cRPG

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => Topic started by: Kirman on January 11, 2018, 10:26:07 pm

Title: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Kirman on January 11, 2018, 10:26:07 pm
As build i'm using 21/15 and as a weapon i got (+3)Nordic Champion's Sword.  I've also tried (+0)blunt weapons and it seems like it is pointless to use a one-handed sword nowadays. What do you guys think? I don't wanna switch to blunt weapon cause they are short and my 5ath won't be enough. Also i know that my primary job is not damage dealing but yet i shouldn't be glancing that much or hit a guy 6-7 times to kill. I was thinking about 8ps but i'm still not sure. I might just quit being a shielder which sucks cause i really like to play as a shielder both ingame and on strat.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: BlackxBird on January 12, 2018, 12:22:16 am
Take a warhammer. This thing does more dmg than the two handed warhammer. And dont worry about the range.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: BlackxBird on January 12, 2018, 12:24:36 am
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on January 12, 2018, 12:23:09 am
What's that got to do with the "Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons."

One handed cut weapons are bullshit right now. Pretty simple. Take a steel pick or a warhammer, or weapons similar to them.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Kirman on January 12, 2018, 12:31:09 am
I'm using both NCS and Iberian Mace at the moment. Changing the weapon depending on stiuation but still i don't like the concept of blunt weapon.  However +0 Iberian Mace works much better than +3 NCS. Don't you think it's a problem?
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: BlackxBird on January 12, 2018, 12:36:48 am
Go 1H sword without a shield to be effective, with a shield u're just standing there doing nothing. Every crossbow with his lil mace does more dmg than u.

And tbh, no. I don't think it is a problem, as especially the blunt weapons are ridiculously op. Im partly loosing 80% hp just from one hit and basicly whenever they hit the head they knock u down. I mean like bar mace does 38 blunt dmg. Warhammer does 36.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Arthur_ on January 12, 2018, 09:37:44 am
Quote from: BlackxBird on January 12, 2018, 12:24:36 am
One handed cut weapons are bullshit right now. Pretty simple. Take a steel pick or a warhammer, or weapons similar to them.


I took a Steel pick in a strat siege. Hit some tincans 4-5 Times over head and they dont die, then I get 2 or 3 hitted by a fucking 1h bar mace that doesnt even look like a real weapon. Maybe the armor buff was a bad idea also?
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: _Tamra_ on January 12, 2018, 05:02:50 pm
I agree with blunt 1h weapons being weird, I can literally smash the shit out of everything with a warhammer while cut/pierce sucks ass in comparison.
Guess it's just the game.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Asheram on January 12, 2018, 05:06:46 pm
I use a Side Sword on Skillless I dont understand the problem. He is 21/18 7ps 6 ath with135 1h wpf and 76 xbow and 6 shield. He was 21/18 recently without shield and had throwing and only 80 1h wpf and still didnt see a problem.
Except I dont really like using a shield so I fight with it sheathed till I hit a ranged nest.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Kirman on January 12, 2018, 05:11:26 pm
It might be decent without a shield but i don't see the point on using a 1h sword without a shield unless  if you are crossbowman or something ranged. Try it with a shield.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Asheram on January 12, 2018, 05:15:52 pm
Quote from: Kirman on January 12, 2018, 05:11:26 pm
It might be decent without a shield but i don't see the point on using a 1h sword without a shield unless  if you are crossbowman or something ranged. Try it with a shield.
Well I dont see the point of using a 1 h sword with a shield unless you are being pelted by more than 1 ranged at the same time. But that is my personal opinion as I dont like the shield mechanics.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Jona on January 12, 2018, 05:18:27 pm
Quote from: HESKEYTIME on January 12, 2018, 12:06:07 am
(click to show/hide)

I've always felt that having an agi build really helps 1h  builds (I only really use cut weps on my alt), not just to compensate for their shorter reach but it just seems like the speed bonus is that much more important for their damage output. Dunno why this is, could of course just be placebo. Also, unless you've got wpf in 1h on your polearm main, don't forget that 100 wpf allows you to output the "normal" amount of damage, while anything >100 wpf lets you deal more damage, and anything <100 reduces your damage. If someone has the graphs that show damage v. armor and how the damage falls off faster for cut than blunt/pierce I feel like that'd be helpful. I remember that higher values of cut were obviously not as good as med-high amounts of blunt/pierce, but far, far better than the lower cut values. For instance (disclaimer: I'm pulling these number out of my ass to try and make a point) 45 cut against plate dealt 30 damage, while 35 cut against plate dealt only 20ish, which is pretty abysmal when anyone in full plate probably has a str build and therefore a lot of hp.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on January 13, 2018, 09:06:01 pm
Tried cut 1h weapons, but they ended up a side arm to my 1h bar mace. 90% of the server is in plate now so if you arent swinging 40+ cut then it wont do. Blunt gets the job dont well though, makes 1h quite enjoyable. I've asked for 1h buffs before but i dont think we will get any. If pick up a stabby 1h you can get by though, just forget about swinging and use it as you would a spear.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Thryn on January 13, 2018, 09:43:02 pm
first thing that i'm worried about when it comes to 1h is if tydeus messed with something that has ended up causing glances in some weird way that needs to be changed (something with animations maybe?)

i think that a gold reduction per tick change (ie lets get rid of hyperinflation) will hopefully lower armor values making cut more viable on the battlefield. some have voiced opinions that this will cause an increase in grinding and hurt server pop, but i think that the belief is a tad extreme.

cut damage itself could be buffed by reducing the armor soak penalties on it, but in turn you also are giving damage buffs to both polearm and cut weapons which would not be ideal.

it's also possible to test out nerfs to armor soak in general which will lower the effectiveness of plate once again and the biggest issue with that might be an increased dmg output of ranged weapons. however, ranged has its own armor soak modifiers so it is possible to increase the dmg penalties to ranged whilst lowering armor soak meaning that ranged dmg will be stagnant whilst melee damage as a whole will increase. at this point, cut will be better but so will pierce and blunt. if at this point it is understood that blunt and pierce are doing too much dmg, maybe those soak values can be changed accordingly as well. though im not sure how much of a difference the result from these actions will be compared to just a change in penalties on cut via armor soak.

lastly each and every 1h can be readjusted accordingly but that is going to take a long time and isn't a desirable path.


just thinking out loud
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Asheram on January 13, 2018, 09:54:09 pm
So just add rapiers, that would give a weapon that looks like a sword but can be as viable as the blunt/pierce hammer things. visitors can't see pics , please register or login


If the scottish sword could only stab like the sai I would MW it. I think thats what makes the sai so good, not having to make a miss click and doing a swing when you want the stab/pierce damage because every swing is a stab regardless.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Algarn on January 13, 2018, 11:02:23 pm
Quote from: Asheram on January 13, 2018, 09:54:09 pm
So just add rapiers, that would give a weapon that looks like a sword but can be as viable as the blunt/pierce hammer things. visitors can't see pics , please register or login


If the scottish sword could only stab like the sai I would MW it. I think thats what makes the sai so good, not having to make a miss click and doing a swing when you want the stab/pierce damage because every swing is a stab regardless.

Won't solve the problem, adding pierce 1hs isn't going to buff the ones needing it. Lowering the gold income won't either, cos everyone has millions stored in cash already.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Nightingale on January 14, 2018, 11:42:43 am
Quote from: Thryn on January 13, 2018, 09:43:02 pm
i think that a gold reduction per tick change (ie lets get rid of hyperinflation) will hopefully lower armor values making cut more viable on the battlefield. some have voiced opinions that this will cause an increase in grinding and hurt server pop, but i think that the belief is a tad extreme.

I am the one that voiced my opinion about anti-grinding. The mod isn't -healthy- enough persay to bring back grindy feeling things. Should focus more on the implementation of things like shop respecs, loom reforges, and loom points. It is my belief that allowing veterans and new players alike to swap +3s at a small cost will bring more life to the game as it would effectively remove punishment from trying new things. People often times find some renewed fun when trying new things.

All that said It is entirely possible to reduce gold gain per tick but keep XP high so grinding XP won't be as dreadful. The one thing I don't want to see is people wearing peasant gear so they can wear plate later... I believe this practice to be something from a bygone era that should remain in that time period. Though win/loss ratios would be more important Idk there are a lot of things to think about here. *on how to make the game feel more rewarding*
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Suedehead on January 14, 2018, 10:01:22 pm
22/21 with 3 ps and MW Grosses Messer - all is moreover ok
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: San on February 24, 2018, 12:14:24 am
It may be optimal to bring more than 1 weapon as a 1h. In fact, you can bring a shield and 2-3 weapons for every possible scenario. Short + spammy, long + slow, and a blunt/pierce weapon.
Without knowing your own damage, can't really say. Speed bonus + holding + head hits is a significant amounts of damage bonus from lower raw damage weapons.

Based on looking at the currently used soak/reduction cut values, low cut is pretty terrible vs. high armor.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Paul on February 24, 2018, 12:59:55 am
It's pretty realistic now I guess.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 25, 2018, 08:23:01 am
Yeah there is some realism to it now, gotta bring different damage types and such, but 1h cut damage is quite pathetic to be honest. The best way to play a 1her is to hybrid polearm and use that. People dont respect 1h at all and just spam because eventually you will just get lucky and outrange them, and deal 3x the damage. Or you can just spam kicks which reach longer than most 1h (kicks are really messed up).

I do enjoy the concept of having to use different damage types as a 1h, its just that theres so much armor to break through and blunt/pierce 1h are very short against heavy armor duelist builds in this mod where weapon reach is key.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Dalhi on February 25, 2018, 08:44:16 am
Quote from: Gravoth_iii on February 25, 2018, 08:23:01 am
Or you can just spam kicks which reach longer than most 1h (kicks are really messed up).


How can you complain about kicks and defend nudge at the same time  :shock:

You can avoid getting kicked as it stops character that is performing it, while nudge is bloody safe and it only work as intended in 1vs1, when outnambered it turns you into tenis ball  :lol:

With the amount of body armour that avarage player wear cut damage is unfixable unless some heavy economic factor hits.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 25, 2018, 01:18:04 pm
Quote from: Dalhi on February 25, 2018, 08:44:16 am
How can you complain about kicks and defend nudge at the same time  :shock:

You can avoid getting kicked as it stops character that is performing it, while nudge is bloody safe and it only work as intended in 1vs1, when outnambered it turns you into tenis ball  :lol:

With the amount of body armour that avarage player wear cut damage is unfixable unless some heavy economic factor hits.

Nudges arent a guaranteed free hit, its more like a disorienting move. I dont have as much issues fighting outnumbered as 1h cause i can bounce between everyone and spam rather effectively, but sure if you have a more defensive playstyle if screws you. I hardly get nudged at all, most who use it are easily identifiable and can be attacked during attempts. I dont get kicked that often either simply because not many people use it, but it is rather hard to approach and the damage you take is so much more than what you would deal.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: illogical on February 25, 2018, 02:20:07 pm
Cut 1h it's garbage for most gamers, not nerds. You kill archer, but not kill plate man or heavy armor man, plate man fuck you.
Now all players have +3 all armors and big money for repair all price items combination. Not have repair balance.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Silveredge on February 27, 2018, 01:32:21 am
I have always felt that Polearm kick was absolutely the furthest reaching kick for some strange reason.  Everyone should have the same range on kick, but over all these years, the jaw dropping "how did that kick even hit that guy" was always accompanied by a polearm user doing the kicking.  Does anyone else get dem feelz?

Edit: and I don't mean when people run into the polearm users kick, because that is common when you're trying to get in range.  I'm talking about when you really don't think that kick should have hit at the range you just saw it register at.
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Sandersson Jankins on February 27, 2018, 03:47:50 am
Quote from: Silveredge on February 27, 2018, 01:32:21 am
I have always felt that Polearm kick was absolutely the furthest reaching kick for some strange reason.  Everyone should have the same range on kick, but over all these years, the jaw dropping "how did that kick even hit that guy" was always accompanied by a polearm user doing the kicking.  Does anyone else get dem feelz?

Edit: and I don't mean when people run into the polearm users kick, because that is common when you're trying to get in range.  I'm talking about when you really don't think that kick should have hit at the range you just saw it register at.

i feel the same, but would also reckon that the players most likely to kick often are polearm players.

source: long-time kickspamming polearm player
Title: Re: Current situation of One-Handed (Cut) Weapons.
Post by: Gravoth_iii on February 27, 2018, 03:19:08 pm
Quote from: Silveredge on February 27, 2018, 01:32:21 am
I have always felt that Polearm kick was absolutely the furthest reaching kick for some strange reason.  Everyone should have the same range on kick, but over all these years, the jaw dropping "how did that kick even hit that guy" was always accompanied by a polearm user doing the kicking.  Does anyone else get dem feelz?

Edit: and I don't mean when people run into the polearm users kick, because that is common when you're trying to get in range.  I'm talking about when you really don't think that kick should have hit at the range you just saw it register at.

Probably more bound to the fact that polearms have to play around reach and so use longer weapons which makes baiting people into kicks much more common. 2h also play on range but they have other good tools like left and right swing both being good so spamming is very viable, and of course they have better feints so they dont really need the kick as often.