Ranged or melee - an eternal struggle.

[Arn_Magnusson]

As a word of introduction I'd like to tell you a few things. I'm a proud member of cRPG community since 2010, but I get active on forums (ussualy by eading only) at 2011. I playing EU servers only and I really want to enhance that this community is the greatest that I expierienced. That's topic is my view for ranged and melee, which is the biggest matter here, and finally I found some self-denial to write this topic (I'm one of the laziest persons on Earth :/), I was keeping that in mind for a... years or so.

To begin with (again :3) when I was playing cRPG I had some serious breaks, like two months, you know when I got on something - new game, hobby; but I think it'll let me discuss about the main matter.

I've a melee fighter for a long time, longer than archer or xbowman and horseman put all tougether, esspecialy with 2h or polearms. I found myself very happy with all encounters during the battle, little duels and the biggest satisfaction brought me this little wins upon my enemies, when I could fight-oof or kill 2-4 guys attacking me at once, killing admitted players on fight 1 vs 1. That was the essence of playing. In a meanwhile I was respecing (since feature have been realeased) very often, like 10-20 times during the generation (current 3rd gen) incorporating in many characters, ofcourse ranged too. Mostly I was playing archer, happy from each performed headshot and happy with every mace-kill (15-24 and mace when it was worth it ;)), or with rus bow when the "slot-patch" came. Through that months of playing I had a final look on this.

Melee: On battles and sieges (main gametypes) the essence isn't the blocking skills, it become about, the smartest player who can backstab someone well, or deal the final hit during "the gank", the timing, for some chambering. But to be honest after hours of playing this dose of beeing smart is patheticly low, it doesn't bring anymore satisfaction, it became mechanical. It's not the skill, it's just who have better ping, longer weapon, more teammates around him, knows the map better. I know this is a simulator of battleground where the skill is beeing stealth, smart (but in this game you don't really need it a lot, to be effective...), but the manual skills, of blocking, tricking your opponent in a fair fight (I mean stading in front of yourselves, the trick like a feint), it's been more and more about ganking and backstabbing. And that's why I found archery more satysfying.

Ranged: Some people say that playing archer is easy, mabye it's but still it's more challenging  for me than melee, the first reason is... Aiming. it's bring you a lot of "freedom" (I don't know how to call it), more ways to fail or succed, more depends on your skills (or mouse). As pure archer it's very hard to fight in melee, esspecialy more than just blocking. Playing archer also brings more realistic feelings, like on real battleground. Melee vs ranged relations are more fair and realistic than melee vs melee. That should be changed.

For  the final conclusion. I'd like to see more duel servers or more duel-gametypes (no idea yet what could that be). But the change can't be done with mechanics, it depends on peoples will, so I'd like to see more people on only melee servers or duel to find the satisfaction on the gameplay. I know that I can't express myself well, nut I hope you'll the "spirit" of this opinion.

Cheers.

[Haboe]

 

[Teeth]

I always think melee consists of two categories of skills. There is the fighting part, the ability to block, chamber, feint, kick, hold etc. Basically all that is related to killing people and defending yourself. Then there is the tactical part, knowing when to push, retreat, support, which target to pick, when to go where etc. Basically everything related to making the most of your abilities and pursuing victory for your team. This is more important on Battle than Siege.

Now the fighting skills have evolved to such an extent, that I do not enjoy duelling anymore, because armour, patience and kicks play too big a role. A lot of players are at a point where they can only improve very slowly and can basically do never ending fights with any other player if they played it safe. Yet there is still a lot of ground to gain in the tactical part and it is becoming more and more important as the fighting skills get closer to the ceiling. Nowadays being a hero in a duel doesn't get you anywhere on battle. I like it when I see mediocre players according to some, do extremely well in making their team win. That is why I find Battle much more interesting than Siege, your survival and succes are very dependent on your tactical decisions and screwing up means death.

Where I used to be blame my death on a failblock or bad footwork, now I can mostly trace my death back to going to wrong way or not sticking with the right teammates. Being able to improve on that keeps Battle and melee interesting for me.

[Byrdi]

I always think melee consists of two categories of skills. There is the fighting part, the ability to block, chamber, feint, kick, hold etc. Basically all that is related to killing people and defending yourself. Then there is the tactical part, knowing when to push, retreat, support, which target to pick, when to go where etc. Basically everything related to making the most of your abilities and pursuing victory for your team. This is more important on Battle than Siege.

Now the fighting skills have evolved to such an extent, that I do not enjoy duelling anymore, because armour, patience and kicks play too big a role. A lot of players are at a point where they can only improve very slowly and can basically do never ending fights with any other player if they played it safe. Yet there is still a lot of ground to gain in the tactical part and it is becoming more and more important as the fighting skills get closer to the ceiling. Nowadays being a hero in a duel doesn't get you anywhere on battle. I like it when I see mediocre players according to some, do extremely well in making their team win. That is why I find Battle much more interesting than Siege, your survival and succes are very dependent on your tactical decisions and screwing up means death.

Where I used to be blame my death on a failblock or bad footwork, now I can mostly trace my death back to going to wrong way or not sticking with the right teammates. Being able to improve on that keeps Battle and melee interesting for me.

TL;DR: Its all about the gank?

Also you turtled abit against me in the duel server last time we fought

Anyway combat skill plays a lot bigger role on EU_4, most of the times you die because you fail blocked or got too impatient. Not because you went the wrong way and ended up in a masive gang bang

I guess its all about tastes, if you prefere gank/teamwork servers or "Iwanttobeaheroandkilllotsofpeopleonmyown servers".

(click to show/hide)

I prefere the last

[Leshma]

On EU4 there are no more than 5 people (regulars) that can kill me couple times in a row. I usually play there when there's steamroll or range fest on EU1, to buff my kdr a bit. But ranged in there are quite deadly, especially Fin's band of throwers. When there isn't many ranged or cav players on EU4, I usually end up with 13/1 or similar score

Players that I can't kill easily are usually old school veterans (like Byrdi) or macro feinters like Qoray (seems to me that most macro abusers come from Germany and are underaged).

[Teeth]

Also you turtled abit against me in the duel server last time we fought

What does turtling mean in this context?

My point is exactly that ganking occurs, but that you can mostly prevent that from happening with proper battle awareness and decision making, which is where a lot of people have room to improve. EU_1 requires a bit of a different approach, I get that, but getting ganked is often your own fault. I find that ranged is too decisive on EU_4 and that I can not evade them, ganks are a lot slower than arrows.

[Prpavi]

So you personally think that ranged requires more "skill" than melee?

Ok im fine with that, like this everything in life is completley subjective and you find yourself struggling more playing an archer and you like to challenge yourself. we all do in a way.

So as much as my personal opinion on this topic collides with yours, You actually played enough classes and spent enough time circling though builds to come to your own conclusion and provide valid explanation for it and for that i will give you +1

[Arn_Magnusson]

Anyway combat skill plays a lot bigger role on EU_4, most of the times you die because you fail blocked or got too impatient. Not because you went the wrong way and ended up in a masive gang bang

I forgot to mention that, thanks. i need to admit that most of my time as a melee fighter I spent on EU_4 greatest server ever 

Ok im fine with that, like this everything in life is completley subjective and you find yourself struggling more playing an archer and you like to challenge yourself. we all do in a way.

Words of wisdom. Think about it!

[TheAppleSauceMan]

I always think melee consists of two categories of skills. There is the fighting part, the ability to block, chamber, feint, kick, hold etc. Basically all that is related to killing people and defending yourself. Then there is the tactical part, knowing when to push, retreat, support, which target to pick, when to go where etc. Basically everything related to making the most of your abilities and pursuing victory for your team. This is more important on Battle than Siege.

Yeah I've noticed this as well. You can be a great fighter/duelist or whatever, but not having that tactical skill will hinder you greatly in battle. I think a combination of both of those is what makes a round-changing player.

[Byrdi]

What does turtling mean in this context?

My point is exactly that ganking occurs, but that you can mostly prevent that from happening with proper battle awareness and decision making, which is where a lot of people have room to improve. EU_1 requires a bit of a different approach, I get that, but getting ganked is often your own fault. I find that ranged is too decisive on EU_4 and that I can not evade them, ganks are a lot slower than arrows.

Turtling = "never ending fights with any other player because they played it safe"

But on EU_ 1 there are some things you can't predict or avoid (even ganks) because there is always someone around the corner. The only way to avoid a gank on EU_1 is (in my oppinion) to gank yourself.

[Leshma]

Yeah, but if you survive one gank chances that your team will win dramatically increase. I used to survive up to 4 different groups of players back in the days, when average level was 28 and very few had looms. Now I'm lucky if I survive one gank but it's possible. There are three ways to play on EU1:

1) Join a strong clan and gank others (meh)
2) Play alone and get ganked most of time (it's fun)
3) Play ranged or cav

It's hard to survive because cheapest moves are now the strongest: lolstab, couched lance, hoplites, turtles, ranged, pikemen. No matter how bad group of players is, at least one will get lucky and fuck you up with some stab, couch, headshot etc.