cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: Dexxtaa on April 04, 2013, 08:25:56 pm

Title: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Dexxtaa on April 04, 2013, 08:25:56 pm
I figured I'd post a couple tidbits that I found out in my experience playing cRPG. If anyone is willing to share their little lessons, you're more than welcome :D

Always better to be lucky than good
Personally, I make a horrid duelist. I'm a level 34; 24/15 mounted infantry build. I do well in battle not because I'm good at killing, but because I'm an opportunist. Shinock and I have a little score keeping game we play where we try to personally kill the other. Truthfully, Shinock would beat my face down any day of the week, in a 1v1. The only reason I can keep up with him is because I'm an opportunistic fighter. I sit around and take some swings, but most of all, I wait for the other person to be tied up, distracted, arrow stunned or just plain unaware. Engaging people who are fully aware of my presence, or can devote 100% of their focus on me doesn't sit well with me, tactically. "Why would I fight a guy head on risking the chance to lose, when I can simply engage him when he's busy, thereby increasing my odds of success?"

I admit that if I wanted to go head to head with the guy, I would. But as far as teamwork goes, dropping to a duel isn't going to help the team as a whole.

Synergy; it's a thing
Something I've been hooting from my mountaintop hermit house for years now. I reference the word "synergy" so frequently with people that it's become a running joke we throw around. But when it comes down to it, teamwork is always key. Even when I'm playing without TeamSpeak/Vent/Mumble/whatever, I tend to play more defensively with my team as best as I can. And when engaging opponents, I hold a side swing, so someone else can take an overhead. It's not about the score, it's about working together!

Combat Flow and Moving with the Current
There's a time to engage and there's a time to wait. The way this game works is generally "the bulk force moves forward, and everyone smashes each others' faces in." But there are nuances with regards to that. I always see very reputable "hero" characters carrying the spearhead of the team, and I'm happy for their board and scimitar builds, going out there and doing work. But in the event they overextend, there's no coming back.

As a second line "shock" trooper, I find that combat flow is a pretty good concept to be aware of; where you are relative to the team, where your team is relative to the other team, what troop composition (based on weapon type) is engaging where, and what angle the enemy composition is engaging our forces. There's a time to fight and a time to flee. When you have the upper hand; continue the momentum, but know when to stop. A reckless push usually ends up with the other team consuming the splinter "spearhead" force, since not everyone on the team has a shield, or is as willing to plow into a phalanx.

Combat awareness kind of comes into play here, since everyone is working towards the unified goal of "bashing in skulls and bathing in the blood of their enemies," paying attention to where your teammates are in conjunction with knowing when to strike and when to withdraw will definitely allow the team to function as a single entity.
~~

Just some things I noticed. If anyone has input (agree/disagree), I'd like to hear your thoughts!
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Nightingale on April 04, 2013, 11:00:50 pm
Always assume that xbower that you are "sneaking" up on knows you are there.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Ronin on April 04, 2013, 11:33:53 pm
Nicely written, but I find it's only for infantry fights. A cav/ranged won't be learning much from this.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Dexxtaa on April 05, 2013, 12:34:25 am
Nicely written, but I find it's only for infantry fights. A cav/ranged won't be learning much from this.

I'll definitely think about stuff for riders, but since I don't spend enough time as an archer or ranged, I won't claim to have any useful lessons for it.

I'm sure the ranged can definitely take something from Combat flow, though!
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: oprah_winfrey on April 05, 2013, 12:40:56 am
Nicely written, but I find it's only for infantry fights. A cav/ranged won't be learning much from this.

Stuff I learned about ranged

Point at enemies. Click.

Stuff I learned about cav

Ride up behind people that aren't paying attention/already fighting. Then when you get close either push the X key or left click.

The End
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 05, 2013, 10:18:00 am
All cavalry are assmen.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: [ptx] on April 05, 2013, 10:24:44 am
Always assume the three teammates directly to your sides will run away the moment those two enemies get closer, because fuck pikemen.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Tot. on April 05, 2013, 10:51:52 am
Always assume the three teammates directly to your sides will run away the moment those two enemies get closer, because fuck pikemen.

Just assume pub people are clueless idiots. You'll live longer.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Muki on April 05, 2013, 11:11:42 am
Iron flesh is not to help you survive from enemy attacks but from your own team
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Ronin on April 05, 2013, 11:32:10 am
Stuff I learned about ranged

Point at enemies. Click.

So prepare your anus, that will be penetrated by a lance. And let other infantry catch you. Because you will be only pointing at enemies and click. Good advice.

Stuff I learned about cav

Ride up behind people that aren't paying attention/already fighting. Then when you get close either push the X key or left click.

So don't calculate what your enemies and your allies will be moving, and bump everyone on your way. Also don't even think about enemy spearmen and get raped in seconds. Good advice.

The End

I can say the same thing for infantry: Get close at enemies, look at them and click. Sounds simple? It surely is, but there are nuances for being good in melee; as well as mounted and ranged.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Macropus on April 05, 2013, 12:57:57 pm
I sit around and take some swings, but most of all, I wait for the other person to be tied up, distracted, arrow stunned or just plain unaware. Engaging people who are fully aware of my presence, or can devote 100% of their focus on me doesn't sit well with me, tactically. "Why would I fight a guy head on risking the chance to lose, when I can simply engage him when he's busy, thereby increasing my odds of success?"
So true. Do not think you have to finish anyone you're fighting with at the moment. A good player should switch his targets often, striking those who are not aware of him. If it is 2 vs 2, don't duel like 1 vs 1 and another 1 vs 1. Help your teammate to finish the first guy quickly, then you'd easily deal with the second guy. Basically fighting with some good player 1 vs 1 in battle is a waste of time, except some situations when you can kill him really fast (like shielder that caught an archer or 2h vs pikeman).
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: warhamer on April 05, 2013, 03:47:28 pm
Not sure if this works for other people real well but I do this and it works. Basically if you have decent armor you can jump in between the enemy line with a long reaching 2h or poleaxe and swing while doing circles. It sounds idiotic and yes you can die from it but at times it has helped my team either in distracting the enemy or just killing people who weren't looking. I do this with 0 IF so basically I die by the time I finish or am almost dead but it helps my team in the long run. If it can help your team greatly sometimes it's worth it to sacrifice yourself. Do note that I am no master killer and don't get way high on the leader board less I'm lucky.
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Dexxtaa on April 05, 2013, 05:59:52 pm
Not sure if this works for other people real well but I do this and it works. Basically if you have decent armor you can jump in between the enemy line with a long reaching 2h or poleaxe and swing while doing circles. It sounds idiotic and yes you can die from it but at times it has helped my team either in distracting the enemy or just killing people who weren't looking. I do this with 0 IF so basically I die by the time I finish or am almost dead but it helps my team in the long run. If it can help your team greatly sometimes it's worth it to sacrifice yourself. Do note that I am no master killer and don't get way high on the leader board less I'm lucky.
(click to show/hide)

The day will come when you will be able to plow into the other team like that and still come out alive, brave warrior!
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Turboflex on April 05, 2013, 06:53:06 pm
great post Dexxtaa.

If your clan ever collapses you'd fit well into ours, we fight with the same sort of doctrine.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Turboflex on April 05, 2013, 06:54:57 pm
Not sure if this works for other people real well but I do this and it works. Basically if you have decent armor you can jump in between the enemy line with a long reaching 2h or poleaxe and swing while doing circles. It sounds idiotic and yes you can die from it but at times it has helped my team either in distracting the enemy or just killing people who weren't looking. I do this with 0 IF so basically I die by the time I finish or am almost dead but it helps my team in the long run. If it can help your team greatly sometimes it's worth it to sacrifice yourself. Do note that I am no master killer and don't get way high on the leader board less I'm lucky.
(click to show/hide)

This can work well against bad/sloppy players but decent ones will spot your pattern quickly and box you in or wait for your to circle into their kill field and bring you down.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Rhaelys on April 05, 2013, 06:58:47 pm
When fighting as an infantry of any type where there are 2+ enemies:

Always target switch when possible. A decent blocker will usually be able to block your attacks, but no matter how good that second person is at blocking, they can't actually block your attack if they don't realize or see that you're changing your choice of target to him/her. And as Macropus pointed out, 2 1v1s should actually be approached as a 2v1+1.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Dexxtaa on April 05, 2013, 07:06:14 pm
When I saw Rhaelys post, I thought it was going to be "NBOH"

great post Dexxtaa.

If your clan ever collapses again you'd fit well into ours, we fight with the same sort of doctrine.
#gottem
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: no_rules_just_play on April 05, 2013, 10:49:37 pm
footwork is key imo: i had internet problems today, my downloadlimit has run out and im on very bad connection. I had either delayed animations (when people attacked/blocked/got hit/etc...) but i could play quite average because i used alot of footwork. I was kind of playing blind and just guessing where they should strike. I do this all the time, but now my focus was really on it.
eg: if you run past a guy, block to that side, because he will either do a sideswing and hit your block or do an overhead and miss you. Thats actually the very basic and it will become an instinct. running through mobs will just become the same as blocking a guy that keeps hitting from the single direction.
You can even hold a right/left block and run through a mob while spinning in circles, catching every single incoming attack.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Gmnotutoo on April 05, 2013, 11:40:15 pm
You can hide parts of your body and head into the wall by holding left or right with a two handed sword while aiming at the ground.

I've learned how to play this game in an odd way of using its graphical limitations to stealth in corners or haystacks, letting enemies pass so I can either flank them or go after their ranged. You'd be surprised how many people don't pay attention to their surroundings, I get the feeling most players rely on movement to detect people rather than actively searching them out by textures.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Uther Pendragon on April 06, 2013, 01:25:59 am
Stuff I learned just now:

Never ask (even as a joke) for people to vote 1 on a banpoll directed at YOU.  :lol:
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: DUKE DICKBUTT on April 06, 2013, 10:32:21 am
You can hide parts of your body and head into the wall by holding left or right with a two handed sword while aiming at the ground.

I've learned how to play this game in an odd way of using its graphical limitations to stealth in corners or haystacks, letting enemies pass so I can either flank them or go after their ranged. You'd be surprised how many people don't pay attention to their surroundings, I get the feeling most players rely on movement to detect people rather than actively searching them out by textures.

I navigate by scent alone.  Unfortunately, everyone smells like shit.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Torp on April 06, 2013, 01:24:03 pm
When fighting as an infantry of any type where there are 2+ enemies:

Always target switch when possible. A decent blocker will usually be able to block your attacks, but no matter how good that second person is at blocking, they can't actually block your attack if they don't realize or see that you're changing your choice of target to him/her. And as Macropus pointed out, 2 1v1s should actually be approached as a 2v1+1.

This is key to fighting 1 vs. 2+ imo.
It can also be turned around as an advice for fighting 2 vs. 1 though: in my experience, you should focus om blocking more than attacking in those situations. Of course you have to be aggressive, but the reason switching targets work so well in 1 v 2 is that most people simply hold a left/right swing trying to get in range and release. This allows for the enemy to get a quick swing in, instead you should be blocking whichever direction the enemy is attack and get in a quick hit when he will be unable to block it due to blocking your friend's attack or holding an attack himself.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Ronin on April 06, 2013, 02:10:48 pm
Stuff I learned just now:

Never ask (even as a joke) for people to vote 1 on a banpoll directed at YOU.  :lol:
You're talking about me? :)
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Carthage on April 07, 2013, 02:21:34 am
When being a shielder and no one is around DON'T DROP THE SHIELD always assume a crossbow/bow is aimed at you. Also always let the 2hander feint away you just keep strafing left to right, to avoid a possible kick and to slowly push him/her into a wall or piss him/her off to the point you can get a safe swing in
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Gurnisson on April 07, 2013, 05:13:42 am
Always be aware. Always gank when possible. Enjoy your constant high multi.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Formless on April 07, 2013, 07:57:29 am
 

Always better to be lucky than good
Personally, I make a horrid duelist. I'm a level 34; 24/15 mounted infantry build. I do well in battle not because I'm good at killing, but because I'm an opportunist.

I am the same way, many times I out K:D better players not become I am better but because I take advantages when I can. 
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Equal on April 07, 2013, 05:35:23 pm
Some cavalry tips:

Always assume the spearmen are watching you
If you see someone walking in a straight line, chances are they're '~ing' you and will end up rearing your horse. You never want to risk rearing your horse, like Dex said you should be an opportunist, there will be a better chance later in the round (not to mention people will have low health later in the round!) to risk your horse for.

Horse Archers will kill your unarmored horse
If you're riding a courser or other lightly armored horse, you can get taken down with 3 arrows easily. I never recommend attacking a horse archer by yourself. If you're being pursued ride back to your team if possible or to the closest ranged ally, 9/10 times they will leave you alone. If your horse is armored then you can take more risks in taking them out.

Bumps r OP
In my opinion, bumping the enemy is the best way cavalry can help their team, setting their teammates up to kill them on the ground. Also when dealing with ranged, if you miss them with your lance/sword you can generally still run them over to prevent them from shooting for a few more seconds, and many lightly armored foes can even die in about 3-4 bumps later in the round. Your teammates won't be happy if you bump them either however.

And finally, always take the shot.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Phantasmal on April 09, 2013, 10:38:15 pm
Always assume that xbower that you are "sneaking" up on knows you are there.

A thousand times this. Any good xbowmen knows whats going on around them, especially at the end of the round. Rarely 1 time in 10 does someone actually get the jump on me.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Fanlaen on April 09, 2013, 11:09:43 pm
Couple of questions:

1) How do you deal with people who have shields as a 2H? Seems like they can just block your first hit and then your range advantage is lost right away. Then they just spam their faster attacks and either you block forever or you go for a hit and die.

2)How the hell do you kill cavalry? If I stand directly in front of them and try to thrust, I get run over. If I stand to the side and side swing, I hit their horse, but they usually kill me with the one swing.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Jarold on April 09, 2013, 11:22:35 pm
Very nice info!

BTW I felt the lack of Patrick in any of your post in this thread was......disturbing.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Taser on April 10, 2013, 12:36:28 am
Very nice info!

BTW I felt the lack of Patrick in any of your post in this thread was......disturbing.

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I do agree with you dex. That ~ key is so damn useful too. I use it constantly.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Pentecost on April 10, 2013, 01:10:10 am
Couple of questions:

1) How do you deal with people who have shields as a 2H? Seems like they can just block your first hit and then your range advantage is lost right away. Then they just spam their faster attacks and either you block forever or you go for a hit and die.

2)How the hell do you kill cavalry? If I stand directly in front of them and try to thrust, I get run over. If I stand to the side and side swing, I hit their horse, but they usually kill me with the one swing.

Regarding your first question, the answer is proper movement (most people call it footwork). If you can find someone who is willing to give you some training on the duel server, ask him to show you how to turn into your swings and to help you point out errors in your movement and/or facing. Learning how to integrate movement into your offense and defense is as important as competent blocking when it comes to being successful at melee: it makes your attacks land faster, gives you more opportunities to attack, gives you more time to block, and is the only way to adequately defend against crushthrough weapons.

Once you get the hang of footwork, the fact that you will in most cases be much more nimble than the person with the shield (due to how heavy the shield is) combined with how your weapon is longer, usually faster, and has much better attack animations means that you can potentially be getting two attacks to the shielder's 1 attack if you are playing correctly. Unless he is good, you will have the initiative the whole time and force him to play very defensively.

Regarding your second question, it depends on the 2h you are using. A greatsword is actually one of the best weapons you can have against cavalry, due to the fact that it has incredible range on the thrust and will almost always hit the horse of the cavalryman before his heavy lance hits you if you aim for his horse's head. Basically, you want to thrust towards the horse's head while rotating/strafing/jumping out of the way of his counterattack.

If you do not have a greatsword, then you want to stand still right until he's in attack range and then strafe right or left while swinging at his horse's legs. Speed bonus works both ways, and even the most heavily armored horses are counted as having 0 armor on their legs. This means that 1 good hit to the legs with a 2h will kill the majority of horses in 1 shot if the rider was coming at you full tilt.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Phantasmal on April 10, 2013, 01:43:09 am
If you do not have a greatsword, then you want to stand still right until he's in attack range and then strafe right or left while swinging at his horse's legs. Speed bonus works both ways, and even the most heavily armored horses are counted as having 0 armor on their legs. This means that 1 good hit to the legs with a 2h will kill the majority of horses in 1 shot if the rider was coming at you full tilt.

This is good if you have a high PS build. If you have a low PS build and shorter weapon (like me) I recommend aiming for the rider's legs. To hit the rider (before they hit you) move to a side early and start your sideswing a half second before they are in range. Your swing is still active and they will ride into it (dealing much more damage) and you will get the hit as they ride by.

Against lance cav, just move away from their horse and downblock. gg.

EDIT: Sorry, I misread your post and thought you were a shielder with a 1H. My apologies, this is only really relevant for 1Hers.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: Bronto on April 10, 2013, 02:28:55 am
Couple of questions:

1) How do you deal with people who have shields as a 2H? Seems like they can just block your first hit and then your range advantage is lost right away. Then they just spam their faster attacks and either you block forever or you go for a hit and die.

2)How the hell do you kill cavalry? If I stand directly in front of them and try to thrust, I get run over. If I stand to the side and side swing, I hit their horse, but they usually kill me with the one swing.

1) you can always spam and don't let them attack, just keep swinging. if they're good you're going to have to block or wait for them to try to hug you and kick.

2) time your stabs better or jump left swing right. if you're air born you're going to hit the rider not the horse.

EDIT: Also, dexxtaa, great point pointing out the flow/waves of battle. I always used to dread half way through the battle when all of a sudden Serge and his yellow tunic over mail, along with the chaos posse, would appear and he'd still be at full health cause he was SO SLOW. then he'd decimate the team because full health str build against and bunch of people who have been fighting for 2+ minutes and have all taken at least some damage. good times though good times. Where is Serge anyway? I haven't seen him in a loooooonnngggg tttiiiimmmeee.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: dynamike on April 10, 2013, 04:10:50 am
When I saw Rhaelys post, I thought it was going to be "NBOH"
#gottem

DAMNIT, you beat me to it Dexx. I was going to say non of your tips seem to stem from the NBOH rule book  :(

But very valid and good tips nonetheless. I also agree with Equal on his Cav assessments... and have one to add:


There is no friendly cav!

When fighting as cav I find my biggest enemy or obstacle to actually be friendly cav players. I can't count the amount of times when cav players that were trying to hunt down the same enemy as me got into my way (and I'm sure the other way around too) and reared my horse or lanced me instead of the enemy. This usually leads to insta death and me cursing out the "bad cavs" in TS.

Always stay clear of friendly cav, unless you are riding with an experienced player who is used to team up with you.
Title: Re: Stuff I Learned
Post by: WITCHCRAFT on April 10, 2013, 08:57:40 am
Iron flesh is not to help you survive from enemy attacks but from your own team

Can we change the website tool tip to this when you highlight ironflesh?