merc for Hero party, only to be told you are not mercing for our side in this war. So you might wanna fix that mercing description.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Goretooth on October 20, 2012, 05:39:21 pm
It's almost like smoothrich is demanding fallen merc for hero_party against hosp. yet i only asked nicely and they show up  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Muki on October 21, 2012, 12:54:22 am
Fallen archers are the best archers :D

Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tydeus on October 21, 2012, 01:13:42 am
If you guys are being "employed" to attack someone, you should list your employer as allied and whoever your being paid to attack as an enemy.
You don't get to say you're "neutral" with a faction after attacking them simply because you were paid as a mercenary to do so. That makes you a temporary ally of Hosps at the very least. When the attack is on neutral territory though, that's as close to a declaration of war as you can get. Diplomacy isn't so convenient. I shouldn't be surprised though, you are called the "Naive" for a reason. In strat too, for dfc's short existence we mostly merc'ed for lljk both in their battles and with our own troops. No one looked at us as being anything other than an lljk ally while we did so because doing anything else, would be absolutely ridiculous.

"We currently have a vested interest in your destruction and have previously attacked you to fulfill a contract as mercenaries to take out your caravan, but we're still neutral with you" Yeah, right...
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Garem on October 21, 2012, 03:51:30 am
Tobias, thing about your mercing crap is I've asked a day in advance for you guys to merc for Hero party, only to be told you are not mercing for our side in this war. So you might wanna fix that mercing description.

???

We talked for quite some time before the battle during the confusion (I don't deal with our merc contracts), Blackzilla. Why didn't you mention this at a time when this was relevant?

I've never been asked by hero_party to merc. I don't disfavor gaining XP at no cost. Why would I have turned that down?

As Joe Biden would say, this is "a bunch of stuff".
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tydeus on October 21, 2012, 04:37:09 am
Hmm...

Maybe I missed the post, but isn't this the thread that first publicly stated the "NA Coalition" as a merc group? If that is indeed the case, you can't really even argue that anything you've done in the past was that of a merc group. You're not mercing if you're only available to one faction. Furthermore, I would find it quite absurd that this group would expect to be treated as mercenaries for actions prior to becoming a merc group.

Your actions are that of a vassal, not of a merc group, regardless of what you might actually be. I suggest keeping that in mind.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 21, 2012, 05:22:52 am
You're not mercing if you're only available to one faction
I agree, and lucky for us we are not available to only one group and never were exclusive. I'm not entirely sure what Blackzilla was told (or thinks he heard) but we certainly are not exclusive, and he should make sure that he only talks to officers in the future and not normal members who may be misinformed or trolling.  :wink:


We are currently mainly doing our own thing right now, and were working for multiple factions at once not "one exclusively." Hero_Party was rejected at that specific moment only due to a conflict of interest.


I'm not sure who told you that we were only available for Hospitaller, considered we did jobs or favors for others too, heh. My apologies that a few of our members apparently trolled you witless. If you would like to ask for our roster support or what-have-you, feel free to contact an officer (zero responsibility if you don't our member are allowed their opinions  :wink:  Free country and all that god bless NA fuck yeah) and we'll sign up if we like what we hear and there is no conflict of interest! <3


Your actions are that of a vassal, not of a merc group, regardless of what you might actually be. I suggest keeping that in mind.


TIL that Vassals acceptable actions include attacking a former employer's vassals, arguing with them, unarthorized S&D usage and a few other violent acts. Man, I don't know what vassals you are used to but I suggest you raise higher standards.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Muki on October 21, 2012, 05:26:02 am
You're not mercing if you're only available to one faction.

They been mercing for me too... But my faction not big enough to cause drama :c
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 21, 2012, 05:30:38 am
They been mercing for me too... But my faction not big enough to cause drama :c


We merc for many people at once (5 iirc), it just seems that poor Blackzilla was trolled senseless or really did not hear correctly (Funny thing is Not a single officer remembers speaking to him) and that Hero_Party is mighty offended... And has weird standards for vassals.


I need to keep in mind that in the future, some people may take rejection so harshly and think because we refuse one job we are exclusive for life  :lol:
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Blackzilla on October 21, 2012, 06:58:50 am
???

We talked for quite some time before the battle during the confusion (I don't deal with our merc contracts), Blackzilla. Why didn't you mention this at a time when this was relevant?

I've never been asked by hero_party to merc. I don't disfavor gaining XP at no cost. Why would I have turned that down?

As Joe Biden would say, this is "a bunch of stuff".

When i came into Ts and ask for mercs, and was rejected and told that they were not mercing for hero party in this war. I went back to Hero party and repeated what I was told, thus us never coming back for mercs.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Garem on October 21, 2012, 07:11:23 pm
When i came into Ts and ask for mercs, and was rejected and told that they were not mercing for hero party in this war. I went back to Hero party and repeated what I was told, thus us never coming back for mercs.

And who said this? The only two people who are approved to choose who will receive our help are Daemon and Tears, and on top of that only Oohillac and I are allowed to confirm or deny that we will do such (and personally, I only deal with trading so I normally wouldn't know anyways). We have structure in the Fallen.

Otherwise, what you heard was the personal statement "I don't want to fight for Smoothrich" for which I don't blame them. I'm not sure why you choose to do so, either. There are plenty of well-led clans out there.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Blackzilla on October 21, 2012, 07:17:52 pm
It was ooholliac who told me that you where not fighting for us in this war.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Smoothrich on October 21, 2012, 07:51:08 pm
And who said this? The only two people who are approved to choose who will receive our help are Daemon and Tears, and on top of that only Oohillac and I are allowed to confirm or deny that we will do such (and personally, I only deal with trading so I normally wouldn't know anyways). We have structure in the Fallen.

Otherwise, what you heard was the personal statement "I don't want to fight for Smoothrich" for which I don't blame them. I'm not sure why you choose to do so, either. There are plenty of well-led clans out there.

Just stop lying dude lol, you're friends/allies with hospitallers, fallen leaders have literally confirmed this to people who asked and so have your actions, but its more convienent now to backpedal and pretend you aren't so your heads aren't next on the chopping block.  Have some honor.

#onlyevilallowed
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Garem on October 22, 2012, 12:33:52 am
lol

okay

#fullofshit
#oilmoney
#gettingbored
#kkthxbai
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: oohillac on October 22, 2012, 12:38:02 am
We've merced for several factions often in the past, and are on good terms with these factions.

An impromptu "hey can you merc for hero party" to me isn't an official, polite question to, and discussion with, one of our diplomats.

As I explained to you, this is my first strat, and I am mostly jobshadowing Garem, Tears, and SmilingDaemon.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Muki on October 22, 2012, 03:59:38 am
Seems my trade right been revoked, do you treat all your traders this way?
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=949
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 22, 2012, 04:07:09 am
Seems my trade right been revoked, do you treat all your traders this way?
http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=949 (http://c-rpg.net/index.php?page=battlesupcoming#!?page=battledetail&id=949)


Considering this is the first time we attacked an authorized trader, it is safe to say that we don't treat all traders in such a way.
I'll look into what happened and make sure things are righted out, likely a mix-up somewhere and someone jumping the gun.


Sincere apologies.


EDIT: We'll throw the battle.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Boss_Awesome on October 23, 2012, 06:40:01 pm
To anyone else reading: Remember, when Smoothrich talks about Fallen, its 100% lies every time. Thank you for ignoring the liar.

If even half of what Smoothrich says about us is true then we would be nearly twice as cool as we actually are.
Title: Re: NA Coalition Diplomacy Update
Post by: Smiling Daemon on October 23, 2012, 09:19:16 pm
We've merced for several factions often in the past, and are on good terms with these factions.

An impromptu "hey can you merc for hero party" to me isn't an official, polite question to, and discussion with, one of our diplomats.

As I explained to you, this is my first strat, and I am mostly jobshadowing Garem, Tears, and SmilingDaemon.

I would like to explain and maybe rectify some misconceptions. NA Fallens are pretty lazy. We'll merc for you when you hop on our TS and say "hey we have a battle in xxx time, come and merc for us" to which point we'd say "yeah that sounds like fun, lets do this!!!". Hospitallers have active members who come on our TS during NA time asking for mercs so we join them. I have yet to have Hero Party come and ask us to merc so we figured we weren't invited or just don't know about it. Granted, I'm not on TS all the time but when I'm there, I have yet gotten an invite. So in the end you're giving us too much credit for being lazy.