cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

Title: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

There was discussion about exact game mechanics on irc and people have pretty scattered info on what works how so I figured out we should gather stuff together. Just post on this thread the stuff I'm missing or have written wrong and I'll collect it!

For a more throughout guide to the game see http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html. This thread is aimed only at collecting as precise data on mechanics as possible in a very condensed format for easy checking of specific things.

Stats
Strength gives 1 hp and 1/5 damage per point (thanks to Tydeus)
Agility gives approximately 1/4 or 1/5 of one point of athletics in run speed (thanks to Gurnisson for pointing it out and WaltF4 for mechanics)

Skills
- Power strike gives 8% melee damage per point
- Power draw gives 14% damage with bows per point
--> Only bow difficulty + 4 points of power draw will be taken to account. For example using nomad bow (difficulty 3) with 9 power draw would result in only 7 power draw being effective (MrShine).
- Power draw REDUCES your wpf by (14*PD)-((1.4)^PD) (Thanks to Lt_Anders for pointing it out). This is calculated before the weight wpf reduction. See http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/archer-build-41378/msg646130/#msg646130
- Power throw gives 10% damage with thrown weapons per point
- Power throw REDUCES your wpf by 13 per point. This is calculated before the weight wpf reduction. There's a possibility this is wrong and the real formula is something closer to the power draw one.
- Ironflesh gives 2 hp

- Shields increases shield "force field", speed and reduces incoming damage to the shield by 8% (not sure if it's before shield's damage reduction or after)
- Horse archery reduces accuracy penalty of mounted ranged combat by 10% and reduces damage penalty of throwing weapons and bows while horseback by 1.9% per point (10 points being equal to 99% of non-mounted damage)
- Weapon master gives you a set amount of profiency points to spend. First point gives 30, second 40, third 50 and so on.
- Riding increases horse speed, manouverability and acceleration.

Maximum level of a skill is it's base attribute / 3, meaning that at level 18 of strength Power Strike can be 18/3 = 6 at most. An exception to this is Horse Archery, which requires 6 skill per level, so at 18 agility you could have just 18/6 = 3 levels of it.

Skills are distributed between stats like this:
Strength: Power strike, Power throw, Power draw, Ironflesh
Agility: Shield, Riding, Athletics, Weapon master, Horse archery

The difficulty attribute on items determines a minimum level of strength to use them unless they are shields, bows or throwing weapons. For shields the minimum level of shield skills determines if you are able to use the item, for bows this is power draw and for throwing weapons this is power throw.

(Source for bonus damage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKfuS6gfxPY&feature=player_embedded#!)

HP determination
Every character has base hp of 35. In addition to this you will gain:
+ 1 hp for each point of strength.
+ 2 hp for each point of ironflesh.

Ranged accuracy
Weapon profiency has a big effect on accuracy as does the weapon accuracy stat. In addition every point of damage reduces accuracy by 1 and thus even though Long bow has the highest accuracy rating, it is actually the most innaccurate bow due to high damage.
(Source: _Sebastian_)


Armor weight
Armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)
Effective armor weight = 2*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 4*hand armor weight - 10
(Source: WaltF4, updated 31.7.2012 based on the new formula)

This means that every point of armor weight with helmet weight multiplied by 2 and glove weight multiplied by 4  over 10 reduces your wpf by 1%. Or the same put other way, any effective armor weight from the above equation reduces your wpf 1% per 1 point.

Effective WPF
There are three possible factors reducing your wpf from what is listed on the character sheet. First reduce your wpf by 13 for each point of power throw, then reduce your wpf by 14 for each point of power draw and then remove 1% of remaining wpf for each point of effective weight. For effective weight, see armor weight chapter above.

The same mathematically:
(wpf - 13*pt - 14*pd) * (1 - effective weight / 100)

Movement speed
Movement speed depends on agility, athletics and weight.

- Moving backwards reduces movement speed by roughly 34%
- Rain reduces movement speed by roughly 7.8%
- Blocking reduces movement speed by roughly 15%

Along with this carried items reduce movement speed.

Quote from: WaltF4 on January 14, 2012, 01:36:27 am

My testing (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html) suggests that the engine uses a single, total weight for the running speed calculations. This weight includes all items your character has on them: worn, sheathed, or unsheathed. Holding a weapon further reduces running speed based on the weapon length and weight. Holding a shield does not change running speed relative to wearing that shield, unless your character is holding one shield while wearing another shield; in which case, there is an enormous reduction in running speed.

(Source and more information: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html)

Maintenance

There's a chance every minute for items you're wearing to break up resulting in them getting reduced stats until they are repaired. By default items will automatically be repaired when you have enough money. On average player can hold gear worth of roughly 50,000 and break even (Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8400.0.html). This is a long term average though, and you should have a considerable reserve of money before trying to run around in gear of that price.

For weaponry wpf dictates the breaking chance while other items have a static chance which supposedly is somewhat higher for arrows and bolts. For melee weapons highest melee skill is chosen, so for example using a long spear with 1 polearm wpf while having 120 wpf in two handed uses the 120 wpf for breaking. For ranged this kind of mechanic isn't in effect, and bow breaking chance in determined by archery wpf etc.

Tears of Destiny at http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html says that:

Quote

1wpf is about 11% [chance of breaking] where as 140 is 2.5% [chance of breaking] so it does make a difference.

Damage types
Weapons in Mount & Blade do a fixed amount of damage per swing. Armor damage reduction has a random element in it though. The effect of this is that at low armor damage variance is low: static 10%. At extremely high armor this variance can go as high as 90%ish. Next graph will show average of 40 damage attack against different armor levels. X-axis is amount of armor and Y-axis is amount of damage done after armor.

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The next graph shows minimum and maximum damages used to calculate the above graph.

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To compare, below are the same graphs with 20 raw damage instead of 40.

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Following is at 40 base damage:
- Pierce is about 5% weaker than blunt from 40 to 55 armor.
- Between 60 and 75 armor pierce is about 15% weaker than blunt.
- At 80 armor the difference is only around 7%.

- At 15 armor cut is about 11% weaker than blunt
- At 30 armor cut is about 24% weaker than blunt
- At 45 armor cut is about 37% weaker than blunt
- At 60 armor cut is about 45% weaker than blunt
- At 75 armor cut is about 50% weaker than blunt

Following is at 20 base damage:
- Pierce is about 10% weaker than blunt from 20 to 30 armor.
- Pierce is about 20% weaker than blunt from 35 to 40 armor.
- Pierce is about 15% weaker than blunt from 45 to 55 armor.
- After that the difference in damage jumps around between 25% and 67% depending on rounding, but in general the damage amounts for both weapons are ridiculously low already.

- At 15 armor cut is about 21% weaker than blunt
- At 30 armor cut is about 43% weaker than blunt
- At 45 armor cut is about 50% weaker than blunt
- At 60 armor cut is about 83% weaker than blunt
- At 70+ armor cut glances always

From this we can fairly safely assume this:
- Blunt is superior damage type. It deals the most damage and glances least easily. Especially at lower armor levels pierce has very close to the same damage output though.
- The higher the dealt base damage goes, the less pierce and blunt differ from each other. At 60 damage pierce is slightly better than blunt against medium tier armor and at above it becomes better in all categories. At 100 damage pierce is 7% better at 80 armor, 4% better at 40 armor and mariginally better at low armor levels.
- The higher the dealt base damage goes, the less cut proportionally suffers compared to pierce and blunt (45% weaker than blunt at 60 damage at most, 35% at 80)

Simplified:

Damage types with below 60 raw damage:
blunt > pierce > cut
Damage types with above 60 raw damage:
pierce > blunt > cut

Blunt is best if you have weak damage potential or expect to hit a lot with negative speed bonuses. Pierce is best if you have high damage potential. In reality though the difference at 100 base damage is very minor unless you're hitting very heavy armor.

The Excel spreadsheet used for this is available at: http://nikita.tnnet.fi/~elmokki/crpg-damage.xls


(Source and exact math at: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23344.msg341355.html#msg341355).


Weapon modifiers
- Crushthrough has a chance of ignoring block on overhead strikes. This depends on strength and weapon weight. There is also a random element.
- Knockdown has a chance to knock down enemy on swings. This depends on weapon mass, but does contain a significant random element.

Quote

The mechanic for knockdown is (rand(0.0, 1.0) < min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0) * 0.015) according to Paul (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,20938.msg299772.html#msg299772). How this kind of equation works is that the higher the right side value is, the higher the chance of success is. Percentual chance of success is the right side of equation.

This means two things affect knockdown chance. Weight of the item and raw damage of the swing. If we assume a hit does at least 40 raw damage, which is very likely for a decent hit from almost any weapon with knockdown with 5 PS or so, the knockdown chance boils down to min(item_weight * 0.33, 2.0) * 0.15. This means that the maximum weight for this calculation is 6. This results in the knockdown chance being 0.0495 * item_weight, meaing 4.95% chance of knockdown per item weight (this could be rounded to 5% like Paul did, but 0.33 isnt 1/3 for exact chance). This allows tabling some weights:

Weight 1.5 (Hammer, Club): 7.425%
Weight 2.5 (Flanged Mace, Iron Mace, Goedendag): 12.375%
Weight 3 (Warhammer, Long Hafterd Spiked Mace): 14.85%
Weight 4.5 (Long Iron Mace, Bar Mace: 22.275%
Weight 6 and above (every crushthrough weapon): 29.7%

The effect of damage is a multiplier to this chance, min((raw_damage - 20.0) * 0.5, 10.0). At 40 or more raw damage the multiplier is it's maximum (10), resulting in our assumed values above. Attacks below 20 raw damage cause the multiplier to be 0, meaning 0% chance of knockdown. Between 20 and 40 raw damage each point of raw damage increases the multiplier by 0.05. This means that the knockdown chance calculated above goes down by 5% per point of raw damage below 40 (for example 38 damage attack with a warhammer means 14.85% * 0.9 = 13.365% chance of knockdown). As said above though, in most practical cases most of these weapons will deal at least 40 raw damage with a decent hit, so that part of the equation is fairly meaningless.

- Unbalanced makes stopping a swing once it's started impossible.
- Bonus against shields gives 100% extra damage to shields and 10% to constructs (source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html)


Melee damage
Damage before armor is calculated by:

Code: [Select]

hold_bonus * (WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_strike*0.08+1.0)+strength/5.0
Implications:
- Each power strike point is 8% extra damage
- 10 wpf is equal to 1.5% damage. You have a 15% damage penalty at 0 wpf compared to base weapon damage. At 100 wpf there is no penalty or bonus to damage.
- 5 strength gives 1 damage that isn't affected by modifiers.
- Holding your melee strike before releasing it gives you a damage bonus.
--> Holding for less than 0.5 seconds gives you a damage bonus of 5% per 0.1 seconds.
--> Holding for 0.5 to 0.6 seconds gives you a 25% damage bonus
--> After 0.6 seconds the damage bonus will diminish 3% per 0.1 seconds until it's 10% after 1.1 seconds of holding weapon down.
- If you use polearm with a shield or from horseback, you get -27.75% damage penalty
- If you use twohander with a shield or from horesback, you get -23.5% damage penalty if that twohander can be used with a shield (ie has onehander animations). If not, the penalty is -15%.
- Both cases above also have some sort of a speed penalty.

(Thanks to Tydeus for the exact mechanics of hold bonus and CaptainQuantum for the melee mechanics. They can be found also at http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168722.msg4090900.html#msg4090900)

Melee reach
Animations for different weapon types have different effects on weapon reach.

Quote

Weapon lengths themselves aren't really comparable between weapon types. Animations add or reduce from the effective length of an attack. So in effect if you for example compare a thrust of a 120 length polearm (Bec de Corbin) and a 120 length twohander (Great Sword) they will NOT effectively reach the same lengths. Due to the way polearm is held polearm is from 15 to 61 units shorter depending on animation. This animation effect on reach is very noticeable especially with one handed weapon stabs. Even a short one handed sword can outrange a twohander or a polearm with a thrust in some cases. It's worth a note that polearms in general have longer options than twohanders to compensate for the shorter reaching animations.

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80 (This may be slightly wrong with the new stab animation)

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

(Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html)

Melee swing speed
Weapon swing speed is affected by weapon speed rating and weapon profiency. Agility does not seem to have effect on swing speed. According to WaltF4's tests 100 wpf results in approximately ~6.5% faster swings. It is likely ranged shooting speed works the same way

Quote from: WaltF4

To put this in perspective, a level 30 character with 3 agility, no weapon master, and 110 polearm proficiency would attack ~5% slower than a level 30 character with 27 agility, 9 weapon master, and 180 polearm proficiency if both characters were to use a speed 94 polearm. The absolute difference in time per attack between these two characters would be ~0.06 seconds. This is significantly less than the 12% difference in attack speed one would expect if agility was providing the purported 0.5% reduction in attack speed per point and the difference of 70 proficiency was ignored.

Quote from: WaltF4 on January 14, 2012, 01:36:27 am

Only armor weight appears to matter for attack speeds (The wpf reduction effect -Elmokki). Holding a shield does not change the time taken to complete an attack. However, the delay between blocking an attack and beginning your own attack may be different if you block with a weapon compared to a shield. I would assume that the difference depends on the weights and speeds of both the attacking and blocking weapons and the shield.

For rough calculation of your actual attack speed you can try to approximate a swing timer for wpf 1 from WaltF4's graph below and multiplying that by (1 - wpf / 100 * 0.065).
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These numbers, however, are for a full swing from start to end. Actual combat in Mount & Blade involves hitting your enemy before the swing is completely finished, so all you can guesstimate from these really is comparable speed to other wpf-weapon setups.

(Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2531.0.html, WaltF4)


Ranged
- Bow raw damage before armor is calculated by:

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0- Crossbow raw damage is a tad bit simpler:

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = crossbow_damage + bolt_damage- Throwing raw damage is similiar too:

Code: [Select]

Weapon_damage*(throwing_wpf*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_throw*0.1+1.0)+strength/5.0
Mounted throwers and bowmen (not crossbowmen) also will have their damage multiplied by

Code: [Select]

(horse_archery*0.019 +0.8)
(Thanks to CaptainQuantum for mechanics)

Implications for non-crossbows:
- 10 wpf is equal to 1.5% damage. You have a 15% damage penalty at 0 wpf.
- Maximum power draw bonus - obviously only for bows - is for (bow difficulty + 4) points of the skill, each point giving 14% damage bonus
- Throwing gains 10% damage per power throw
- All three forms of ranged damage gain 1 damage per 5 strength. This damage is not modified by any damage modifiers like power throw, power draw or wpf.
- Without horse archery a mounted thrower or bowman does 20% less damage. Each point of horse archery reduces this penalty by 1.9% (percentile units). At 10 HA the damage is 99% of normal.
- Rain reduces bow damage by 10%
- Strength gives 1/5 points of damage not affected by any negative or positive modifier

Implications for crossbows
- Rain reduces crossbow damage by 25%.

Crossbow shield penetration
For a crossbow to penetrate a shield it's damage will have to be above 30 + 3*(shield's armor). What this means is that without taking speed bonus (you running towards the shooter) into account a loomed arbalestman at close range will probably shoot through shields with less than 20 resistance (30 + 20*3 = 90 damage). At under 15 shield resistance (30 + 15*3 = 75 damage) you start to seriously risk getting your shield penetrated by a bolt.

(Source: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,19324.msg275435.html#msg275435)

Hit locations
Hitting someone in the head with a melee weapon gives 20% bonus damage or 75% with a ranged weapon. Hitting someone in the calf or thigh gives a 10% damage reduction, though you can still hit someone in the foot for 100% damage. All of these are applied at the absolute end of the damage calculation as well.
(Thanks to Tydeus)

Shield slot usage
The slot amount of shields is not shown on the website, but there is a general rule for it. Shields with weight 7.5 or below take 1 slot and shields with weight above 7.5 take 2 slots with the exception of Board Shield. Alternatively all shields that cost less than 4400 gold and the bucklers are less than 2 slots.

Skip the fun
This feature can be used once per week on a character. Only one character that STF has been used on can exist per account. It makes the character level 30, gives him 10,000 gold and removes ability to trade in market or respec. Only way to remove STF status is to remove the character. Even if you do remove character, you still do have to wait until the 7 days have passed to make a new STF character.

All thine work has payed off...
...has absolutely no effect in cRPG. It gives you 3 crafting profiency to every item you were wearing in Strategus and removes 1 crafting profiency from every other item you had profiency in.

Can Strategus gold be turned to cRPG gold?
You can transform 1 strategus gold to 10 crpg gold in towns, or you could trade with other players for possibly better rates.

The feature is disabled right now, so you have to trade with other players.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: MrShine on January 07, 2012, 01:24:14 am

Bow -> last I recall power draw stops providing its 14% boost once your power draw is >4 over your bow's PD requirements.  So for example if you are using a tatar bow (requirement 4) you will get a 14% damage boost from 5, 6, 7, and 8 PD, but anything over that will do nothing.

- I don't know the formula for this, but I think you get wpf penalties when you pass some PD threshhold... there is a point where I believe power draw increases your accuracy, but once you get past that point it actually makes you draw more slowly and be slightly less accurate.  No proof, sorry.

Armor weight: I think the magic number might be 7 weight, not 7.5.  Only quote I can find is like 6 months old so things may have changed since then but from WaltF4 (in a Gafferjack thread):

Quote

armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)

and

effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7

But yeah you are right about head armor having an effective weight of * 3 what you see and gloves having an effective weight of *2 as far as wpf stuff is concerned.

Damage types: calculator makes it appear that blunt > pierce > cut assuming numbers are equal, however I think that may be incorrect (but have no proof).  I think pierce has a greater armor penetration value than blunt, while blunt has a better chance to avoid glancing than pierce.

Long and short of it about how I THINK they go is:  If you want to avoid glancing on someone, blunt is best (then pierce, then cut), whereas if you want to actually do damage with a swing through heavy armor pierce is best (then blunt, then cut).  Of course blunt weapons generally have knockdown so pick your poison.

Crushthrough -> chance is based on strength and weapon weight.  There is some random chance there too, I don't know the formula but you could probably seach the forums for it.

Melee - Again I wish I could find hard proof but I think your number .9 seconds is slightly off... I do agree I seem to recall holding a certain amount of time will give a greater damage bonus, while holding longer than that still gives a bonus but a smaller one.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: isatis on January 07, 2012, 01:54:37 am

for people interested to it, here the discussion from IRC

(click to show/hide)

18:26] == Isatis [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:27] <Inkompetent> Completely depends on mood imho
[18:27] <Inkompetent> Just try different stuff and see what you like
[18:27] <fez_> i started a cav and hes low level but seems pretty cool so far
[18:27] <Inkompetent> You can make an alt and do Skip The Fun on it to insta-level to 30 and try another build
[18:27] <fez_> oh really
[18:27] <Inkompetent> ( Although you can only have one skip-the-fun-character at the time )
[18:28] <fez_> but my main guy stays?
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Cav is hard. Very hard. But also very powerful if you are good at it
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Yes
[18:28] <Inkompetent> You can have loads of characters
[18:28] <fez_> i heard skip lvl charecter cant buy at market is this true
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Just make a new character in-game, play a round, and it should appear for you on the website
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Only main character can use the market
[18:28] <Gurnisson> Cav hard
[18:28] <Gurnisson> I lol'd
[18:28] <Inkompetent> Which can be a skip-the-fun character
[18:29] <fez_> what do u mean main only, i have several charecters that buy stuff...confused
[18:29] <Inkompetent> Well, considering 2h-swords outreaches lances, a lot of the existing cav is very experienced and will fuck you up, and jinxing ranged isn't that easy
[18:29] <Inkompetent> Marketplace and Equipment is different things
[18:30] <Inkompetent> All characters can buy gear
[18:30] <fez_> oh
[18:30] <Inkompetent> Only the main character can use the Market-feature though, trading with other players
[18:30] <fez_> do you have insta level guy?
[18:30] <Inkompetent> Yes.
[18:30] <Inkompetent> I have 5 character
[18:30] <Inkompetent> *characters
[18:32] <Inkompetent> One samurai polearm/archer hybrid, one polearm-dude, one 1h/shield/thrower viking, one crossbowman, and one knight with 1h/shield/lance/horse
[18:33] <fez_> no 2h huh
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[18:34] <fez_> dam 2h mauls get me 1 hit every time with good armor on
[18:34] <Gurnisson> fez_, you have to spam maulers
[18:34] <Gurnisson> If you use 1H, use a lot of left swings
[18:34] <fez_> to slow to spam
[18:34] <Gurnisson> And don't try to block overheads
[18:35] <@Mylet> hmm, I usually just evade and use right swing to outreach
[18:35] <fez_> full plate 2h would be fun to play
[18:36] <Gurnisson> I usually use right swing first
[18:36] <Gurnisson> Then I will always force him to block first
[18:36] <Gurnisson> Then I start a spam of overheads and left swing, only blocking side swings
[18:36] <Gurnisson> Holding attacks from time to time to get high damage output
[18:37] <fez_> what does hold attack do?
[18:37] <Tydeus> ruined fort map sucks =/
[18:37] <@Mylet> warband slope movement sucks
[18:37] <Tydeus> truth
[18:38] <Gurnisson> fez_, holding attacks for 0.9 seconds gives x1.5 of normal damage
[18:38] <Tydeus> otherwise the map would be fine for the most part
[18:38] <Gurnisson> Holding it for longer makes it go down to x1.2, and it will stay there
[18:38] <fez_> how the heck can u time .9
[18:39] <fez_> wow
[18:39] <Gurnisson> Well, you have to take release it on gut feeling
[18:39] <Gurnisson> Anyway, if you hold your swing, it will always deliver more damage than a non-held one
[18:40] <Gurnisson> But if you hold swings too often, you'll probably get spammed by your opponent
[18:40] <@Meow> fez_, information overflow yet? :D
[18:40] <fez_> cool, i wish the game came with a manuelto helps noobs like me
[18:40] <fez_> nah
[18:40] <@Meow> i think there is a manual somewhere :D
[18:40] <fez_> im a vet gamer just new to this
[18:40] <@Meow> for warband that is
[18:40] <@Meow> mainly it's playing a lot and get into the combat controls
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[18:41] == bagge [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:41] == nreal [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[18:41] <fez_> right, i lack combat skills for sure
[18:41] <fez_> but someday my name will be sung...lol
[18:42] == Harald [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:43] <Tydeus> you sure?
[18:43] <Tydeus> <Gurnisson> Holding it for longer makes it go down to x1.2, and it will stay there
[18:43] <Gurnisson> Pretty sure, yes
[18:43] <Tydeus> I think optimal (50% bonus) is .5 sec
[18:43] <Elmokki> it'd make sense to write a thread with all the mechanics of every stat etc
[18:44] <Gurnisson> Hm, a bit unsure on the hold time
[18:44] <Elmokki> of course streamlined ones for damage etc
[18:44] <Gurnisson> But it stays on 1.2
[18:44] <Elmokki> but animation reach bonuses etc
[18:44] <Elmokki> simple information on each class
[18:44] == CoWorm [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[18:44] <Elmokki> stuff like that
[18:44] <Elmokki> hell, I have no clue what exactly str and agi do apart from str giving "some" hp
[18:44] <fez_> yea someone needs to write that, i want to know differences in str and agil bonuses at high levels
[18:45] <fez_> then u can make a better choice in picking say 15/21 or21/15
[18:46] <Elmokki> well
[18:46] <Tydeus> 1/5 str is +1 damage
[18:46] <Elmokki> in those cases what matters is the skills it enables
[18:46] <Tydeus> aside from the damage and the hp
[18:46] <Elmokki> agi and str bonuses themselves are low
[18:46] <Tydeus> I don't think str does anything else of importance
[18:47] <Elmokki> because I mean, 21/15 or 15/21 themselves are very similiar builds if you choose 0 skills
[18:47] <Tydeus> err str/5 += damage
[18:47] <Tydeus> not 1/5
[18:47] <Elmokki> but 7 ps, 5 athletics vs 5 ps, 7 athletics are different
[18:47] <Tydeus> 5 str = 1 damage
[18:47] <Tydeus> I complicated that quite a bit
[18:47] <fez_> so no diff in 15 str or 19 str if done in counts of 5
[18:48] <Tydeus> actually there would be
[18:48] <fez_> oh but i read str also helps mobility with heavy armor
[18:49] <Gurnisson> It doesn't
[18:49] <Tydeus> well it depends on the rounding that is done
[18:49] <Gurnisson> Fez_ different in 15 strength and 19 strength is that you can get more skill points in strength skills, and you'll also have 4 more hp
[18:49] <Gurnisson> Like
[18:50] <Tydeus> pretty much
[18:50] <fez_> wiki states str does help mobility are they wrong
[18:50] <Gurnisson> With 15 strength you can get 5 power strike, 5 ironflesh etc, with 18 or 19 you can get 6
[18:51] <Elmokki> well, hp bonus too
[18:51] <Elmokki> doesn't str give some hp?
[18:51] == Mustikki [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[18:51] <Elmokki> or is it just if and levels
[18:51] <Tydeus> +1 hp per str
[18:51] <Tydeus> " and you'll also have 4 more hp"
[18:52] <Elmokki> didn't read closely enough :P
[18:53] <Elmokki> what does agility give?
[18:53] <Elmokki> some runspeed and swingspeed?
[18:53] <Gurnisson> Runspeed
[18:53] <Gurnisson> A set number of agility gives the same as one athletics
[18:53] <Gurnisson> iirc
[18:53] <Gurnisson> Dunno how many though
[18:53] <fez_> "rduces the penalty to movement speed associated with the weight of items you are carrying "direct quote from wiki
[18:54] <fez_> oops str reduces
[18:54] <Gurnisson> Hm, never heard of that
[18:54] == Shik [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout]
[18:55] <fez_> http://wiki.c-rpg.net/index.php?title=Attributes_%26_Skills#Strength
[18:55] <fez_> read str on that link
[18:56] == Shik [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[18:56] <Elmokki> how much damage was each power x
[18:56] <Elmokki> 10% for strike?
[18:59] == Tor_ [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[19:05] <Elmokki> http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,23607.new.html#new
[19:05] <Elmokki> oh, there's a wiki
[19:05] <Elmokki> then that thread is fairly pointless :D
[19:05] <karasu> ther armor weight
[19:05] <karasu> its the oposite afaik
[19:06] <karasu> 3x head, 2x gloves
[19:06] <Elmokki> ah yeah, it probably is
[19:06] <Elmokki> anyway, gonna go sleep now
[19:06] <karasu> at least in archery is
[19:08] == LLJK_Chingao [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[19:13] <@Mylet> 'all thine hard work payeth off'
[19:14] <@Mylet> yay my alt crafts better pitchforks -.-
[19:15] <karasu> :3
[19:16] == Salminen [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[19:27] <FRANK_THE_TANK> I had it on an alt ages ago but... well...
[19:27] <FRANK_THE_TANK> I thought ATHWPO could only happen on your main?
[19:27] <FRANK_THE_TANK> :(
[19:27] <Tennenoth> It can happen on all characters you ahve
[19:28] <Tennenoth> but it only means something on your main
[19:28] <Tennenoth> because only your main is allowed to play strategus, where it is useful
[19:41] == el__ [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[19:41] == Canary [[email protected]] has joined #mount&blade-crpg
[19:42] <el__> is it ok to sell strat gold for crpg gold?
[19:45] <@Meow> yes, there also is a 10:1 system
[19:45] <@Meow> in case you are getting offered less
[19:45] <@Meow> as in 1 strat gold 10 crpg gold
[19:45] == Spleeno [[email protected]] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
[19:46] <el__> wanna buy it? :D
[19:47] == fez_ [[email protected]] has quit [Signed off]
[19:48] <FRANK_THE_TANK> I just wish crafting wasn't so bloody random.
[19:48] <FRANK_THE_TANK> Like a probability bar
@chadz
@cmp
@Espu
@Fasader
@Meow
@Mylet
@Q
BADPLAYER
bagge
BcB
Canary
CaptMorgan
Coy_
Dehitay
el__
Elmokki
equity_
Everkistus
Fawni
Frank_
FRANK_THE_TANK
Gurnisson
Harald
Inkompetent
Ipsum
Isatis
Jacko
karasu
Khorin__
Kriel
Kriel_
LLJK_Chingao
LLJK_GOATEE_
Maniakki
Noctivagant
Ozin
Phazh
Roska-
Rumaahinen
Sekra
Serfonz
Shik
Smoothrich
Tears
Tennenoth
Tydeus
Tyrell
Ujin
Vibe_
Violent
Yoshibloke
ZyloRage
^30mc_HRE

have fun reading this thought...

also I'll add some waltF4 thread for sources just wait

walt on running, a compelling essay: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html

walt on repair a money making best-seller: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,8400.0.html

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tydeus on January 07, 2012, 03:23:11 am

Quote from: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

Melee
- Holding your strike without releasing for 0.9 seconds gives you a 60% damage bonus. After holding for 0.9 seconds this bonus will start to drop to a 20% bonus.

Not quite.

I got this from one of cmp's posts on the TaleWorlds forums.

Code: [Select]

if hold_time >= 1.1:
    hold_bonus = 1.2
elif hold_time >= 0.6:
    hold_bonus = (1.1 - hold_time) * 0.6 + 1.2
elif hold_time >= 0.5:
    hold_bonus = 1.5
else:
    hold_bonus = hold_time + 1.0

raw_damage = weapon_damage * (max(1.0, min(hold_bonus, 2.0)) * 0.5 + 0.5)
The last line is important and often missed. The max damage bonus you can get from a hold would be from a .5 second hold with a bonus of  1.25 so 25% damage.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tears of Destiny on January 07, 2012, 07:34:18 am

I think I have all this already, but will happily steal to add more for the guide if I see anything new.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 11:58:54 am

Thanks for the info, especially Tydeus. That was very enlightening.

I also remembered that there were exact knockdown mechanics somewhere in the forum and found them with search.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Grumbs on January 07, 2012, 12:23:55 pm

Theres some good info in this thread: http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,9245.0.html

I'd like to know if this info is still up to date though (from equip section in that thread):

Quote

weapon length: The base length of a weapon, and thus effecting reach. Due to how the weapon is held, note that your reach may be effected (such as a two hander being held on the hilt while a pike is held more towards the middle. The following is a rough example (figures slightly different with new animations) of how reach differs from weapon type to weapon type:
Amount of reach added to weapon length due to animation.

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

I know 2 hand thrust animation was changed in the last month or so. I'd like to know if you still get ~ +61 reach on stab compared to polearms and if there are other changes (swing length etc).

I'd also like to know how where you hold the weapon affects its overall effective reach. Because you hold the sword from the hilt but a Bec de Cobin further up. For eg could 120 length of the bec act like a 100 2 hander? Then if you stab with it would a 100 length sword have 180 reach (due to +80 from animation), and the bec have 119 (100 due to held position + 19 for animation).

At what point is the length of the polearm comparable to the length of a 2 hander due to animation? You see to hold the polearms quite differently depending on the actual weapon. How do 120 length swords compare to the longer polearms in reach due to animations?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:02:57 pm

Quote from: Grumbs on January 07, 2012, 12:23:55 pm

I'd also like to know how where you hold the weapon affects its overall effective reach. Because you hold the sword from the hilt but a Bec de Cobin further up. For eg could 120 length of the bec act like a 100 2 hander? Then if you stab with it would a 100 length sword have 180 reach (due to +80 from animation), and the bec have 119 (100 due to held position + 19 for animation).

At what point is the length of the polearm comparable to the length of a 2 hander due to animation? You see to hold the polearms quite differently depending on the actual weapon. How do 120 length swords compare to the longer polearms in reach due to animations?

The listed reach bonuses from animations are the different grips affecting the reach, so bec is 120 + 19 for stabs while a 100 reach sword is 100 + 80. Bec and Great Sword are both 120 reach. In effect Great Sword is always longer due to the different grip/animations. Depending on the attack this difference is 15 to 61. Bec, however, still can BARELY outreach a great sword if the bec user is stabbing and the great sword user is using any other attack than stab. This is very barely though - bec stabbing is 2 to 6 units longer than great sword's non-stabs.

The only exception to this rule are the few weapons using other animations than that of their class (2h mode langes messer stab and flamberge stab use polearm stab animation and get the considerably shorter reach)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 07, 2012, 01:23:03 pm

I will cut in and share my knowledge of the damage mechanics since I have wanted to do so for a very long time. Warning: this is not going to be short.

Firstly raw damage:

(click to show/hide)

Bow Damage (Not mounted)
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*((powerdraw,difficulty+4)*0.14+1)+strength/5.0

Math.pow= Power function, this is "melee_damage_speed_power" or "missile_damage_speed_power" (in the case of ranged) raised to the power of speed bonus.
From the module.ini each of these are defined as:
missile_damage_speed_power = 1.9;
melee_damage_speed_power = 2.0;

(powerdraw,difficulty+4) is the powerdraw but if it is more than 4 above the bows difficulty then this will return power draw + 4.

Bow Damage (Mounted)
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*((powerdraw,difficulty+4)*0.14+1)*(HA*0.019+0.8)+strength/5.0

Crossbow
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)+strength/5.0

For the 3 above Weapon_damage is equal to Bow damage + arrow/bolt damage.

One handed
{(hold_bonus*0.5+0,5)*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_strike*0.08+1.0)}+strength/5.0

Two handed/polearm without shield/mounted is the same as one handed.
With shield/mounted the polearm equation gets multiplied by 0.85 and the two handed equation is multiplied by 0.9.

Throwing (Not mounted)
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_throw*0.1+1.0)+strength/5.0

Throwing (Mounted)
Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*(power_throw*0.1+1.0)*(horse_archery*0.019 +0.8)+strength/5.0


Hold bonus is defined by the following:
if hold_time >= 1.1
   hold_bonus = 1.2
elif hold_time >= 0.6:
   hold_bonus = (1.1 - hold_time) * 0.6 + 1.2
elif hold_time >= 0.5:
   hold_bonus = 1.5
else:
   hold_bonus = hold_time + 1.0

Also rain modifiers:
For crossbow your weapon damage will be multiplied by 0.75, for bows by 0.9

There may be a few mistakes and please tell me if you see something obvious. I also posted in another thread about how armour is handled but I seem to have made a mistake for it and I cannot see where so I will post that when I find my error. I hope you find this wall of text and Mathematics useful.

Thanks to Sebastian who pointed out a few errors.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on January 07, 2012, 01:53:28 pm

Quote from: CaptainQuantum on January 07, 2012, 01:23:03 pm

Weapon_damage*Math.pow*(WPF*0.01*0.15+0.85)*((powerdraw,difficulty+4)*0.14+1)

The right damage calculation for archery is;

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0
I show you an example with my build;

(34 + 2) * (159 * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (10 * 0.14 + 1) + 30 / 5.0 = 100.176p

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 07, 2012, 01:59:29 pm

Quote from: _Sebastian_ on January 07, 2012, 01:53:28 pm

The right damage calculation for the archery is;

raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0

Ah yes of course, sorry did not elabourate on this enough. I will correct this. I was also not sure whether the strength/5.0 was for all or just melee, so I will add that in aswel.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Teeth on January 07, 2012, 02:09:23 pm

Doesn't rain slow movement speed of both players and horses with 20% or something? No idea what the exact number is

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 07, 2012, 02:16:32 pm

Quote from: SgtTeeh on January 07, 2012, 02:09:23 pm

Doesn't rain slow movement speed of both players and horses with 20% or something? No idea what the exact number is

It slows people down yes, but I do not know the numbers, I only deal with the damage mechanics since that is all I have needed. However the approximate number is in the main post.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 02:36:14 pm

Thanks for the bow damage calculations. Anyone have idea how it's for melee? (EDIT: Disregard that, skimming is bad)

Anyway, regarding running speed in rain:

Quote from: WaltF4

Rain increased run times by 8.5% + or - 0.5%. Fog has no effect on run time. Interestingly, the weather you observe has limited significance on the actual weather effect you will experience. I think this is the result of the weather effect on running (and I would assume crossbows) being determined when the map loads but the graphical effects being determined when a player joins the server.

distance/speed = time
distance/x*speed = 1.085*time

distance/1.085*time = x*speed

x = 1/1.085 = ~0.922 = ~7.8% speed reduction in rain according to that.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Grumbs on January 07, 2012, 02:41:12 pm

Quote from: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:02:57 pm

The listed reach bonuses from animations are the different grips affecting the reach, so bec is 120 + 19 for stabs while a 100 reach sword is 100 + 80. Bec and Great Sword are both 120 reach. In effect Great Sword is always longer due to the different grip/animations. Depending on the attack this difference is 15 to 61. Bec, however, still can BARELY outreach a great sword if the bec user is stabbing and the great sword user is using any other attack than stab. This is very barely though - bec stabbing is 2 to 6 units longer than great sword's non-stabs.

The only exception to this rule are the few weapons using other animations than that of their class (2h mode langes messer stab and flamberge stab use polearm stab animation and get the considerably shorter reach)

Thanks. Thats assuming the original info is accurate I guess. I wonder how that is determined? Was the thrust length changed recently for 2 handers? I remember the way you stabbed changed a bit but not sure if the actual length went down

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 04:24:54 pm

Added stuff on raw damage determination and a lot of stuff about damage reduction from armor. Any stuff related to swing speed, bow draw speed and running speed would be nice along with exact mechanics of crushthrough would be very welcome. Though obviously anything not on the post is nice.

Quote from: Grumbs on January 07, 2012, 02:41:12 pm

Thanks. Thats assuming the original info is accurate I guess. I wonder how that is determined? Was the thrust length changed recently for 2 handers? I remember the way you stabbed changed a bit but not sure if the actual length went down

The animation was changed, but I have no idea how the animation lengths were originally measured or if the animation change affected the reach at all. I would bet, though, that if the reach changed, the change was very minimal.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tydeus on January 07, 2012, 06:32:40 pm

if hit_bone == head:
    if weapon_type != 0:
            effective_damage *= 1.75
    else
            effective_damage *= 1.2
elif hit_bone == calf or hit_bone == thigh:
    effective_damage *= 0.9

Hitting someone in the head with a melee weapon gives 20% bonus damage or 75% with a ranged weapon. Hitting someone in the calf or thigh gives a 10% damage reduction, though you can still hit someone in the foot for 100% damage. All of these are applied at the absolute end of the damage calculation as well.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jagdpanther on January 07, 2012, 10:35:48 pm

OMG THIS THREAD IS SEXY.

Seriously, good work!     :D

And when can weapon speed be calculated? I would really like to know that.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 11:53:39 pm

Quote from: Jagdpanther on January 07, 2012, 10:35:48 pm

OMG THIS THREAD IS SEXY.

Seriously, good work!     :D

And when can weapon speed be calculated? I would really like to know that.

I don't think there's a formula for that, but now that you mentioned I think I've seen graphs of empirical data.

EDIT: Found them

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 09, 2012, 02:41:53 am

Quote from: CaptainQuantum on January 07, 2012, 01:23:03 pm

With shield/mounted the polearm equation gets multiplied by 0.85 and the two handed equation is multiplied by 0.9.

This would seem to be wrong.

Code: [Select]

   if (weapon_type == 'two_handed' or weapon_type == 'polearm') and (has_shield or mounted):
      raw_damage *= 0.85
     
      if weapon_type == 'polearm':
         raw_damage *= 0.85
     
      if weapon_flags & itp_two_handed:
         raw_damage *= 0.9

Over at http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168722.msg4090900.html#msg4090900 would make it seem that the penalties are 27.75% for poles and 23.5% for twohanders.

I haven't touched Python in years and even back then it was very little. Am I wrong on the syntax? Not having {} to go with confuses me, but from the whole snippet it'd seem that's the only way it makes sense.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Espu on January 09, 2012, 11:20:57 am

Stickied.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Kekn on January 09, 2012, 11:33:21 am

Quote from: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

Armor weight
Armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)
Effective armor weight = 3*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 2*hand armor weight - 7
(Source: WaltF4)

This means that every point of effective armor weight over 7 reduces your wpf by 1%. So 130 wpf with 8 armor weight is actually 0.99 * 130 = 128.7 wpf

Just to get rid of any misunderstandings; not armor, it's armor weight :)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 09, 2012, 04:17:07 pm

Quote from: Guard_BD_kekn on January 09, 2012, 11:33:21 am

Just to get rid of any misunderstandings; not armor, it's armor weight :)

Thanks. Updated it. To be precise though, it's not even armor weight, it's effective armor weight with the modifiers to gloves and helmet :)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: CaptainQuantum on January 09, 2012, 07:31:14 pm

Quote from: Elmokki on January 09, 2012, 02:41:53 am

This would seem to be wrong.

Code: [Select]

   if (weapon_type == 'two_handed' or weapon_type == 'polearm') and (has_shield or mounted):
      raw_damage *= 0.85
     
      if weapon_type == 'polearm':
         raw_damage *= 0.85
     
      if weapon_flags & itp_two_handed:
         raw_damage *= 0.9

Over at http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168722.msg4090900.html#msg4090900 would make it seem that the penalties are 27.75% for poles and 23.5% for twohanders.

I haven't touched Python in years and even back then it was very little. Am I wrong on the syntax? Not having {} to go with confuses me, but from the whole snippet it'd seem that's the only way it makes sense.

Yes sorry, I didn't check that properly, this is also the same as C code, *= means take what it was before and multiply it by this. So for 2h its 0.85*0.9 and for polearm it's 0.85*0.85.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Stabby_Dave on January 11, 2012, 12:33:14 am

Question about the armour weight thing.

I have:

Head Weight: 1.6*3 = 4.8
Body Weight: 4.4
Hand Armour: 0.7*2= 1.4
Foot Armour: 0.8

= 11.4

Do i then take 7 away from that? If so, my effective armour could be 14 before i start to get a wpf reduction?

Also, would be nice to see what effect shields and sheathed weapons have on speed (both run speed and swing speed).

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 11, 2012, 09:58:57 am

Quote from: Stabby_Dave on January 11, 2012, 12:33:14 am

Question about the armour weight thing.

I have:

Head Weight: 1.6*3 = 4.8
Body Weight: 4.4
Hand Armour: 0.7*2= 1.4
Foot Armour: 0.8

= 11.4

Do i then take 7 away from that? If so, my effective armour could be 14 before i start to get a wpf reduction?

It's phrased badly there since the effective armor weight already has - 7 in the equation. Basically any armor above effective armor weight is -1% per 1 weight. So basically 11.4 - 7 = 4.4, you already take 4.4% penalty.

Quote

Also, would be nice to see what effect shields and sheathed weapons have on speed (both run speed and swing speed).

It would indeed, but I'm far too lazy to conduct tests like WaltF4 did :)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on January 13, 2012, 09:31:42 pm

wpf and strength dont effect crossbow damage.
The damage is still the same... it doesn't matter how much wpf or str.

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = crossbow_damage + bolt_damage
This is the damage reduction formula for crossbows if it's raining;
raw_damage = (crossbow_damage + bolt_damage) * 0,75

But for bows the damage reduction is not at the end of the formula;
raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) * 0.9 + strength / 5.0

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 13, 2012, 10:38:04 pm

Quote from: _Sebastian_ on January 13, 2012, 09:31:42 pm

wpf and strength dont effect crossbow damage.
The damage is still the same... it doesn't matter how much wpf or str.

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = crossbow_damage + bolt_damage
This is the damage reduction formula for crossbows if it's raining;
raw_damage = (crossbow_damage + bolt_damage) * 0,75

But for bows the damage reduction is not at the end of the formula;
raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) * 0.9 + strength / 5.0

Thanks for the crossbow correction.

The bow damage thing I knew of, but it wasn't very clearly on the first post so I changed it a bit.

Thanks.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: WaltF4 on January 14, 2012, 01:36:27 am

Quote from: Stabby_Dave on January 11, 2012, 12:33:14 am

Also, would be nice to see what effect shields and sheathed weapons have on speed (both run speed and swing speed).

My testing (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html) suggests that the engine uses a single, total weight for the running speed calculations. This weight includes all items your character has on them: worn, sheathed, or unsheathed. Holding a weapon further reduces running speed based on the weapon length and weight. Holding a shield does not change running speed relative to wearing that shield, unless your character is holding one shield while wearing another shield; in which case, there is an enormous reduction in running speed.

Only armor weight appears to matter for attack speeds. Holding a shield does not change the time taken to complete an attack. However, the delay between blocking an attack and beginning your own attack may be different if you block with a weapon compared to a shield. I would assume that the difference depends on the weights and speeds of both the attacking and blocking weapons and the shield. 

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Stabby_Dave on January 14, 2012, 11:38:53 pm

Ah thanks for that walt!

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 15, 2012, 12:48:30 pm

Added crossbow shield penetration mechanic. It was mentioned somewhere so I dug the forums for the formula.

Also added WaltF4's post before as a direct quotation.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: RamsesXXIIX on January 22, 2012, 11:04:49 am

I'm not sure if this has been addressed, bear over with me if it has:

I asked Paul about speedbonus for ranged, after I read the Warband manual and there seemed to be a confliction. Here's the message:

Quote from: Paul on November 07, 2011, 12:28:21 pm

The manual is wrong. Cmp got the speed bonus code and motivated by my previous tests that suggested a fuck up, we found the part where it fucks up.

Code: [Select]

            if missile:
                    missile_speed_vec = missile.get_direction()
                   
                    if (receiver_agent_no >= 0):
                            missile_speed_len = (receiver_speed_vec - missile_speed_vec).length() # sqrt(x²+y²+z²)
                    else:
                            missile_speed_len = missile_speed_vec.length()
                   
                    damage = pow(missile_speed_len / missile.speed, module_settings.missile_damage_speed_power) * missile.damage * attack_rec.unknown_value
           
This is the code for the speed bonus for projectiles. The problem is the last line.
It basicly should be damage =  (combined_impact_speed / starting_speed ) ^ missile_damage_speed_power * damage

Important here is that starting_speed should be the normal speed of the projectile if thrown from a standing position. Purpose of the speed bonus thingy is in the end to compare combined impact speed(which includes movement speed of the thrower at the beginning of the throw, friction&gravity loss/gain and relative movement speed of the target) with the normal throwing speed at point blank.

Should it be that the projectile is half as fast as normally because of whatever reason(friction, throwing upwards, target running away) then damage should be about quartered. If double speed on impact, damage is about multiplied by 4. The speed bonus thingy reflects the kinetic energy concept(Ekin = 1/2 m * v^2) with its square relation between speed and energy, although not exactly because missile_damage_speed_power is 1.9 in the module.ini and not 2.

So if I throw at someone right in front of me I should do 100% normal damage if thrower and target have both the same relative speed. This is where it fucks up. starting_speed in the code is DOES include the movement speed of the thrower at the beginning of the throw because they it is easier to do code wise. And this make the damage behave physically incorrect.

Example:
Lets say thrower and target are so close to each other and at the same height level that friction loss and gravitational gain/loss for the projectile speed are neglectible. With that only the relative speed should have an impact on damage.

final_damage = damage gain * damage =(combined_impact_speed / starting_speed) ^ 1.9 * damage
damage_gain = (combined_impact_speed / starting_speed) ^ 1.9 = ((v_missile+v0_thrower+v_target)/v_missile)^1.9

v_missile is the velocity of the missile only depending on power throw and the item stat of the weapon. It is constant if we assume the no friction and gravity loss&gain thingy.v0_thrower is the movement speed of the thrower when he throws and v_target is the movement speed of the target. Let's assume all speed vectors have the same direction to be able to use them as scalars.

Should be(real world):
damage_gain_rw = (combined_impact_speed / starting_speed) ^ 1.9 = ((v_missile+v0_thrower+v_target)/v_missile)^1.9

Done in code(Warband):
damage_gain_wb = ((v_missile+v0_thrower+v_target)/(v_missile+v0_thrower))^1.9

Case 1: Target and thrower do not move.
damage_gain_rl =  ((v_missile+0+0)/v_missile)^1.9=1
damage_gain_wb =  ((v_missile+0+0)/(v_missile + 0))^1.9=1

No damage gain or loss in both cases.

Case 2: Target is moving towards the thrower at missile speed(v_target = v_missile). Thrower is not moving.
damage_gain_rl =  ((v_missile+0+v_missile)/v_missile)^1.9=2^1.9= 3.7
damage_gain_wb =  ((v_missile+0+v_missile)/(v_missile + 0))^1.9= 3.7

Almost quadrupled damage in both cases. No problem.

Case 3: Thrower is moving at missile speed(v0_thrower=v_missile) towards the target during the throw. Target is not moving.

damage_gain_rl =  ((v_missile+v_missile+0)/v_missile)^1.9=2^1.9= 3.7
damage_gain_wb = ((v_missile+v_missile+0)/(v_missile + v_missile))=1.9= 1^1.9=1

Here the problem shows for the first time. While in real life the damage should be about quadrupled in Warband it is the same as if the thrower is not moving.

Case 4: Mounted thrower is moving at half missile speed AWAY from the target(v0_thrower=-v_missile/2). Target is chasing the thrower on horseback also with half missile_speed(v0_thrower=v_missile/2).

damage_gain_rl =  ((v_missile-v_missile/2+v_missile/2)/v_missile)^1.9=1^1.9= 1
damage_gain_wb = ((v_missile-v_missile/2+v_missile/2)/(v_missile - v_missile/2))^1.9=(v_missile/(v_missile/2))^1.9=2^1.9=3.7

This is the biggest fuckup. While of course logic tells us that if thrower and chaser move at the same speed the damage should be normal too, it's different in Warband. There you can get a big damage bonus thanks to the nature of the implementation.

Cmp too lazy to fix though.

TL:DR: fucked up code on speedbonus for ranged, as such you get a bonus to damage if your enemy is moving towards you, and a negative to damage if they are moving away from you, regardless of your own movement.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: KaffeKalle on January 24, 2012, 07:46:00 pm

If someone could explain the mechanics behind instaswitching weapons, and the whole "kick, swing, parry"-moves Ive seen people do that would be appreciated. Cause I can kick, swing, but kicking, swinging and parrying in one move seems to me like something undoable. Also the guys able to switch weapons and parrying instantly must be doing something other than using mousewheel to switch, cause when I do that there is a 1s delay or so before I can use the new item for parrying....

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Ronin on February 21, 2012, 11:40:52 am

Maybe it's numpad keys? Maybe it's a bug, or they just act fast somehow.

Quote

Following is at 20 base damage:
- Pierce is about 10% weaker than blunt from 20 to 30 armor.
- Pierce is about 20% weaker than blunt from 35 to 40 armor.
- Pierce is about 15% weaker than blunt from 45 to 55 armor.
- After that the difference in damage jumps around between 25% and 67% depending on rounding, but in general the damage amounts for both weapons are ridiculously low already.

Is this correct? Cause, as I know blunt uses %25 armor ignore and pierce uses %50 armor ignore for some other mods. Also, there is a military hammer secondary mode. The blunt mode has more damage (blunt) and speed while the pierce is lesser damage and speed. It seems totally useless now.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on February 25, 2012, 12:26:33 pm

Quote from: Ronin on February 21, 2012, 11:40:52 am

Is this correct? Cause, as I know blunt uses %25 armor ignore and pierce uses %50 armor ignore for some other mods. Also, there is a military hammer secondary mode. The blunt mode has more damage (blunt) and speed while the pierce is lesser damage and speed. It seems totally useless now.

Play with the damage calculator yourself since now it uses up to date formulas to see how it goes. I also had a thread a while back which examined secondary damage modes and found pretty much all of those utterly useless apart from poleaxe (which honestly had a VERY niche use anyway)

Pierce and blunt have their strengths in different areas and are both considerably better than cut, but unless you can reach really high damage amounts, blunt will beat pierce or at the very least be equivalent. We're talking about high strength build archers or polearms here, other than that exactly same amount of blunt as pierce is better.

High speed bonuses can affect this obviously too though.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Alahel on March 22, 2012, 03:16:32 pm

Really I dont understand system damage. It is absurd Why the archers do more damage than xbowmen?

For example

- I shoot a guy with red tunic, he said that he had 0 ironflesh, well. I have a heavyxbow + masterwork bolts 69+11 =80 My shoot hit him in his chest, Why didnt die?

After I have 40 of armour and some archers with one arrow they take hp 90-95%...

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on March 23, 2012, 12:01:34 am

Arbalest with loomed bolts should be able to do 90p or so at point blank range, being a guaranteed. You should be able to sometimes oneshot 40 armor people (not sure about hitboxes now) depending on if they have IF and how lucky you are with dice rolls (52 to 70 raw damage). Air friction lessens this A LOT though so at range it doesn't work and speed bonuses affect it a lot too, so it can change it considerably too. Not to mention head shots.

Crossbows and Bows have the same damage mechanics after the raw damage has been calculated, so against 40 armor we assume arbalester can do 90p at point blank. Long bow is 34p loomed, Rus bow 31p. Bodkins give 3 additional pierce, or alternatively damage type can be cut with tatars bringing it to +7 damage, but cut.

So we're looking at 41c or 37p before modifiers. Crossbows aren't affected by any player attributes, bows are. At a bow build of 21/21 or something similiar you can get your damage close, but you've also sacrificed mobility, melee capability and some accurace in your pursuit for damage. An average archer has absolutely no way of doing more damage than an arbalest on one shot - you need a very specialized build for it as opposed to arbalest users being able to have decent melee stats and good mobility.

Now, normal crossbow can do 66p fully loomed with fully loomed bolts. That's not that hard to surpass with a bow at all, but regardless compared to your investment of a couple of WM points the archer will need at minimum 5 points in power draw and additional points in weapon master due to power draw reducing wpf by 14 per point.

So, basically, if you are using normal crossbow, too bad, you aren't a proper crossbowman. If you're using an arbalest your burst damage is better. Speed bonuses, hitboxes and range play considerable roles in damage though, which can be a boon to archers. Super slow arbalest suffers a lot from a miss.

In terms of damage per seconds bows will win hands down obviously.

Play with http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm to see what damage what does before speed bonuses, hitboxes, hold bonus and air friction.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Alahel on March 23, 2012, 02:05:43 am

Yes,  the theory I know it. Then... You are saying the only xbow it is useful is arbalest, it cost 18K when best bow cost 9000.

Well damage calculator says the reality. I shoot a 10 meters a archer with red tunic like I  said before. But he didnt die. The damage calculator

    Minimum: 73
    Average: 74.5
    Maximum: 76

I doubt his hp would be more than 73.

Thank you Elmokki

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on March 23, 2012, 04:03:15 pm

Quote from: Alahel on March 23, 2012, 02:05:43 am

Yes,  the theory I know it. Then... You are saying the only xbow it is useful is arbalest, it cost 18K when best bow cost 9000.

Well damage calculator says the reality. I shoot a 10 meters a archer with red tunic like I  said before. But he didnt die. The damage calculator

    Minimum: 73
    Average: 74.5
    Maximum: 76

I doubt his hp would be more than 73.

Thank you Elmokki

Speed bonuses.

Also I do not know what the hitbox damages for ranged are now. They were REALLY low for chest for a patch but were buffed, not sure what they are at right now, but it might give a 0.9 or some multi to it.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Hannibal on March 24, 2012, 01:24:35 am

Great thread! It's a shame that the depth and documentation of warband/crpg requires you study it in a statistically significant way, but with a resource like this no one has an excuse not to know it all  :D.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: ammeron on March 24, 2012, 04:10:46 am

Quote from: _Sebastian_ on January 07, 2012, 01:53:28 pm

The right damage calculation for archery is;

Code: [Select]

raw_damage = (bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0
I show you an example with my build;

(34 + 2) * (159 * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (10 * 0.14 + 1) + 30 / 5.0 = 100.176p

except ur wpf isnt 159, if u subtract 140 from ur PD reduction to effective wpf, then u have to do the math with only 19wpf, witch gives u like 82 pierce not 100

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on March 24, 2012, 10:09:29 am

Quote from: ammeron on March 24, 2012, 04:10:46 am

except ur wpf isnt 159, if u subtract 140 from ur PD reduction to effective wpf, then u have to do the math with only 19wpf, witch gives u like 82 pierce not 100

As has been said before, there's no info on wether the effective wpf effects damage or just accuracy. I personally assume it affects damage and find it to make sense and thus the thread assumes it's so, but it's entirely possible PD/Armor won't affect damage.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Alahel on March 26, 2012, 04:15:27 pm

Elmooki

Why Have i dead in hands of xbowmen with arbalest one shot? I have 31 of armour, it is few, but like I have said before in my example...

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on March 26, 2012, 04:38:45 pm

Quote from: Alahel on March 26, 2012, 04:15:27 pm

Elmooki

Why Have i dead in hands of xbowmen with arbalest one shot? I have 31 of armour, it is few, but like I have said before in my example...

60-74 damage before speed bonus. 0 to like 150 after. Even with small hitbox reduction that's enough to oneshot people.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on April 11, 2012, 04:26:28 am

Bumpo?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Banok on April 16, 2012, 09:48:52 pm

Wow learned alot from this thread

"If you use polearm with a shield or from horseback, you get -27.75% damage penalty"

this really true for lancers, even no shield lancers? ouch makes me think 1h cav are even more op if they get 100% dmg

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elindor on May 01, 2012, 05:59:54 pm

When it mentions the effect of WPF on swing speed, is it talking about the speed that it takes from start to finish of a single strike, or is it talking about the time delay between swings?

Does WPF/agility/weapon weight have any influence on the time between swings?

Do they have any effect on the "recovery time" to go from swinging to parry or parry to another parry?


Because if high WPF and such only makes your swings complete ~6.5% faster and does not effect time between swings or parry timing then its pretty pointless and I will be removing some from my build :)  But probably most of you have already done this :)

(im balanced 18/21 right now but maybe going 21/18 now)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elindor on May 01, 2012, 06:34:21 pm

also, how much does each Athletics point effect run speed?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on May 01, 2012, 09:21:25 pm

Quote from: Elindor on May 01, 2012, 05:59:54 pm

When it mentions the effect of WPF on swing speed, is it talking about the speed that it takes from start to finish of a single strike, or is it talking about the time delay between swings?

IIRC it was start to finish, but I may be wrong. Check the original thread, it's been linked.

Quote

Does WPF/agility/weapon weight have any influence on the time between swings?

WPF has a minor effect indirectly, as you can see from the first post: The faster your swing goes, the faster your new hit will land too, ie it will help spamming.

Quote

Do they have any effect on the "recovery time" to go from swinging to parry or parry to another parry?

Weapon weight has. The heavier your opponent's weapon is compared to yours, the longer the recovery time is. That's probably the biggest reason onehander without shield builds have some issues (along with low damage and reach)

Quote

Because if high WPF and such only makes your swings complete ~6.5% faster and does not effect time between swings or parry timing then its pretty pointless and I will be removing some from my build :)  But probably most of you have already done this :)

The 111 wpf you get at level 30 without any weapon master is just fine for meleeing in my opinion. Above that it just costs too much compared to the benefit. However wpf is definitely useful for ranged (accuracy) and hybrid builds (below 100 wpf is pretty cheap and probably worth some weapon master points)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: haxKingdom on May 03, 2012, 12:09:56 am

Quote

Skills
- Power strike gives 8% melee damage per point
- Power draw gives 14% damage with bows per point
--> Only bow difficulty + 4 points of power draw will be taken to account. For example using nomad bow (difficulty 3) with 9 power draw would result in only 7 power draw being effective (MrShine).
- Power draw REDUCES your wpf by 14 per point. This is calculated before the weight wpf reduction.
- Power throw gives 10% damage with thrown weapons per point
- Power throw REDUCES your wpf by 13 per point. This is calculated before the weight wpf reduction.
- Ironflesh gives 2 hp

WAit so.. I could save on bow wpf if I just get the maximum Powerdraw.. if my wpf is 1 it can't take my wpf into negative numbers right?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on May 03, 2012, 01:20:51 am

Quote from: haxKingdom on May 03, 2012, 12:09:56 am

WAit so.. I could save on bow wpf if I just get the maximum Powerdraw.. if my wpf is 1 it can't take my wpf into negative numbers right?

No.

But you then get the "your proficiency in bows is too low" message and your active Powerdraw is lowered to what you have enough wpf for.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Erzengel on May 03, 2012, 02:51:32 pm

According to the new website strength reduces movement speed penalty associated with item weight. Is that true? Do I run faster in heavy armors when I have more strength?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on May 04, 2012, 10:50:31 am

Quote from: Churchill on May 03, 2012, 02:51:32 pm

According to the new website strength reduces movement speed penalty associated with item weight. Is that true? Do I run faster in heavy armors when I have more strength?

Never heard of any such thing.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Erzengel on May 04, 2012, 05:50:57 pm

Check the tooltip for strength on the character page.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elindor on May 04, 2012, 09:38:45 pm

Quote

The 111 wpf you get at level 30 without any weapon master is just fine for meleeing in my opinion. Above that it just costs too much compared to the benefit. However wpf is definitely useful for ranged (accuracy) and hybrid builds (below 100 wpf is pretty cheap and probably worth some weapon master points)

True, except for the amount you lose due to worn armor etc....
The average loadout probably loses around 30 wpf from this factor, and if you had 111 it would put you to around 80 wpf...which would be under 100 - which the main page says is what you need to get to the full dmg of the weapon right?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on May 05, 2012, 10:02:55 pm

Quote from: Elindor on May 04, 2012, 09:38:45 pm

True, except for the amount you lose due to worn armor etc....
The average loadout probably loses around 30 wpf from this factor, and if you had 111 it would put you to around 80 wpf...which would be under 100 - which the main page says is what you need to get to the full dmg of the weapon right?

Yes, but it's linear scaling so each point of wpf gives you the exact same amount of damage, wether it's 150 to 151 or 80 to 81. So basically the absolute effects of pumping more points to wm for wpf are the same regardless of your armor.

Of course there definitely are merits in getting 7 wm instead of converting 6 points to 3 strength and getting one more power strike with the seventh point - you probably are able to gain more damage AND swing speed with that as opposed to strength giving you 8% from PS and some very minor static damage from extra strength. So basically if you're going for a say 21/21 build without wm, it may well be worth it to go 18/21 with 7 wm instead.

Also like I've said before, it's not even 100% sure if the modified wpf affects damage or just swing speeds.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on May 28, 2012, 07:15:37 pm

I scanned and didn't notice anything on this, but was curious:

Does weapon weight have an effect on the damage it deals? For melee weapons at least. I noticed the iron mace and wing mace are very nearly identical, but iron mace weighs a lot more. Is this just for higher knockdown chance, or does it do anything else (besides give you more equip weight  :wink: )

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Everkistus on May 29, 2012, 10:45:47 am

Quote from: A_Hot_Elf_Princess on May 28, 2012, 07:15:37 pm

I scanned and didn't notice anything on this, but was curious:

Does weapon weight have an effect on the damage it deals? For melee weapons at least. I noticed the iron mace and wing mace are very nearly identical, but iron mace weighs a lot more. Is this just for higher knockdown chance, or does it do anything else (besides give you more equip weight  :wink: )

You get stunned (heavier weapon hits lighter weapon) a lot less.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Werfried on June 01, 2012, 08:16:56 pm

So, finally i think i understand the calculation of effective wpf.

I just want to know, if i get it right.
Example:

My Crossbow-Alt has 150 wpf in crossbow.
His Armor:
Head: 0,6*3 = 1,8
Hand: 0,3*2 = 0,6
Body:               9,4
Leg:                 0,6

Total armor weight is 12,4. Effective armor weight is 12,4 - 7 = 5,4.

So my 150 wpf get reduced by 5,4% (5,4% of 150 are 8) and my effective wpf is 142.

Please tell me that this is correct :)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Momo on June 01, 2012, 09:05:10 pm

Quote from: Werfried on June 01, 2012, 08:16:56 pm

So, finally i think i understand the calculation of effective wpf.

I just want to know, if i get it right.
Example:

My Crossbow-Alt has 150 wpf in crossbow.
His Armor:
Head: 0,6*3 = 1,8
Hand: 0,3*2 = 0,6
Body:               9,4
Leg:                 0,6

Total armor weight is 12,4. Effective armor weight is 12,4 - 7 = 5,4.

So my 150 wpf get reduced by 5,4% (5,4% of 150 are 8) and my effective wpf is 142.

Please tell me that this is correct :)

There is a calculator you know, http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm (http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm).

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Werfried on June 02, 2012, 01:25:06 pm

Ok, thanks! I knew the calculator, but never noticed the wpf calculation.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: dreadnok on June 03, 2012, 06:44:52 pm

Movement speed
Movement speed depends on agility, athletics and weight.

- Moving backwards reduces movement speed by roughly 34%
- Rain reduces movement speed by roughly 7.8%
- Blocking reduces movement speed by roughly 15%

i dont buy the backing up one of 34 percent

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Banok on June 08, 2012, 08:59:13 pm

hey any mechanics on movespeed bonus damage?

am I right in thinking that thrusts benifit more from it than swings?

I'm wondering if with a 1h, 30 thrust damage is alot more than 30 swing.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on June 08, 2012, 11:46:11 pm

No idea on exact mechanics. Most likely I believe the animations on stabs are just better for speed bonuses, ie straight forward.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on June 09, 2012, 04:18:39 am

Quote from: Elmokki on June 08, 2012, 11:46:11 pm

No idea on exact mechanics. Most likely I believe the animations on stabs are just better for speed bonuses, ie straight forward.

You get a bigger speed bonus, yeah. Although this works both ways (omfg, no damage! D:). Try play a bit of SP and take note of the speed bonus messages.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Christo on June 25, 2012, 08:12:04 pm

Very useful thread, cheers.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Mary_the_Bloody on July 05, 2012, 05:31:06 pm

Quote from Thread main post:

Effective WPF
There are three possible factors reducing your wpf from what is listed on the character sheet. First reduce your wpf by 13 for each point of power throw, then reduce your wpf by 14 for each point of power draw and then remove 1% of remaining wpf for each point of effective weight. For effective weight, see armor weight chapter above.

The same mathematically:
(wpf - 13*pt - 14*pd) * (1 - effective weight / 100)


Does this mean that my 2H WPF be affected (reduced), if I spend points in power throw? Or does power throw only reduce the throwing wpf?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on July 05, 2012, 10:13:59 pm

Quote from: Mary_the_Bloody on July 05, 2012, 05:31:06 pm

Quote from Thread main post:

Effective WPF
There are three possible factors reducing your wpf from what is listed on the character sheet. First reduce your wpf by 13 for each point of power throw, then reduce your wpf by 14 for each point of power draw and then remove 1% of remaining wpf for each point of effective weight. For effective weight, see armor weight chapter above.

The same mathematically:
(wpf - 13*pt - 14*pd) * (1 - effective weight / 100)


Does this mean that my 2H WPF be affected (reduced), if I spend points in power throw? Or does power throw only reduce the throwing wpf?

They only reduce their corresponding wpf (archery for PD and throwing for PT), as far as I know.

Wouldn't make sense otherwise...

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Vengt037 on July 06, 2012, 06:46:26 pm

Question about gravity.

Does it affect throwing / archery damage?

e.g. if I'm throwing at someone below me, will it do more damage than when i throw at someone above me?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Gurnisson on July 06, 2012, 07:17:44 pm

Quote from: Vengt037 on July 06, 2012, 06:46:26 pm

Question about gravity.

Does it affect throwing / archery damage?

e.g. if I'm throwing at someone below me, will it do more damage than when i throw at someone above me?

Yes

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Shub on July 27, 2012, 02:26:27 pm

Hi . Im new to CRPG . Archery questions :

1- can you have 2x bondkin arrows ( i cant buy the second one for some reason)
2- is WPF formula for +speed is 10points fof +1 wep speed?
3 - what is a "reasonable" max armor  weight for an archer 6? 10?
4 - wich bow is most acurate / wich arrows are most acurate
5- how does bodkin "pierce dmg" is calculated vs armor , compare to tatar "cut" dmg .

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on July 27, 2012, 11:51:45 pm

Quote from: Shub on July 27, 2012, 02:26:27 pm

Hi . Im new to CRPG . Archery questions :

1- can you have 2x bondkin arrows ( i cant buy the second one for some reason)
2- is WPF formula for +speed is 10points fof +1 wep speed?
3 - what is a "reasonable" max armor  weight for an archer 6? 10?
4 - wich bow is most acurate / wich arrows are most acurate
5- how does bodkin "pierce dmg" is calculated vs armor , compare to tatar "cut" dmg .

1. Just buy one set. You can equip it twice in game.
2. No. There's no clear formula, just approximations. See the first post and links in it
3. I can't remember the changes to the formula introduced a few months ago, but it depends heavily on what slots the weight is in. If you have a heavy helmet or heavy gloves you will need to take a lower total weight. Something like 10 is probably fine - the wpf loss is fairly minimal for going slightly over the cap anyway.
4. Arrows don't matter. I'm not sure which bow is the most accurate after the Power Draw wpf reductions, but I'm pretty sure they're all pretty close to equivalent AT CORRECT LEVELS OF PD.
5. See first post for exact formula or use one of the calculators to experiment. The exact level of armor on enemies when bodkins become better depends completely on your character stats and the bow you use (and technically speed bonuses, but those are generally not taken into account in theorycrafting)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on July 28, 2012, 12:19:33 pm

Quote from: Shub on July 27, 2012, 02:26:27 pm

4 - wich bow is most acurate

Each damage point decreases the accuracy by 1.

Short Bow    96 - 16  = 80
Bow             96 - 18  = 78
Nomad Bow 96 - 20  = 76
Tatar Bow    97 - 22  = 75
Horn Bow    97 - 24   = 73
Yumi            100 - 26 = 74
Rus Bow      100 - 28 = 72
Long Bow    101 - 31 = 70

So the short bow has the best accuracy and the long bow the worst accuracy.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Shub on July 28, 2012, 10:26:21 pm

Does +dmg increase on masterwork bows; costs aditional acuracy lost?;/

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on July 30, 2012, 02:24:25 pm

Quote from: Shub on July 28, 2012, 10:26:21 pm

Does +dmg increase on masterwork bows; costs aditional acuracy lost?;/

Yes of course.
Loomed bows are a bit less accurate than unloomed ones.
A masterwork bow normaly should get +3 accuracy because of the 3 additional damage points, but it just gets 2 accuacy points.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on August 01, 2012, 09:29:27 pm

This is also an interresting test I made about the weight penalty reduction of strenght, which effects the movement speed.
http://forum.meleegaming.com/general-discussion/str-agi-weight-penalty/msg567131/#msg567131

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I finally made a movement speed test on a complete flat 1020x1020m map.
I tested two different builds(0str/30str) with different carry weights(10/20/30/40/50/100).


carry weight= 0.0kg      10.0kg    20.0kg    30.0kg    40.0kg    50.0kg    100.0kg
 
    0str  0agi= 3.49m/s  3.39m/s  3.31m/s  3.25m/s  3.20m/s  3.16m/s  3.02m/s

  30str  0agi= 3.44m/s  3.35m/s  3.28m/s  3.22m/s  3.17m/s  3.13m/s  3.00m/s


carry weight= 0.0kg

   0str 30agi= 4.08m/s +10ath= 4.98m/s

  30str 30agi= 4.08m/s +10ath= 4.98m/s

The strange thing is, that strength actually lowers the speed if it has a higher value than agility.
Only if strength is on the same level as agility, you wont get any speed penalty from strength.

But now lets take a look on how much strength reduces the speed penalty from weight.


carry weight= 0.0kg      10.0kg  20.0kg 30.0kg  40.0kg  50.0kg  100.0kg
 
    0str  0agi= 3.49m/s  -0.10    -0.18    -0.26    -0.29    -0.33    -0.47

  30str  0agi= 3.44m/s  -0.09    -0.16    -0.22    -0.27    -0.31    -0.44

As you can see strength has an effect on the movement speed.
It's not realy that much, but better than nothing. :wink:

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Shub on August 02, 2012, 12:48:23 am

Awesome test man. 
1) Does Strength Passive dmg bonus also aplies to archery dmg? ( from calculator it looks like it adds dmg on archery too)
2) How much movment speed is increased by Agility ? is it significant compared to athl? ( does it affect also turning speed or is it constant?)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on August 02, 2012, 02:07:41 am

Quote from: Shub on August 02, 2012, 12:48:23 am

Awesome test man. 
1) Does Strength Passive dmg bonus also aplies to archery dmg? ( from calculator it looks like it adds dmg on archery too)
2) How much movment speed is increased by Agility ? is it significant compared to athl? ( does it affect also turning speed or is it constant?)

1) Each strength point gives a damage bonus of 0.2.

Code: [Select]

(bow_damage + arrow_damage) * (archery_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (min(power_draw, difficulty + 4) * 0.14 + 1) + strength / 5.0

2) Each agility point increases the movment speed by ~0.6%. (this is the base movement speed)
Athlethics increases the base movement speed by ~2.2% per point.
Both wont effect the turning speed.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Nyalan on August 03, 2012, 06:57:01 am

Quote from: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

Armor weight
Armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)
Effective armor weight = 2*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 4*hand armor weight - 10
(Source: WaltF4, updated 31.7.2012 based on the new formula)

I have made the test on the emulator of stats and Wpf still shows less affected for gloves than helmets, and under 7 there is no penalty. Can you confirm this new rule is really integrated and will stay on? The tester seems to be out of date...

http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on August 05, 2012, 07:51:35 pm

Quote from: Nyalan on August 03, 2012, 06:57:01 am

I have made the test on the emulator of stats and Wpf still shows less affected for gloves than helmets, and under 7 there is no penalty. Can you confirm this new rule is really integrated and will stay on? The tester seems to be out of date...

http://infinitum.dyndns.org/crpg/calc.htm

It's probably worth it to state this publicly: as far as I know the linked calculator uses formula I put there, which is now to my best knowledge outdated. I'd appriciate if someone would confirm me that the formula now on the original post is correct - it probably isn't - and I might bother to edit it to the calculator.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Shub on August 12, 2012, 06:23:14 pm

where can i find (FILE) that contains such variables as  :MOUSE sensitivity  , gamma etc? ( steam)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Phew on August 13, 2012, 12:01:05 am

Apparently the minimum throwing wpf formula changed since I last had throwing? I used to need 86 wpf to avoid the "your throwing wpf is too low message" with the following gear and 4 Power Throw:
Head: 2.7 weight
Body: 9.6
Gloves: 0.9
Boots: 0.8

Now I can have 6 Power throw while wearing that gear with only 79 wpf? Am I correct?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Shub on August 13, 2012, 09:37:13 am

Quote from: Shub on August 12, 2012, 06:23:14 pm

where can i find (FILE) that contains such variables as  :MOUSE sensitivity  , gamma etc? ( steam)

Actually i have found it in rgl_config.txt

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Shaksie on August 13, 2012, 10:53:30 am

Are the range values correct? In practice it seems that Arkonor's were more accurate :S.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Nyalan on August 14, 2012, 06:01:22 am

When you say:

Quote from: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

Stats
Strength gives 1 hp and 1/5 damage per point (thanks to Tydeus)

Does it means that 0.2 damage is added to your weapon directly, and so this damage is multiplied by your power strike? Or is it added at the end of the power strike calculation? So if you have a pierce or a blunt weapon, this 0.2 damage will be worth more? So it is not a % more damage?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on August 14, 2012, 10:18:27 am

Quote from: Nyalan on August 14, 2012, 06:01:22 am

When you say:

Does it means that 0.2 damage is added to your weapon directly, and so this damage is multiplied by your power strike? Or is it added at the end of the power strike calculation? So if you have a pierce or a blunt weapon, this 0.2 damage will be worth more? So it is not a % more damage?

The strength damage is allways added at the end of the calculatuion.

Code: [Select]

weapon_damage * (melee_wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85) * (power_strike * 0.08 + 1.0) + strength / 5.0

The damage type has no effect on this calculation.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on August 14, 2012, 04:06:01 pm

Actually while power strike, wpf and similiar things won't get the benefit, your strength bonus damage IS potentially worth more with a pierce or a blunt weapon. The function quoted in above post is calculated before armor.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: HUtH on August 15, 2012, 01:26:01 pm

Quote from: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

- If you use twohander with a shield or from horesback, you get -23.5% damage penalty if that twohander can be used with a shield (ie has onehander animations). If not, the penalty is -15%.

Do I understand it correctly - if I use Langes Messer on horseback in 2h mode, I get only -15% damage penalty, because it has only 2h swing animations, and if I use eg. Bastard Sword(default mode, without shield), I get -23.5%, because it has all animations?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on August 15, 2012, 09:49:17 pm

Quote from: HUtH on August 15, 2012, 01:26:01 pm

Do I understand it correctly - if I use Langes Messer on horseback in 2h mode, I get only -15% damage penalty, because it has only 2h swing animations, and if I use eg. Bastard Sword(default mode, without shield), I get -23.5%, because it has all animations?

The bastard weapons ("two handed/one handed", not those that switch by pressing X) gets a smaller penalty than pure 2handers when used on horseback, similar to when using them with a shield on foot.

The Langes Messer is NOT a bastard weapon as you switch between 1h and 2h by switching to the "secondary" mode (by pressing x). Although using the 2h mode on horse is a bit silly as you get the penalties, thus making it slower and more damaging than the 1h mode. You also lose the ability to use a shield with it.

If you use a Langes Messer in 2h mode on horse, then it's considered a normal 2hander and get the 2hander penalty on horse. If you use it in the 1hander mode with (or without) a shield, you don't get any penalties.

Those numbers are slightly wrong, I believe. I think it was Vibe or Teeth who made a post with the full penalties with the different weapons when used on horseback or with a shield.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: HUtH on August 15, 2012, 10:46:49 pm

Thank you. I was suspecting that, because its really stupid what that sentence from first post says... :
-If you use twohander with a shield or from horesback, you get -23.5% damage penalty if that twohander can be used with a shield (ie has onehander animations).
so it's like(regarding fighting on mount): 2H that can be used with shield(like bastards) -> -23.5% penalty
-If not, the penalty is -15%.
so: NOT 2H that can be used with shield(like normal 2H) -> -15% penalty

I can't read well and it's ok or it's just wrong?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elindor on August 15, 2012, 10:52:33 pm

For WPF reduction from armor weight, I thought it was:

body weight x1
helm weight x3
gloves weight x2
boots weight x1

is it not?  says info different from that in first post.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on August 15, 2012, 11:55:22 pm

Quote from: HUtH on August 15, 2012, 10:46:49 pm

Thank you. I was suspecting that, because its really stupid what that sentence from first post says... :
-If you use twohander with a shield or from horesback, you get -23.5% damage penalty if that twohander can be used with a shield (ie has onehander animations).
so it's like(regarding fighting on mount): 2H that can be used with shield(like bastards) -> -23.5% penalty
-If not, the penalty is -15%.
so: NOT 2H that can be used with shield(like normal 2H) -> -15% penalty

I can't read well and it's ok or it's just wrong?

The OP here is slightly wrong or worded it pretty badly. I'll see if I can dig the post with the actual formulas up.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elindor on August 17, 2012, 05:34:03 pm

Quote from Shik on June 13 2012

Quote

As of the latest patch, archers can wear up to 10 weight without losing accuracy.
Helmets count double
Gloves count quadruple.
boots and body armor are x1

Even if you go above 10 weight though, it's not the end of the world.

Answered my question.  First post is correct.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on August 17, 2012, 08:31:34 pm

Here's the code I based it from. It's slightly old but by cmp:

Code: [Select]

if (weapon_type == 'two_handed' or weapon_type == 'polearm') and (has_shield or mounted):
raw_damage *= 0.85

if weapon_type == 'polearm':
raw_damage *= 0.85

if weapon_flags & itp_two_handed:
raw_damage *= 0.9

Since not everyone is Python literate, here's a rundown:

If weapon is of type "two_handed" or "polearm" and player has a shield or is mounted he gets -15% damage

In addition another -15% (total of 1 - 0.85^2 = 0.2775 = 27.75% reduction) if weapon type is "polearm" or another -10% (total of -23.5%) if weapon flags contain "itp_two_handed"

I have no idea what's the flag itp_two_handed or if I misread some other part of that somehow - I have very little experience about Warband modding - but:

Shield and/or Mounted + Pole = -27.75%
Shield and/or Mounted + Twohander = -23.5%

Source: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168722.msg4090900.html#msg4090900

Now, the numbers may be just plain wrong. Feel free to correct them if you got good source for proper numbers :)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: HUtH on August 21, 2012, 05:18:29 pm

uh, why it's so enigmatic :P

well, I have a feeling that while mounted HBS is faster than Langes Messer in 2H mode, though LM is theoretically faster... odd thing

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on August 21, 2012, 09:25:40 pm

Quote from: HUtH on August 21, 2012, 05:18:29 pm

uh, why it's so enigmatic :P

well, I have a feeling that while mounted HBS is faster than Langes Messer in 2H mode, though LM is theoretically faster... odd thing

I still haven't found the numbers (actually, been too busy to look, sorry), but the HBS is a "two-handed/one-handed" (aka "bastard sword") and the Langes in 2h mode is just a normal two-hander and thus gets a smaller penalty.

Gonna go search for the post now.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Shub on August 23, 2012, 10:56:08 am

-How much weight decreases  moving speed , are there weight class armors like light -x% medium -y% heavy -z% , does weight affects acceleration?

-How much running with wep out affects speed , does it apply to bows too?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tovi on August 28, 2012, 07:08:00 pm

Does it worth to invest wpf in a polearm secondary weapon ?
I've 120 wpf at 1h and 0 wpf at polearm. I could go 130/0 or 120/60.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on August 31, 2012, 09:31:20 pm

Quote from: Shub on August 23, 2012, 10:56:08 am

-How much weight decreases  moving speed , are there weight class armors like light -x% medium -y% heavy -z% , does weight affects acceleration?

-How much running with wep out affects speed , does it apply to bows too?

There are no different weight "classes" for armors, only the total weigth of the carried items(armors, weapons, shields) effects the movement speed.

I havent tested the speed loss with wielded weapons, but it slows you down sligthly... depends on the weapon weight and yes it also effects bows.

Take a look on my test.

Quote from: _Sebastian_ on August 01, 2012, 09:29:27 pm

I finally made a movement speed test on a complete flat 1020x1020m map.
I tested two different builds(0str/30str) with different carry weights(10/20/30/40/50/100).


carry weight= 0.0kg      10.0kg    20.0kg    30.0kg    40.0kg    50.0kg    100.0kg
 
    0str  0agi= 3.49m/s  3.39m/s  3.31m/s  3.25m/s  3.20m/s  3.16m/s  3.02m/s

  30str  0agi= 3.44m/s  3.35m/s  3.28m/s  3.22m/s  3.17m/s  3.13m/s  3.00m/s


carry weight= 0.0kg

   0str 30agi= 4.08m/s +10ath= 4.98m/s

  30str 30agi= 4.08m/s +10ath= 4.98m/s

The strange thing is, that strength actually lowers the speed if it has a higher value than agility.
Only if strength is on the same level as agility, you wont get any speed penalty from strength.

But now lets take a look on how much strength reduces the speed penalty from weight.


carry weight= 0.0kg      10.0kg  20.0kg 30.0kg  40.0kg  50.0kg  100.0kg
 
    0str  0agi= 3.49m/s  -0.10    -0.18    -0.26    -0.29    -0.33    -0.47

  30str  0agi= 3.44m/s  -0.09    -0.16    -0.22    -0.27    -0.31    -0.44

As you can see strength has an effect on the movement speed.
It's not realy that much, but better than nothing. :wink:

Quote from: Tovi on August 28, 2012, 07:08:00 pm

Does it worth to invest wpf in a polearm secondary weapon ?
I've 120 wpf at 1h and 0 wpf at polearm. I could go 130/0 or 120/60.

Depends.
If you often use the polearm mode, then invest some wpf in it.
If not... it would be a waste of your wpf. :wink:

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Macropus on September 11, 2012, 08:05:30 am

Can I have 2 same +3 items in my inventory?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Falka on September 11, 2012, 09:24:48 am

Quote from: Macropus on September 11, 2012, 08:05:30 am

Can I have 2 same +3 items in my inventory?

Yes, you can.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: juv95hrn on September 17, 2012, 11:53:26 am

Is there a way to transfer items and gold within cRPG between  your own characters without paying for the trade tax of 5% and the trade listing fee?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Macropus on September 17, 2012, 03:20:36 pm

Quote from: juv95hrn on September 17, 2012, 11:53:26 am

Is there a way to transfer items and gold within cRPG between  your own characters without paying for the trade tax of 5% and the trade listing fee?

Use "Inventory" -> "Transfer" in character menu.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: juv95hrn on October 04, 2012, 08:38:33 pm

Does each point of Athletics increase running speed the same or do higher scores decrease the increase like wpf efficiency?

I think ATH increases run speed 2% for each point and AGI about 0.5%. Is this correct?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 04, 2012, 09:58:46 pm

It does indeed increase running speed by a bit. A perfect example is a 3 agi character compared to a STF 39 agi character (which is why those troll-invincible-shield characters are so nimble).

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: juv95hrn on October 04, 2012, 10:13:17 pm

Quote from: Tears of Destiny on October 04, 2012, 09:58:46 pm

It does indeed increase running speed by a bit. A perfect example is a 3 agi character compared to a STF 39 agi character (which is why those troll-invincible-shield characters are so nimble).

Is the increase rate flat or does it diminish the more points you put into AGI or ATH?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tears of Destiny on October 04, 2012, 11:37:43 pm

Quote from: juv95hrn on October 04, 2012, 10:13:17 pm

Is the increase rate flat or does it diminish the more points you put into AGI or ATH?

Linear increase.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tovi on October 11, 2012, 01:51:15 pm

Quote

Effective armor weight = 2*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 4*hand armor weight - 10

Ok, I'm PT7 (7*13=91) and 110 at throwing===> 19 free weight

I have a total of 25.8 (-10) effective weight (according to this formula).

15.8<19 but I have a low proficiency message.

at 10 (20-10) no malus
11.6 is ok
12.2 malus
12.4 malus

I think something is wrong.
But if I take headx3 and legx2 it's ok...

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Knitler on October 14, 2012, 03:47:38 pm

Hey guys, plaing my endbuild but still not sure 21/24 or 24/21 cause i glance too much often last times ... btw im using awlpike all the time ...

(click to show/hide)

Code: [Select]

Level:           35

Strength:        21
Agility:         24

Skill to attr:   10

Ironflash:        7
Power Strike:     7
Athletics:        8
Weapon Master:    4

Polearm:        144


So i planed to use Transitional when im over lvl33 so there are some questions.

Does 1 ATHL dissolve 10.0 weight?
Is 144wpf enough for me? I mean i dont need that much for awlpike.

Im using 3.1/3.4 weight helmets
              12.2/21.9 weight armors
              1.2 weight gauntlets
              2.4/3.2 weight foots

700k left then i will retire at lvl32 and start with it. :-)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: juv95hrn on October 17, 2012, 12:30:27 pm

Quote from: Tears of Destiny on October 04, 2012, 09:58:46 pm

It does indeed increase running speed by a bit. A perfect example is a 3 agi character compared to a STF 39 agi character (which is why those troll-invincible-shield characters are so nimble).

I'm trying to find out exactly how much agi and ATH increases running speed now (by playing I certainly found out that you are ineed correct by now). I think I read somewhere on the forums that each point of ATH increases your running speed by 2% whereas each point of AGI increases it by 0.5%. Can someone confirm or deny these numbers?


EDIT:

Found this on page 6 of this thread:

"2) Each agility point increases the movment speed by ~0.6%. (this is the base movement speed)
Athlethics increases the base movement speed by ~2.2% per point."

The thing is that tool tips don't confirm this anywhere so I am wondering how we know this. Sorry if I am repeating this needlessly.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on October 19, 2012, 12:42:12 am

Quote from: juv95hrn on October 17, 2012, 12:30:27 pm

I'm trying to find out exactly how much agi and ATH increases running speed now (by playing I certainly found out that you are ineed correct by now). I think I read somewhere on the forums that each point of ATH increases your running speed by 2% whereas each point of AGI increases it by 0.5%. Can someone confirm or deny these numbers?

Quoting myself...

(click to show/hide)

Quote from: _Sebastian_ on August 01, 2012, 09:29:27 pm

I finally made a movement speed test on a complete flat 1020x1020m map.
I tested two different builds(0str/30str) with different carry weights(10/20/30/40/50/100).


carry weight= 0.0kg      10.0kg    20.0kg    30.0kg    40.0kg    50.0kg    100.0kg
 
    0str  0agi= 3.49m/s  3.39m/s  3.31m/s  3.25m/s  3.20m/s  3.16m/s  3.02m/s

  30str  0agi= 3.44m/s  3.35m/s  3.28m/s  3.22m/s  3.17m/s  3.13m/s  3.00m/s


carry weight= 0.0kg

   0str 30agi= 4.08m/s +10ath= 4.98m/s

  30str 30agi= 4.08m/s +10ath= 4.98m/s

The strange thing is, that strength actually lowers the speed if it has a higher value than agility.
Only if strength is on the same level as agility, you wont get any speed penalty from strength.

But now lets take a look on how much strength reduces the speed penalty from weight.


carry weight= 0.0kg      10.0kg  20.0kg 30.0kg  40.0kg  50.0kg  100.0kg
 
    0str  0agi= 3.49m/s  -0.10    -0.18    -0.26    -0.29    -0.33    -0.47

  30str  0agi= 3.44m/s  -0.09    -0.16    -0.22    -0.27    -0.31    -0.44

As you can see strength has an effect on the movement speed.
It's not realy that much, but better than nothing. :wink:

Quote from: juv95hrn on October 17, 2012, 12:30:27 pm

"2) Each agility point increases the movment speed by ~0.6%. (this is the base movement speed)
Athlethics increases the base movement speed by ~2.2% per point."

The thing is that tool tips don't confirm this anywhere so I am wondering how we know this. Sorry if I am repeating this needlessly.

All tests where made with a movement speed calculation script, so you can trust me with this.  :wink:

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: BattalGazi on December 19, 2012, 08:18:42 pm

Is this info on the first page accurate for archer & horse archer weapon proficiency?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: SucculentHeadCrab on December 24, 2012, 03:06:58 am

For archers, is it still Athletics that reduces WPF or was it reverted back to Power Draw doing so?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Orbas on December 25, 2012, 12:00:19 pm

Quote from: SucculentHeadCrab on December 24, 2012, 03:06:58 am

For archers, is it still Athletics that reduces WPF or was it reverted back to Power Draw doing so?

From what I've gathered that mechanic didn't last longer than 4 days.  It's back to normal now.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: no_rules_just_play on December 30, 2012, 06:45:50 am

what will do the most damage: 18/24 or 15/27 (using a long spear)?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Lethwin Far Seeker on January 10, 2013, 06:10:47 am

Quote from: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

On melee weapon reach

1h
Overhead = +0
Left-to-right = +0
Right-to-left = +19
Thrust = +61

2h
Overhead = +15
Left-to-right = +17
Right-to-left = +13
Thrust = +80 (This may be slightly wrong with the new stab animation)

2h Polearms
Overhead = -15
Left-to-right = -7
Right-to-left = -2
Thrust = +19

1h Polearms
Thrust = +50

I don't know how much "slightly wrong" may be but being able to extend farther with both hands (without a long haft\handle like on a polearm) than with a single hand is physically impossible due to the inability to rotate the torso with the thrust. 
1h polearms Thrust = +50
2h Thrust = +80
1h Thrust should also equal the 1h polearm thrust as they are using the same body mechanics
This defies a simple human body mechanic.
 
Example:
Stand with your back against the wall with both arms extended in front of you (as if thrusting).  Then rotate your torso so that it is perpendicular to the wall.  Whichever shoulder moves forward, the corresponding arm and hand will move forward ahead of the opposite arm\hand (specifically the distance of the width of the torso).  This simulates a thrust with a free hand, now start over and try doing the same thing while trying to keep your hands together (as if they were on the handle of a longsword).  You no longer have the ability of that extended reach.

The only way a 1h thrust of any kind could have less reach than a 2h would be if the weapon it's self was shorter by a certain amount (distance of the width of the torso) or in the case of polearms, the grip was positioned further up the shaft of the polearm effectively reducing it's reach (example: boar spear has nearly as much reach as the spear because of grip positioning despite the boar spear being a much shorter weapon)

Will there be any address of the 2h thrust not glancing at point blank range and\or being able to thrust, miss, and bring hitbox rapidly in towards target for full impact?  (or however you choose to define the very obvious and exploited broken 2h thrust mechanic)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on January 23, 2013, 12:02:57 am

cRPG animations are not real life.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: buba on February 07, 2013, 12:19:56 pm

So I was thinking about using a two hander with one hander animation like the long sword + shield.
So I know ill get a discount on its effect.
But, I planning to use it from horse back. Would I get a double discount? or would the highest discount count and neglect the lowest one?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on February 07, 2013, 12:47:17 pm

Quote from: buba on February 07, 2013, 12:19:56 pm

So I was thinking about using a two hander with one hander animation like the long sword + shield.
So I know ill get a discount on its effect.
But, I planning to use it from horse back. Would I get a double discount? or would the highest discount count and neglect the lowest one?

The penalty would be the same. With shield, on horse, on horse with shield. No difference. Well, apart from the slower block time that shield has.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 13, 2013, 09:25:07 pm

Haven't read through the whole OP yet (very great collection of data btw), but just saw one thing that needed to be corrected:

Shield slots:  it states that shields over 6 weight are 2 slots, under are slot.  That is incorrect.  7.5 weight shields and below are 1 slot, 8 weight shields and above are 2 slots.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Phew on February 13, 2013, 09:35:57 pm

Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on February 13, 2013, 09:25:07 pm

Shield slots:  it states that shields over 6 weight are 2 slots, under are slot.  That is incorrect.  7.5 weight shields and below are 1 slot, 8 weight shields and above are 2 slots.

Except the Board Shield, which is 8 kg and 1-slot. This makes it a pretty good shield, although the low armor means xbow bolts penetrate it easily.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on February 14, 2013, 11:18:32 pm

I updated it.

There was an another way to phrase the rule - I think. All shields that cost less than 4400 gold and all the bucklers are less than 2 slots (ie bucklers + all 7.5 or less weight + board shield)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on February 19, 2013, 02:24:37 am

Quote from: Elmokki on January 07, 2012, 01:05:12 am

- Horse archery (...) reduces damage penalty of throwing weapons and bows while horseback by 1.9% per point (10 points being equal to 99% of non-mounted damage)

Does this mean that, throwing from horseback with 0 HA, you do 0% of non-mounted damage?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Dach on February 19, 2013, 03:22:29 am

No, ranged on horse get a 20% malus on damage.

HA give you back 1.9% back by point.

Oh and btw HA is fucked up in C-RPG... because in native the skill is implemented to possibly go to 10 which bring you back to 99% of non-mounted damage.

In C-RPG with a gimmick build you can get to 5 HA max which mean you still lose 10.5% compared to non-mounted.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on February 19, 2013, 01:59:53 pm

Quote from: Dach on February 19, 2013, 03:22:29 am

No, ranged on horse get a 20% malus on damage.

HA give you back 1.9% back by point.

Oh and btw HA is fucked up in C-RPG... because in native the skill is implemented to possibly go to 10 which bring you back to 99% of non-mounted damage.

In C-RPG with a gimmick build you can get to 5 HA max which mean you still lose 10.5% compared to non-mounted.

Which is good, now that they implemented the speed bonus for mounted ranged. You're NA so you don't have it yet, but on EU1 you can do massive damage as HA/HC/HT now since it also factors in the mounted shooters speed and not just the one being hit.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on February 19, 2013, 03:04:47 pm

Quote from: Dach on February 19, 2013, 03:22:29 am

No, ranged on horse get a 20% malus on damage.

HA give you back 1.9% back by point.

Oh and btw HA is fucked up in C-RPG... because in native the skill is implemented to possibly go to 10 which bring you back to 99% of non-mounted damage.

In C-RPG with a gimmick build you can get to 5 HA max which mean you still lose 10.5% compared to non-mounted.

...Are you telling me 1.9x10=19?!?!

God, I'm an idiot sometimes. Thanks for doing my simple math for me. Next time I'll actually try on my own :)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Commodore_Axephante on February 23, 2013, 06:00:01 pm

Hey guys, so correct me if I'm wrong here...

- Each power strike point is 8% extra damage
- 10 wpf is equal to 1.5% damage. You have a 15% damage penalty at 0 wpf compared to base weapon damage. At 100 wpf there is no penalty or bonus to damage.

This means that after 100 wpf, each wpf = .15% damage? So, (again, after the first 100wpf) roughly 53 wpf = 1 PS?

Thus, someone with 153 wpf and 1 PS will do the same damage as someone with 100 wpf and 2 ps, no?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: TurmoilTom on February 23, 2013, 09:50:24 pm

Quote from: Commodore_Axephante on February 23, 2013, 06:00:01 pm

Hey guys, so correct me if I'm wrong here...

- Each power strike point is 8% extra damage
- 10 wpf is equal to 1.5% damage. You have a 15% damage penalty at 0 wpf compared to base weapon damage. At 100 wpf there is no penalty or bonus to damage.

This means that after 100 wpf, each wpf = .15% damage? So, (again, after the first 100wpf) roughly 53 wpf = 1 PS?

Thus, someone with 153 wpf and 1 PS will do the same damage as someone with 100 wpf and 2 ps, no?

The damage multiplier formula is (1 + .08PS)(.85 + .0015WPF)

1 PS and 153 WPF will yield a 1.16586 damage multiplier.

2 PS and 100 WPF will yield a 1.16 damage multiplier.

The 1 PS build will yield a higher damage multiplier, but combine the fact that each point of strength adds .2 damage which would most likely yield higher damage for the 2 PS build and the fact that the damage multipliers are already so close together that the difference is completely irrelevant and it seems that the 2 PS build would likely perform better.

EDIT: If you want more details you can refer to this post cmp made on the Taleworld's Forum: http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,168722.msg4090900.html#msg4090900

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on February 24, 2013, 10:15:25 pm

Due to the huge expense of getting wpf to genuinely high numbers the optimization problem for damage is such that for any or almost any sane specialized build stacking strength and power strike should be better for pure damage per hit than weapon master.

That said 3 WM or something like that may be worth it for a build with tons of strength. I'm not sure since I haven't calculated it with the actual attainable wpf amounts, but maybe I'll make a spreadsheet once I'm bored enough.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 06, 2013, 06:26:53 pm

the Effective WPF from bows is off. We no longer use 14 per point, but I don't know what it is now. Do you?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on March 07, 2013, 12:28:14 pm

I have no idea.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Lt_Anders on March 09, 2013, 03:42:07 am

FOUND IT FOUND IT FOUND IT. TOOK ME 30 minutes!

argh anyways

http://forum.meleegaming.com/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/archer-build-41378/msg646130/#msg646130

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on March 09, 2013, 10:53:51 am

Thanks

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarl_Onurb on March 16, 2013, 02:41:45 am

Quote

Ranged accuracy
Weapon profiency has a big effect on accuracy as does the weapon accuracy stat. In addition every point of damage reduces accuracy by 1 and thus even though Long bow has the highest accuracy rating, it is actually the most innaccurate bow due to high damage.
(Source: _Sebastian_)

Does that affect to Xbows and Throwing weapons too?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on March 17, 2013, 10:54:12 am

Quote from: Jarl_Onurb on March 16, 2013, 02:41:45 am

Does that affect to Xbows and Throwing weapons too?

As far as I know, yes. That's why heavier weapons tend to have higher accuracy on average.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: _Sebastian_ on March 21, 2013, 03:30:48 pm

Quote from: Jarl_Onurb on March 16, 2013, 02:41:45 am

Does that affect to Xbows and Throwing weapons too?

Yap.
Each damage point decreases the accuracy by 1 on throwing weapons and bows.

But its different on crossbows.
On crossbows... 4 damage points decrease the accuracy by 1.

Let's do some calculation for the arbalest;
damage= 81
accuracy= 89

real accuracy= 89-(81/4) = 68.75

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: sdfjkln on April 18, 2013, 12:20:11 am

Which WPF is used when you hoplite? I was under the impression it was like the 2h swords that turn into 1h WPF with a shield.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on April 18, 2013, 12:49:41 am

Quote from: sdfjkln on April 18, 2013, 12:20:11 am

Which WPF is used when you hoplite? I was under the impression it was like the 2h swords that turn into 1h WPF with a shield.

You use polearm wpf.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Elmokki on April 20, 2013, 10:58:37 pm

It's pretty intuitive that it works this way, but we just tested it with Wayate: secondary modes of shield breaking weapons don't gain the bonus against shields. This is with broad onehanded axe or something. I'm quite sure that technically secondary modes can have shield breaking so some weapon could theoretically have it in secondary mode, but I doubt it.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tovi on May 01, 2013, 01:52:05 pm

I get from 120 throwing wpf to 122 and now i want the wisby gauntlet instead of the mail gauntlet.
So :
0.2 weight more
2 wpf more
even 0.2x4 = 0.8 should be enough with 1 wpf more. But even with 2 more wpf i will get the malus.


 :?: :?: :?: :?:

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarl_Onurb on May 09, 2013, 02:19:27 am

Quote

All thine work has payed off...
...has absolutely no effect in cRPG. It gives you 3 crafting profiency to every item you were wearing in Strategus and removes 1 crafting profiency from every other item you had profiency in.

How can that be helpful in Strategus? Is there an option to craft the gear you were using while you get that message? or do that not work any more?

PD: Thanks for answering my previous question, I had forgotten that I had written it.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on May 09, 2013, 12:05:11 pm

Quote from: Jarl_Onurb on May 09, 2013, 02:19:27 am

How can that be helpful in Strategus? Is there an option to craft the gear you were using while you get that message? or do that not work any more?

PD: Thanks for answering my previous question, I had forgotten that I had written it.

Crafting has been taken out of strategus.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: njames89 on July 25, 2013, 08:16:55 am

Great and useful thread! Hope its all still relevant? Thanks OP

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Patoson on August 10, 2013, 01:14:56 am

I guess I should have posted here first before making the thread, but here it goes:

Quote from: Patoson on August 09, 2013, 07:21:52 pm

Does the increase of WPF let you block faster, as in the last moment / reaction time?

I have a relatively high ping (~80) and play with 2h, and it has always been hard for me to block fast attacks (1h basically) in the last moment, but I never knew one thing: with higher wpf, can I block faster, as to bypass my high ping?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: stryker montgomery on September 02, 2013, 06:47:33 am

Looks liek great stuff.. but as a beginner I don't eve know what 'wpf' means.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Varadin on September 02, 2013, 07:03:38 am

weapon proficiency

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Fandrall on October 18, 2013, 09:43:39 am

Is the HA malus (archery) removed?  Its not listed in the first post anymore but I cant find any information of it being removed in patch announcements.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: HUtH on November 04, 2013, 11:16:21 pm

What happens when some item breaks into the worst level(cracked, ruined, etc.)? Is it still usable and could it break totally, get destroyed and vanquish?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: njames89 on November 04, 2013, 11:40:59 pm

Quote from: HUtH on November 04, 2013, 11:16:21 pm

What happens when some item breaks into the worst level(cracked, ruined, etc.)? Is it still usable and could it break totally, get destroyed and vanquish?

It is still usable but its stats get reduced heavily. On the c-rpg website if you click on an item and then go to the ranks tab you can see the actual stats.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: HUtH on November 05, 2013, 10:30:52 am

Thanks, I was thinking about smth ridiculous, certainly I wouldn't be first, and that is playing with best stuff, but not repairing it at all, so no upkeep. It would still give acceptable armor, the only con is weight :P
edit:
meh, it goes unusable :P

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Ronin on December 25, 2013, 08:08:19 pm

Does anyone know the HA malus formula? I couldn't find it in the first post.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: chaosegg on December 27, 2013, 01:26:19 am

?is this information is still accurate / up-to-date?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: korppis on December 27, 2013, 09:31:09 pm

Yes everything in the op is still accurate.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Moncho on January 02, 2014, 10:24:31 pm

I do not think so, I think that the throwing malus for one was reduced some patches ago, to 11 iirc. let me search:

Edit 3: WPF per PT requirement reduced from 13 to 11. Putting wpf into any melee type will grant bonus wpf to the other melee proficiencies.
(from http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/wpp-sum-and-cost-formula-rework(includes-wm)/msg891170/#msg891170)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tydeus on February 06, 2014, 10:10:33 pm

WPF per PD formula: final WPF = (WPF - max((14(PD) - (1.5^PD), 0))

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: San on March 04, 2014, 06:52:24 pm

Quote from: Ronin on December 25, 2013, 08:08:19 pm

Does anyone know the HA malus formula? I couldn't find it in the first post.

Very very old response, but

damage * (0.8+ (HA*0.019))

Anyone have the required experience graph? Trying to update the crpg calculator.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: 722_ on March 24, 2014, 07:14:05 pm

Could someone explain how body armour for sheilds works please? does it add to your body armour when you get hit by something? or when you have it on your back of something? thanks

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 24, 2014, 08:03:32 pm

Shield body armor is basically the native "Resistance" attribute. The hit points are the native "shield durability" attributes.  See below for descriptions:  http://mountandblade.wikia.com/wiki/Shields

Quote

Shield Durability: (in c-rpg, this is Hit Points) This is the "health" of the shield; it determines how much damage it can take before it breaks. If it runs out, the shield will be dropped and can no longer be used for the remainder of the battle.

Resistance: (in c-rpg, this is the shield's body armor) This is the damage subtracted from every hit the shield takes (The shield's armor). For example, a 0 Resistance shield hit by a blade will take 20 damage, which will drain its Durability; instead, a 10 Resistance shield hit by the same blade will take only 10 damage (20 minus 10). Resistance also factors against a successful Guard Crush. This parameter can be quite important for a shield. Certain weapons, mainly axes and axe-like weapons, ignore this value when dealing damage. Ranged weapons with sufficient damage and missile speed can penetrate shields that have a low resistance. This damage is always reduced, however a hard enough hitting attack will interrupt your block. Shields appear to take an absolute minimum of 1 point of damage per hit while held regardless of how high its resistance, how high the shield skill of the wielder is or how weak the enemy's weapon is.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: 722_ on March 25, 2014, 12:13:17 am

Thank you!

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on March 25, 2014, 02:00:08 am

Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on March 24, 2014, 08:03:32 pm

Shield body armor is basically the native "Resistance" attribute. The hit points are the native "shield durability" attributes.  See below for descriptions:  http://mountandblade.wikia.com/wiki/Shields

That actually doesn't mention how a shield on your back works at all. Just how it works while you hold it.

Basically: any RANGED (arrow, bolt, throwing and I assume ballista) hit to your back when you have a shield there, means you gain the shields resistance and another 10 to your armour rating.

So say you got a 15 resistance shield and 50 body armour. When you get hit by a ranged to your back you have 50+10+15 (normal armour+10+shields resistance.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 25, 2014, 03:26:56 pm

Quote from: Jarlek on March 25, 2014, 02:00:08 am

That actually doesn't mention how a shield on your back works at all. Just how it works while you hold it.

Basically: any RANGED (arrow, bolt, throwing and I assume ballista) hit to your back when you have a shield there, means you gain the shields resistance and another 10 to your armour rating.

So say you got a 15 resistance shield and 50 body armour. When you get hit by a ranged to your back you have 50+10+15 (normal armour+10+shields resistance.

I didn't know that (specifically).  I knew it helped lower the damage, but didn't realize it was so great

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on March 25, 2014, 06:40:25 pm

Quote from: CrazyCracka420 on March 25, 2014, 03:26:56 pm

I didn't know that (specifically).  I knew it helped lower the damage, but didn't realize it was so great

As 2h cav, taking the hide covered round shield with you when you're riding is really great, as any ranged hits to your back gives you an additional 31 body armour.

This is also why I always put my shield on back on my 1h&shieldcav when I ride away from enemy ranged and got no enemies to my front.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Rayyaan on April 12, 2014, 04:28:23 pm

As this is game mechanic thread, question:-

I have had multi in strat before and it was good. Recently I haven't had mutliplyer in strat. How does it work? (I undertsand how it works on non-strat)

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on April 12, 2014, 06:42:24 pm

You don't have multipliers on strat

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Ujio on May 05, 2014, 06:57:39 pm

Does agility affect movement speed and attack speed?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on May 05, 2014, 09:48:46 pm

Only movement speed.


It did affect attack speed in the original Mount&Blade, but not in M&B: Warband.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Ujio on May 05, 2014, 10:56:47 pm

Cheers. Any idea how much it increases movement speed by?

Didn't see anything regarding agility and movement speed on the first page. I'm assuming it's out of date.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Bitchputteron228 on June 21, 2014, 01:29:47 pm

(archery_wpf* 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85)

is dat raw or simple archery wpf?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on June 21, 2014, 03:21:28 pm

Quote from: Ujio on May 05, 2014, 10:56:47 pm

Cheers. Any idea how much it increases movement speed by?

Didn't see anything regarding agility and movement speed on the first page. I'm assuming it's out of date.

Quote

Movement speed
Movement speed depends on agility, athletics and weight.

- Moving backwards reduces movement speed by roughly 34%
- Rain reduces movement speed by roughly 7.8%
- Blocking reduces movement speed by roughly 15%

Along with this carried items reduce movement speed.

Quote from: WaltF4 on January 14, 2012, 01:36:27 am

My testing (http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3278.0.html) suggests that the engine uses a single, total weight for the running speed calculations. This weight includes all items your character has on them: worn, sheathed, or unsheathed. Holding a weapon further reduces running speed based on the weapon length and weight. Holding a shield does not change running speed relative to wearing that shield, unless your character is holding one shield while wearing another shield; in which case, there is an enormous reduction in running speed.

Only armor weight appears to matter for attack speeds. Holding a shield does not change the time taken to complete an attack. However, the delay between blocking an attack and beginning your own attack may be different if you block with a weapon compared to a shield. I would assume that the difference depends on the weights and speeds of both the attacking and blocking weapons and the shield.

http://forum.melee.org/beginner's-help-and-guides/running-in-crpg/

That last link is where you can get the most information about movement speed.

WaltF4s tests are kinda old though (that one is from 2011), but I don't think they changed how movement speed worked at any point so...

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Bitchputteron228 on June 26, 2014, 03:00:47 pm

If pd*14>archery than will it count in damage in different way?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarlek on June 26, 2014, 03:20:03 pm

Quote from: Bitchputteron228 on June 26, 2014, 03:00:47 pm

If pd*14>archery than will it count in damage in different way?

If by archery you mean archery wpf, then yes.

If you have less wpf (remember: armour reduces wpf too) than what your PD needs, then you will only get the PD bonuses of whatever level of PD you got the WPF for.

Example:
If you got 10 PD you would need 140 wpf to not get any penalty.
If you only have 130 wpf, then you will only have PD 9 (since 14*9=126) so you'll only get the bonus damage and missile speed* that PD 9 gives you and not the PD 10 that you have on your character.
If you only got 120 wpf, then you will only have an effective PD 8 and so on.

Also note that the wpf you need for each lvl of PD actually removes that much wpf from your character, so getting more PD may or may not reduce your accuracy. See footmark for why.


*Possibly an extra accuracy bonus too, but cRPG might have removed that and/or that's why the wpf penalty for PD negates.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Bubu on June 27, 2014, 01:20:38 am

I really think weapons should have a chance to break when parrying. The force, sharpness, damage type, and speed of the blade colliding with it might be taken into account, to make this more realistic. if that is daunting, then just a really low chance, like 0.01% per parry for sturdy weapons.

These long, endless duels where a flimsy looking sword is fending off someone's every attack... because it's a twitchy bastard behind the keyboard who has the reaction time to block anything coming at him... has to stop.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on June 27, 2014, 02:43:46 am

Quote from: Jarlek on June 26, 2014, 03:20:03 pm

WPF/PD penalty stuff

Formula's not quite 14 * PD, the penalty gets lower and lower as you add more PD, though I have no idea if it still applies if your PD is over what the bow can possibly overdraw.

Code: [Select]

var penalty = 0;

if(weaponType == "Bow")
penalty = - Math.round((Math.max(14 * ps - Math.pow(1.5,ps), 0)) * 10) / 10; //round to nearest decimal place
if(weaponType == "Throwing")
penalty = - (ps * 11);
return penalty;

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: agweber on July 15, 2014, 06:57:14 pm

Where is this code viewed from? I'm not at home to go browsing the local installed files, but is it accessible to anyone with c-rpg installed?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Breidr on July 15, 2014, 07:06:05 pm

It says that shield skill affects shield speed.  Any idea what each point in shield skill does in this regard?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tydeus on July 21, 2014, 07:59:27 pm

The wpf per PD formula is now final wpf= wpf - (14*PD - max((1.35^PD)-35,0))

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: San on July 22, 2014, 12:05:16 am

Correction: wpf= wpf - (max(14*PD - (1.35^PD)-35,0))

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Rafesan on September 12, 2014, 11:35:37 am

Hey,

i wanted to ask if there is a fundamental difference between the animation speed of 2h and polearm. so if i compare the time until a strike hits with both types on equal wpf and agi/weight are they the same or is one faster?

hope i am not asking something that has been answered 200 times, couldnt find it in the thread.

thx!

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: korppis on September 12, 2014, 02:20:47 pm

Quote from: Rafesan on September 12, 2014, 11:35:37 am

Hey,

i wanted to ask if there is a fundamental difference between the animation speed of 2h and polearm. so if i compare the time until a strike hits with both types on equal wpf and agi/weight are they the same or is one faster?

hope i am not asking something that has been answered 200 times, couldnt find it in the thread.

thx!

AFAIK side swings are pretty much the same. Polearm overhead is much faster than 2h though.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Digglez on September 12, 2014, 08:41:37 pm

Does expending throwing ammo (complete stack) decrease your weight and speed you up?  Or are you bound to what is in your equip screen or until you drop a stack?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on September 12, 2014, 09:05:24 pm

If it's anything like ladders in strat, the weight still affects you after you throw the ladder.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Dooz on September 16, 2014, 03:23:07 pm

For archery, is the only thing accuracy effects the size of the reticule? Or is there variation between where the reticule is pointed and where the arrows land, and it's greater with lower accuracy and vice versa? Also, how much does a smaller reticule matter if you're shooting in third person, and are using the bottom of the whole thing to aim anyway, not the dead center? I'm trying to decide between 18/24 and 21/21, and if the extra accuracy with 8wm vs. 7wm is worth the loss of the 1PD, which I might need with non-loomed stuff on an alt.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Falene on October 23, 2014, 12:09:02 am

Hey guys.
I don't know most formulas and I'm not a game mechanics guru, but I was decided after patch 0.4.0.0 to understand a few of those mechanics.

I was trying to make sense of the Armor Weight / Strength / IF / WPF relationship. This may be old news to most of you, but in the process I've come up with a few tables, and I think those tables helped me a great deal to visualize some of the stuff happening. I find those tables quite useful, so I'll post them here, hoping that some of you may find them useful also :)
Note : most values and conclusions here are drawn from the current Character planner (http://tinyurl.com/crpgcalc), which I assume is up to date.

First, a recap. The weight of all armor pieces your character wears negatively impacts your WPF. This impact can be really significant.

For the purpose of moving speed calculations, weight of feet, body, hand and head armour are added up equally to the total weight you carry. This is not so when it comes to WPF penalties.
Inside WPF penalty formula, Body Armour weight and Feet Armour weight have the same influence ; but Head Armour weight is twice as severe, and Glove Armor weight six times as severe (contrary to the factor of 4 pre-patch, as written by the OP).
=> Pondered Armor Weight (PAW) = BodyWeight + FeetWeight + (HelmetWeight * 2) + (GloveWeight * 6)

(click to show/hide)

Once you know PAW, you may start having an idea of the WPF penalty. At 6 PAW and below, there is none. After that, as a rule of thumb, the base penalty (BP) starts growing 1:1 along with the PAW, then quickly tends to asymptotically follow a 1.75 BP increase per PAW point.
I haven't been able to deduce the exact forumla, but below is an empirical plot of the PAW-to-BP relation : X-axis is the Pondered Armor Weight, Y-axis is the Base Penalty :
visitors can't see pics , please register or login

(Using current gear, max body + feet weight is around 32, max glove weight is 2, max helmet weight is 4 => max PAW is around 52)

The exact value of Base Penalty BP is applied as is, as a percentage penalty, to the WPF of any ranged weapon (throwing, crossbow, bow). A Base Penalty of 30 thus means 30% penalty to your WPF in, say, throwing weapons. That is, 45 points penalty if you had invested 150 points in it, leaving you with 105 effective WPF.
For melee weapons, the WPF percentage penalty is two thirds of the Base Penalty. Taking the same example of BP 30, that is 20% penalty on 150 invested WPF, which means 30 points are subtracted from it, leaving you with 120 effective WPF.

Things look bad for armor, heh ? Well, not hopelessly bad. Above 15 strength, you character starts to mitigate some of those penalties. At 4 IF and higher also. IF influence and strength influence are not cumulative, though. Whichever has most impact is used. 4 IF has same impact than 21 strength, after that each IF point is as good as 6 more strength. The remaining of this post will show a few simulations of this effect.

Note : I guess the true formula integrates oddities such as caps, min and maxes stuff based on str and IF directly inside it, and live happily ever after without even the slightest notion of a "Base Penalty". But hey, modeled that way, those results do hold in fact, and I find it much simpler to think about it.

(click to show/hide)

Armor weight : 37.1 ; Pondered Armor Weight : 50.9 ; Base Penalty : 70.9

WPF percentage penalties based on strength and IF :

	Ranged |	Melee	|..............	With nothing-in-hand* |	Running Speed*
15 str or below, less than 4 IF :	70.9%	47.3%	|	Agi 3, Ath 1 :	67%
With 18 str :	69.1%	46.1%	|	Agi 6, Ath 2 :	69%
With 21 str or 4 IF :	67.4%	44.9%	|	Agi 9, Ath 3 :	71%
With 24 str :	65.6%	43.7%	|	Agi 12, Ath 4 :	73%
With 27 str or 5 IF :	63.8%	42.5%	|	Agi 15, Ath 5 :	75%
With 30 str :	62.1%	41.4%	|	Agi 18, Ath 6 :	77%
With 33 str or 6 IF :	60.4%	40.3%	|	Agi 21, Ath 7 :	79%
With 36 str :	58.6%	39.1%	|	Agi 24, Ath 8 :	81%
With 39 str or 7 IF :	56.9%	37.9%	|	Agi 27, Ath 9 :	83%
With 8 IF :	53.5%	35.7%
With 9 IF :	50.0%	33.3%
With 10 IF :	46.6%	31.1%
With 11 IF :	43.3%	28.9%
With 12 IF :	39.9%	26.6%
With 13 IF :	36.6%	24.4%

Which gives us the first rule : "Thou shall nevah play ranged under a full pile of steel, when not blessed by Heracles"
The second rule being : "Thou shall avoid playing melee under same pile, if thou are less than a colossus (unless thou feel naught but contempt for melee WPF)."
And a third rule : "Thou shall NOT reply to this post just to point out that a 15-strength character ain't able to wear that gear (unless thou feel trolley)."

(click to show/hide)

Armor weight : 29.7 ; Pondered Armor Weight : 39.7 ; Base Penalty : 51.4

WPF percentage penalties based on strength and IF :

	Ranged |	Melee	|..............	With nothing-in-hand* |	Running Speed*
15 str or below, less than 4 IF :	51.4%	34.3%	|	Agi 3, Ath 1 :	68%
With 18 str :	49.7%	33.1%	|	Agi 6, Ath 2 :	70%
With 21 str or 4 IF :	48.0%	32.0%	|	Agi 9, Ath 3 :	73%
With 24 str :	46.3%	30.9%	|	Agi 12, Ath 4 :	75%
With 27 str or 5 IF :	44.6%	29.7%	|	Agi 15, Ath 5 :	77%
With 30 str :	42.9%	28.6%	|	Agi 18, Ath 6 :	79%
With 33 str or 6 IF :	41.3%	27.5%	|	Agi 21, Ath 7 :	81%
With 36 str :	39.6%	26.4%	|	Agi 24, Ath 8 :	83%
With 39 str or 7 IF :	37.9%	25.3%	|	Agi 27, Ath 9 :	85%
With 8 IF :	34.7%	23.1%
With 9 IF :	31.4%	20.9%
With 10 IF :	28.2%	18.8%
With 11 IF :	25.0%	16.7%
With 12 IF :	21.8%	14.5%
With 13 IF :	18.8%	12.5%

(click to show/hide)

Armor weight : 22.5 ; Pondered Armor Weight : 32.5 ; Base Penalty : 39.3

WPF percentage penalties based on strength and IF :

	Ranged |	Melee	|..............	With nothing-in-hand* |	Running Speed*
15 str or below, less than 4 IF :	39.3%	26.2%	|	Agi 3, Ath 1 :	69%
With 18 str :	37.6%	25.1%	|	Agi 6, Ath 2 :	71%
With 21 str or 4 IF :	36.0%	24.0%	|	Agi 9, Ath 3 :	74%
With 24 str :	34.3%	22.9%	|	Agi 12, Ath 4 :	76%
With 27 str or 5 IF :	32.7%	21.8%	|	Agi 15, Ath 5 :	78%
With 30 str :	31.1%	20.7%	|	Agi 18, Ath 6 :	80%
With 33 str or 6 IF :	29.5%	19.7%	|	Agi 21, Ath 7 :	83%
With 36 str :	27.9%	18.6%	|	Agi 24, Ath 8 :	85%
With 39 str or 7 IF :	26.3%	17.5%	|	Agi 27, Ath 9 :	87%
With 8 IF :	23.1%	15.4%
With 9 IF :	20.0%	13.3%
With 10 IF :	16.9%	11.3%
With 11 IF :	13.9%	09.3%
With 12 IF :	11.0%	07.3%
With 13 IF :	08.8%	05.4%

(click to show/hide)

Armor weight : 14.4 ; Pondered Armor Weight : 22.1 ; Base Penalty : 22.5

WPF percentage penalties based on strength and IF :

	Ranged |	Melee	|..............	With nothing-in-hand* |	Running Speed*
15 str or below, less than 4 IF :	22.5%	15.0%	|	Agi 3, Ath 1 :	70%
With 18 str :	20.9%	13.9%	|	Agi 6, Ath 2 :	73%
With 21 str or 4 IF :	19.4%	12.9%	|	Agi 9, Ath 3 :	75%
With 24 str :	17.8%	11.9%	|	Agi 12, Ath 4 :	78%
With 27 str or 5 IF :	16.3%	10.9%	|	Agi 15, Ath 5 :	80%
With 30 str :	14.8%	09.9%	|	Agi 18, Ath 6 :	83%
With 33 str or 6 IF :	13.3%	08.9%	|	Agi 21, Ath 7 :	85%
With 36 str :	11.9%	07.9%	|	Agi 24, Ath 8 :	88%
With 39 str or 7 IF :	10.4%	06.9%	|	Agi 27, Ath 9 :	90%
With 8 IF :	07.6%	05.1%
With 9 IF :	04.9%	03.3%
With 10 IF :	02.3%	01.5%
With 11 IF or more :	negl.	negl.

(click to show/hide)

Armor weight : 8.9 ; Pondered Armor Weight : 11.3 ; Base Penalty : 8.4

WPF percentage penalties based on strength and IF :

	Ranged |	Melee	|..............	With nothing-in-hand* |	Running Speed*
15 str or below, less than 4 IF :	08.4%	05.6%	|	Agi 3, Ath 1 :	71%
With 18 str :	07.0%	04.7%	|	Agi 6, Ath 2 :	74%
With 21 str or 4 IF :	05.7%	03.8%	|	Agi 9, Ath 3 :	77%
With 24 str :	04.3%	02.9%	|	Agi 12, Ath 4 :	80%
With 27 str or 5 IF :	03.0%	02.0%	|	Agi 15, Ath 5 :	83%
With 30 str :	01.8%	01.2%	|	Agi 18, Ath 6 :	85%
With 33 str or 6 IF :	00.7%	00.5%	|	Agi 21, Ath 7 :	88%
With 36 str or 7 IF:	negl.	negl.	|	Agi 24, Ath 8 :	91%
			|	Agi 27, Ath 9 :	93%

That's it for the tables. Now, what does it tell us ?

(click to show/hide)

First, one could ask if that factor of 6 for gloves makes gloves efficient at all for improving body armor, in a WPF standpoint, as compared to a heavier chest armor.
Short answer : [edit, corrected conclusions] when loomed and used together with a hard chest armor, most of the time, yes still.

Most hard (mail or above) gloves give slightly less than a 1:1 armor increase per Pondered Armor Weight increase. This ratio is equal or better to the derivative of the Chest Armor graph only on the far right, heavy side of the curve. But when loomed, this ratio for gloves really gets okay, as one can see in the graphs below (Where X-Axis is Pondered Armor Weight and Y-Axis is armor value. Unloomed in blue, Max heirloom level in red) :

Best Body Armour from lowest weight on Gloves.
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Wearing unloomed leather gloves is almost always a bad idea for your WPF as soon as you reach 6 PAW, though.

Best Body Armour from lowest weight on Chest Armors.
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So, the better ratio using loomed gloves stands true for most of the hard armors (around 9+) except across a gap around armors of 13-14 base weight, and another gap just above 20.

For the record, Best Head Armour from lowest weight on Helmets  8-)
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Of course, from a movement speed standpoint, glove armor effectiveness still shines the most.
And from a cool skin standpoint, then by all means, do as you wish  :D

(click to show/hide)

Since being even moderately armored means that strength has also an impact on WPF, what to increase most if you want to max out WPF ? Strength or Agility ?

3 Agi 1WM makes a single WPF to 45. err... let's start with that, now, shall we ?
Going to 6 Agi 2WM makes a single WPF to 76. A 31 base WPF increase.
Going to 9 Agi 3WM makes a single WPF to 100. A 24 base WPF increase.
Going to 12 Agi 4WM makes a single WPF to 121. A 21 base WPF increase.
Going to 15 Agi 5WM makes a single WPF to 139. A 18 base WPF increase.
Going to 18 Agi 6WM makes a single WPF to 155. A 16 base WPF increase.
Going to 21 Agi 7WM makes a single WPF to 170. A 15 base WPF increase.
Going to 24 Agi 8WM makes a single WPF to 184. A 14 base WPF increase.
Going to 27 Agi 9WM makes a single WPF to 198. A 14 base WPF increase.
Going to 30 Agi 10WM makes a single WPF to 210. A 12 base WPF increase.
Going to 33 Agi 11WM makes a single WPF to 223. A 13 base WPF increase.
Going to 36 Agi 12WM makes a single WPF to 234. A 11 base WPF increase.
Going to 39 Agi 13WM makes a single WPF to 246. A 12 base WPF increase.

Difference in WPF from adding 3 agility points and max out WM by one more is thus between 31 (3 to 6 agi, 1 to 2 WM : 45 to 76 on a single WPF) and 11 (33 to 36 agi, 11 to 12 WM : 223 to 234 on a single WPF)

When max difference in WPF penalty from adding 3 strength points is around 1.7% for ranged, and around 1.1% for melee.

1.7% of 234 is around 4 points.
=> We're pretty much assured that increasing agility by 3 and WM by 1 is always more efficient for adding more WPF than increasing strength by 3.

If, for some reason though, you're playing a ranged with high strength, 1 or 2 IF already, and are left with 7 skill points, you may invest those 7 skill points in IF as opposed to convert them to 3 agi 1 WM. You may get better effective WPF overall (4 or 5 IF above 3 factored by 3.4% of 170-ish is a 20 to 30 effective WPF increase ! more than you could get from one WM point).

That'll be all for tonight, folks.

[Edit] : I've just realized that "Pondered" means nothing near what I meant  :oops:. I meant "Pondérée" as the word "Weighted" in "Weighted Average".
But since that post is about item weight all over the place, I don't feel like replacing Pondered by Weighted everywhere and keep it clear (or I'm being lazy...).
Oh, well... cheer up, you've just learned a new french word  :P

[Edit] (*) : For the fun, I've tried to add, for each gear example above, an evaluation of the running speed with different agi builds, using WaltF4 curves (http://forum.melee.org/beginner%27s-help-and-guides/running-in-crpg/). I guess those mechanics were hard coded by M&B team and thus didn't evolve much. I've taken the liberty of eye-smoothing WaltF4 graphs, and I'm taking the lower left of his graph as a reference speed of 100% (which should roughly correspond to the speed of a 10 Athletics-guy running around with no armor and no weapon).
Note : carrying other stuff, as well as holding a weapon in hand may alter those speed values in a non linear way, based on weapon weight and length. Please refer to WaltF4 post for further information.
Further note : As pointer out by somebody in the speed thread, those graphs on running speeds may not accurately reflect differences in acceleration, which, to my knowledge, are yet to be thoroughly tested.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Ujio on October 24, 2014, 11:35:40 pm

Quote from: Jarlek on June 21, 2014, 03:21:28 pm

http://forum.melee.org/beginner's-help-and-guides/running-in-crpg/

That last link is where you can get the most information about movement speed.

WaltF4s tests are kinda old though (that one is from 2011), but I don't think they changed how movement speed worked at any point so...

Cheers for the detailed explanation!

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: chaosegg on February 28, 2015, 02:35:58 am

For any items,
does difficulty go up, as heirloom level goes up?

Especially, does horse difficulty increase as you heirloom them?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Patoson on February 28, 2015, 09:26:44 pm

Difficulty doesn't change when looming, nor does the upkeep. If you click on the icon of the item in the shop and then click on the tab "ranks", you can see what looming changes.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tomeusz on March 15, 2015, 02:49:36 pm

changing weapons reduce movement speed? Iam not sure. Also does blocking with hands reduce dmg of headshots? Jumping from buildings add speed dmg to weapon dmg?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Patoson on March 15, 2015, 03:23:06 pm

• When you switch weapons, yes, you slow down, just like when you block or nudge.
• Covering your face, by blocking without a weapon, or blocking right with a polearm, makes projectiles hit the arms instead of your face, so yes.
• I don't think so.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: fanpaopao on March 29, 2015, 03:06:51 pm

i have a question. how does  distance affect  ranged damage?  i know i will deal low damage if i shooting  far away from my target , but what is the exact formula about this?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tomeusz on March 30, 2015, 01:10:51 pm

Guide is sieeeet. Many game mechanics not described here.

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Tomeusz on May 24, 2015, 06:22:39 pm

agility increase weapon swing/shoot time?

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Fjup on July 10, 2015, 01:42:59 pm

Hello, I am trying to start over after a year of innactivity and I am a little bit lost. Doey anybody please know the current WPF weight threshold formula? I've found these:
4.1.0: max(6, Str/3 + IF)
4.0.0: max(IF*2, strength/3 + 1) with a minimum of 6

idk what version is server running on because of this (http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/patch-preview!/) thread...? Would be very nice (and easier for newbies) if real WPF could be seen in the web interface (same as many other hidden mechanics...) :rolleyes:

Title: Re: Game mechanic megathread!
Post by: Jarl_Onurb on January 12, 2018, 12:28:22 am

Bump

I need an updated Efective WPF formula. Thank you very much.