cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Game Balance Discussion => Topic started by: Zisa on November 03, 2011, 04:52:41 pm

Title: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Zisa on November 03, 2011, 04:52:41 pm
I blame the crapo lance radius for the current crop of even more cowardly cav - most now gravitate towards 1h, and have obviously discovered bump stab. Aside from the usual bump slash which was dirty enough (or bump miss, turn around, bump repeat).

Irritants:
It seems faster then an unmounted 1 h stab.

Hitting the horse in the face does not help - horse does not flinch, nor does rider who just stabs you in the face.

Silly stab through horse's neck (since warband beta) does not help either.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Patricia on November 03, 2011, 07:50:10 pm
Let's not forget the great lance's reach that the 1h stab on horseback has.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Diomedes on November 03, 2011, 07:59:34 pm
I've noticed the speed thing too.  I don't have enough experience with it to know what's actually going on (e.g. is the model outpacing the animation?  is the sword actually reaching that far?  etc.) but it does come off as inhumanly fast in many cases.  It's also frustrating as heck to fight 1h cav on Destriers now since Destriers aren't 1-hit, and they always get a lightning follow-up strike.

So:
1.  We need to know what's going on here
- quite important in this is whether or not its increased speed gives the stab a substantial speed bonus as well, regardless of the horse's speed
2.  We need to know precisely which weapons it affects
- does this apply to only pure 1-handed swords or 2-handers used as 1-handers as well?
- does this apply to ALL 1-handed swords?
3.  We need to know whether it's balanced
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Zisa on November 03, 2011, 08:19:31 pm
3. trick question right?
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Spawny on November 03, 2011, 08:59:27 pm
It's also frustrating as heck to fight 1h cav on Destriers now since Destriers aren't 1-hit, and they always get a lightning follow-up strike.

Yeah, 1h cav players shouldn't be allowed on a horse that needs more than 1 hit to go down! BOO!!!

NERF!!!!

Pro tip:
Downblock+jump to the side. As you would when facing lancer cav.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Casimir on November 03, 2011, 09:25:12 pm
1h thrust from horseback has always been strange, but 1h cav is far from OP
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Penitent on November 03, 2011, 09:40:54 pm
OH god, please don't nerf cav more/again.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Diomedes on November 03, 2011, 09:44:08 pm
Yeah, 1h cav players shouldn't be allowed on a horse that needs more than 1 hit to go down! BOO!!!

NERF!!!!

Pro tip:
Downblock+jump to the side. As you would when facing lancer cav.

I don't mean to say it's OP, just that it's irregular.  As a shielder I can't block incoming attacks immediately, especially if they're as fast as these cav-stabs.  Regular lancers are more straightforward because of their very limited area of attack.  Cav-stabbers, though, can attack faster than lances and within a far wider angle.  This is where it's uncommonly difficult for me.  This is one of the things which prompted #3 in my first post.

I don't intend to avoid the enemy but to kill them.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Digglez on November 03, 2011, 10:36:15 pm
#1 NA 1h'er Cav here...

Its not a bump stab, its a stab bump.  Your stab hits BEFORE the person is bumped.  If you sat there and downblocked you would only take charge dmg from the horse or you could just jump away while downblocking just like lances.

Its quite balanced, because if you miss your stab (which isnt that hard) you are completely defenseless.  I have died countless times missing my target.

This stab attack is an actual equalizer for 1h cav.  It is the only attack I use against an aware and READY victim, and it is also a target of last resort...due to how risky it is, you are much better finding another target or someone to bump for teammates.

Lancers get couching, 1h get frontal stabs. 

Dont change a thing.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Dezilagel on November 03, 2011, 10:37:39 pm
#1 NA 1h'er Cav here...

 :lol:
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 03, 2011, 10:45:32 pm
#1 NA 1h'er Cav here...

Not even close.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: POOPHAMMER on November 03, 2011, 10:47:46 pm
#1 NA 1h'er Cav in my own little mind...

Fixed
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Zisa on November 03, 2011, 11:01:27 pm
#1 NA 1h'er Cav here...

Its not a bump stab, its a stab bump.  Your stab hits BEFORE the person is bumped.  If you sat there and downblocked you would only take charge dmg from the horse or you could just jump away while downblocking just like lances.

Its quite balanced, because if you miss your stab (which isnt that hard) you are completely defenseless.  I have died countless times missing my target.

This stab attack is an actual equalizer for 1h cav.  It is the only attack I use against an aware and READY victim, and it is also a target of last resort...due to how risky it is, you are much better finding another target or someone to bump for teammates.

Lancers get couching, 1h get frontal stabs. 

Dont change a thing.
Complete and utter shite, because as a so called last resort why do so many of them ride around with the stab cocked?

TW never fixed it because 1h cav were food for lancers. Now that you've managed to fuck lancers we have this shitty bump cav.

And yes, PROS know it is BUMP STAB, thus unblockable.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Smoothrich on November 03, 2011, 11:22:55 pm
#1 NA 1h'er Cav here...

I have died countless times missing my target.


Doesn't sound like #1 cav to me.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 03, 2011, 11:24:13 pm
Complete and utter shite, because as a so called last resort why do so many of them ride around with the stab cocked?

TW never fixed it because 1h cav were food for lancers. Now that you've managed to fuck lancers we have this shitty bump cav.

And yes, PROS know it is BUMP STAB, thus unblockable.

The 1handed thrust on horseback is actually different in CRPG than in native.
I think it is a pretty bullshit animation but lance cavalry is still just much much better than 1handed cav so it shouldn't be nerfed imo.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Digglez on November 04, 2011, 08:58:22 am
Complete and utter shite, because as a so called last resort why do so many of them ride around with the stab cocked?

Because they're preying on people who arent very good, just like most lancers.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Zisa on November 04, 2011, 05:06:40 pm
Because they're preying on people who arent very good, just like most lancers.
Rubbish.

You also can not say it balances with couch. Couch you can riposte if lucky, dodge if you see it.

Hold downblock next time you get bump stabbed.. let me know how it works out for you.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 04, 2011, 05:10:48 pm
Rubbish.

You also can not say it balances with couch. Couch you can riposte if lucky, dodge if you see it.

Hold downblock next time you get bump stabbed.. let me know how it works out for you.

Downblock and jump to the side.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Zisa on November 04, 2011, 05:24:03 pm
Downblock and jump to the side.
Do that when you turn around and there is the cav.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Jarlek on November 04, 2011, 11:13:13 pm
Do that when you turn around and there is the cav.
Worked like a charm :D
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: duurrr on November 05, 2011, 02:15:49 am
the metagame being so range based makes 1h cav much more viable

nerf range you nerf 1h cav
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Digglez on November 05, 2011, 08:09:49 am
i recorded a video today to prove that the stabs land before bumps, but in-game sound wasnt recorded, so I'll redo it later.

You can test it yourself. have someone with an arena shield stand there and block, charge in and stab. the shield gets hit first.  if it was a bump stab the shield wouldnt be taking hits.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Dezilagel on November 05, 2011, 12:21:06 pm
i recorded a video today but video wasnt recorded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVmBAd76kak&feature=related
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 05, 2011, 01:14:28 pm
i recorded a video today to prove that the stabs land before bumps, but video wasnt recorded, so I'll redo it later.

You can test it yourself. have someone with an arena shield stand there and block, charge in and stab. the shield gets hit first.  if it was a bump stab the shield wouldnt be taking hits.

That is because you are doing it wrong, you have to bump first then release or release JUST before the bump hits.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Dezilagel on November 05, 2011, 01:16:01 pm
That is because you are doing it wrong, you have to bump first then release or release JUST before the bump hits.

No, he's the n'1 NA cav. That means YOU'RE doing it wrong.

Bow down.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Paul on November 05, 2011, 01:40:34 pm
The problem is even if you are number 1 in NA you are still only number 467 in EU or the worst in AUS(number 17).
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Casimir on November 05, 2011, 04:08:41 pm
Signature addition incoming ^^
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Digglez on November 05, 2011, 08:51:20 pm
If you wait for a bump, that means anyone with 2h sword or long 1h can easily dehorse and kill you in the same attack.  You stab first or you die

LLJK doesnt know shit about 1h bro.  Lady Gaga is your only 1h'er and he doesnt even play.  Last time I spec'd him he was pretty awful.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Zisa on November 05, 2011, 09:31:49 pm
If you wait for a bump, that means anyone with 2h sword or long 1h can easily dehorse and kill you in the same attack.  You stab first or you die

LLJK doesnt know shit about 1h bro.  Lady Gaga is your only 1h'er and he doesnt even play.  Last time I spec'd him he was pretty awful.
Not really. fresh horse takes damage, does not even flinch, dead infantry.

Advocating this silly fast stab and the ever annoying bump hit seems to indicate you can not cav without it.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Rumblood on November 05, 2011, 09:34:06 pm
i recorded a video today to prove that the stabs land before bumps, but in-game sound wasnt recorded, so I'll redo it later.

You can test it yourself. have someone with an arena shield stand there and block, charge in and stab. the shield gets hit first.  if it was a bump stab the shield wouldnt be taking hits.

That would just mean you are stabbing through your horses head and chest. Exploiting is the fun happy love time!
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Spawny on November 05, 2011, 10:06:16 pm
Not really. fresh horse takes damage, does not even flinch, dead infantry.

Advocating this silly fast stab and the ever annoying bump hit seems to indicate you can not cav without it.

So your idea of playing as cavalry is sacrificing your horse every attempt to kill someone?
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Zisa on November 05, 2011, 10:12:18 pm
So your idea of playing as cavalry is sacrificing your horse every attempt to kill someone?

Did I say that?

Fuck off scrub.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Digglez on November 05, 2011, 11:02:35 pm
its very easy to counter cav, but it means you have to play a support role and cant go killwhoring...which is why pugs dont do it. 

I can tell you've never played in Strategus Battle v2.0 with cav.  Enemy team has 1 pike for every 4 men and cav is basically useless.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Smoothrich on November 06, 2011, 02:39:35 am
I can tell you've never played in Strategus Battle v2.0 with cav.  Enemy team has 1 pike for every 4 men and cav is basically useless.

#1 NA cav again here, just wanna explain to everyone else how cavalry in Strat 2.0 was worthle...

visitors can't see pics , please register or login


Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: BADPLAYERold on November 06, 2011, 03:14:51 am
If you are gonna post screenshots of you farming kills on an underequipped and undermanned force then I am too  8-)
(click to show/hide)
what up.


Also digglez I did 1handed cavalry 1 gen, you aren't supposed to beat 2handers and polearms in a 1v1 unless they are bad. Doesn't change the fact that you can bumpstab people.
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: Tears of Destiny on November 06, 2011, 07:15:00 pm
The problem is even if you are number 1 in NA you are still only number 467 in EU or the worst in AUS(number 17).

This is so priceless!  :lol:
I agree, that is a problem that more scrubs need to accept!
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: isatis on January 04, 2012, 01:43:32 am
The problem is even if you are number 1 in NA you are still only number 467 in EU or the worst in AUS(number 17).

This is so priceless!  :lol:
I agree, that is a problem that more scrubs need to accept!

but tears, he was talking about the ping! (naive voice)
Title: Re: 1h cav stab seems fast
Post by: FRANK_THE_TANK on March 01, 2012, 10:28:07 am
This is so priceless!  :lol:
I agree, that is a problem that more scrubs need to accept!

You can come to AUS with me now tears and be number 2.