cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: sumusiko on March 25, 2013, 06:46:13 pm

Title: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: sumusiko on March 25, 2013, 06:46:13 pm
Started playing recently and noticed how op they are compared to who uses 2h.

Shield insta blocks any incoming attack just by right clicking once and you don't even need to guess where he is going to attack to counter it, you block it and leaves the enemy open for slashes.


When you use 2h you have to see and have amazing reflexes to be able to block his incoming attack the bad thing is that even if you do block it they just can keep on swinging without stopping and unless you have a super op attack speed 2h sword you will die a painfull death.


so on and so on.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Vodner on March 25, 2013, 06:51:13 pm
Quote
When you use 2h you have to see and have amazing reflexes to be able to block his incoming attack the bad thing is that even if you do block it they just can keep on swinging without stopping and unless you have a super op attack speed 2h sword you will die a painfull death.
With a balanced build and a SoW, I don't really have an issue preventing a 1h double swing unless I feint, hold, or mess up my footwork. At any rate, unless you have a high ping you are overstating the difficulty of blocking.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Tibe on March 25, 2013, 06:53:11 pm
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Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Fips on March 25, 2013, 06:55:20 pm
Nope, it's not.
Once you know how to block the shield is usally just in the way and the dmg is inferior than 2h/pole.

Although the crowd-control is very nice.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Ronin on March 25, 2013, 06:55:22 pm
For how long are you playing warband multiplayer?
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: sumusiko on March 25, 2013, 06:56:50 pm
Nope, it's not.
Once you know how to block the shield is usally just in the way and the dmg is inferior than 2h/pole.

Although the crowd-control is very nice.

The problem with 2h is that even when I manage to block ONCE I can't keep on blocking if he keeps spamming sword unless I have really good reflexes
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on March 25, 2013, 06:58:18 pm
Practice makes perfect

You will get better over time, i still suck at blocking and ive been playing since release  :lol:
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: no_rules_just_play on March 25, 2013, 06:58:38 pm
The problem with 2h is that even when I manage to block ONCE I can't keep on blocking if he keeps spamming sword unless I have really good reflexes
thats not the problem of your class, you just need to practice some more.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: MlotekPL on March 25, 2013, 06:59:33 pm
You just don't know how to abuse 2h :/
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: sumusiko on March 25, 2013, 07:00:36 pm
teach me the ways of abusing 2h
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Fips on March 25, 2013, 07:02:45 pm
The problem with 2h is that even when I manage to block ONCE I can't keep on blocking if he keeps spamming sword unless I have really good reflexes

Go to EU3 and ask someone for blocking advice and practice with the guys there. Usually some people around who are willing to help a new player out^^

It takes some time, but once you're there you will understand why 2h is superior in most situations =P
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: MlotekPL on March 25, 2013, 07:03:34 pm
Move left right swing,move right left swing,Backpedalling + stab or just backpedal 7/24 and spam.
Learn retard feints and drop your head down ( in game ofc).
And as everyone said,practice blocking,blocking is easier than holding shield for most of people  :lol:
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Kuujis on March 25, 2013, 07:18:18 pm
The only reason, why they MIGHT be OP is because shielders in siege are score-whores/magnets, as the damage you blog gets added to you score by some mystery formula. Or did that got changed?

Also - learn to kick.

Plus - when blocking, they are slower, thus vulnerable to footwork afaik.

Also - just imagine the guy in prolonged melee UNABLE to manual block and his shield cracking from an onslaught of axes. Few lolstabs and he is gone...

I'd say shields are more or less balanced. There are cases when they are THE guys (e.g. when flag needs to be held for those last 15 seconds and enemy is swarming) and there are cases when they do not work that well, e.g. prolonged melee Vs some axe or Vs horses.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Necrorave on March 25, 2013, 07:21:11 pm
New player.

First thing he does is claim something is OP.

He will fit right in.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 25, 2013, 07:22:42 pm
There's pro's and con's (strengths and weaknesses) for every build.

For 2h you don't have to invest in shield skill, so that's potentially another 3 strength or agility a 2h can have over a 1h/shield.

You move slower with a shield than most items in the game (minus siege equipment).

2h weapons typically do quite a bit more damage, and typically are longer weapons than 1h's.  They also have far better animations (i.e. the length added to the animations for 2h is much longer than 1h)

You generally sound pretty naive, thank you for making a rage/QQ post.

Also

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Feel free to re-use these
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Penitent on March 25, 2013, 07:34:27 pm
I play 1h/shield, but I always wanted to be a 2h hero.

You asked how to abuse 2h, so I will pass on the advice given to me:

1. Never Stop Swinging
2. Block once, then chamber everyone else
3. Good footwork
3. Hiltslash


Of course all this takes practice.  I'm still working on mastering #1.  This might seem like a mild troll post (and the guy who gave me the advice may have been half-joking)...but really.  Once I "never stopped swinging" my k/d ration improved a lot.  Of course you block sometimes when you are obviously going to get nailed...but pretty much you just keep spamming.  Then practice chambering, and good footwork.

When I play 1h/shield its easy to get into a "you-swing then I-swing" rhythm.  When I tried that with 2h, it did not translate well.  With longer weapons and footwork, you can transcend this "taking turns" mentality and begin the true art of spam.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Necrorave on March 25, 2013, 07:38:15 pm
Feel free to re-use these

Just one more.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Kafein on March 25, 2013, 07:43:33 pm
Not minusing cause obvious L2P issue. Not even an actual issue if you just started playing Warband MP, everybody had to learn.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Vodner on March 25, 2013, 08:00:08 pm
The problem with 2h is that even when I manage to block ONCE I can't keep on blocking if he keeps spamming sword unless I have really good reflexes
What is your ping?
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Matey on March 25, 2013, 08:12:59 pm
Hello, I have been playing for five minutes and I died a lot, buff peasants and nerf everything else because I am experience enough to understand balance.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on March 25, 2013, 10:07:59 pm
don't minus post only because he has obviously no clue what he is talking about.

sumusiko, for beginner 1h+shield seems to be easier because you don't need manual blocking. However if you get used to manual blocking like the most here (playing this game for years) 2h is more easy in overall and especially for killing stuff due to superior reach and damage.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 25, 2013, 10:52:48 pm
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Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Lemmy_Winks on March 25, 2013, 11:22:46 pm
Sheilder is generally an easier class to play moreso meant for beginners. Once you learn to fight (block/feign/chamber etc.) then 2h becomes a good option. Even so sheilding is still very good, makes it alot easier to fight multiple opponents and gives you more surviability.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Joseph Porta on March 25, 2013, 11:56:02 pm
Rasfrenzy got his pals to play.  :lol:
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Lactose_the_intolerant on March 26, 2013, 12:22:54 am
teach me the ways of abusing 2h

Yoda:  I cannot teach him. The boy has no patience.
Obi-Wan:  He will learn patience.
Yoda: Much anger in him... like his father.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: raccoonlord on March 26, 2013, 12:40:00 am
Started playing recently and noticed how op they are compared to who uses 2h.

Shield insta blocks any incoming attack just by right clicking once and you don't even need to guess where he is going to attack to counter it, you block it and leaves the enemy open for slashes.


When you use 2h you have to see and have amazing reflexes to be able to block his incoming attack the bad thing is that even if you do block it they just can keep on swinging without stopping and unless you have a super op attack speed 2h sword you will die a painfull death.


so on and so on.

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Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: LordLargos on March 26, 2013, 01:11:46 am
Started playing recently and noticed how op they are compared to who uses 2h.

Shield insta blocks any incoming attack just by right clicking once and you don't even need to guess where he is going to attack to counter it, you block it and leaves the enemy open for slashes.


When you use 2h you have to see and have amazing reflexes to be able to block his incoming attack the bad thing is that even if you do block it they just can keep on swinging without stopping and unless you have a super op attack speed 2h sword you will die a painfull death.


so on and so on.
We've all been trolled
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: LordLargos on March 26, 2013, 01:14:56 am
I play 1h/shield, but I always wanted to be a 2h hero.

You asked how to abuse 2h, so I will pass on the advice given to me:

1. Never Stop Swinging
2. Block once, then chamber everyone else
3. Good footwork
3. Hiltslash


Of course all this takes practice.  I'm still working on mastering #1.  This might seem like a mild troll post (and the guy who gave me the advice may have been half-joking)...but really.  Once I "never stopped swinging" my k/d ration improved a lot.  Of course you block sometimes when you are obviously going to get nailed...but pretty much you just keep spamming.  Then practice chambering, and good footwork.

When I play 1h/shield its easy to get into a "you-swing then I-swing" rhythm.  When I tried that with 2h, it did not translate well.  With longer weapons and footwork, you can transcend this "taking turns" mentality and begin the true art of spam.
You forgot lol stab.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Grumbs on March 26, 2013, 01:16:59 am
1 hand + shield teaches you to be a lazy player imo. Don't worry about how OP or UP something is though, if you have to manually block you will learn positioning, team fighting, fighting outnumbered, fighting ranged etc faster than someone who uses a shield. Whether something is OP or not is hard to call though and depends on a lot of circumstances.

Personally I feel EU1 meta has favoured shielders for a long time, but people resist against the meta because it makes the game more bland. People play M&B for the unique combat mechanics, and its like removing one of the key features to use a shield. The recent buffs were totally unneeded, but balance in cRPG has always been one the dev's weak points


Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Formless on March 26, 2013, 02:17:28 am
I play 1h/shield, but I always wanted to be a 2h hero.

You asked how to abuse 2h, so I will pass on the advice given to me:

1. Never Stop Swinging
2. Block once, then chamber everyone else
3. Good footwork
3. Hiltslash


Of course all this takes practice.  I'm still working on mastering #1.  This might seem like a mild troll post (and the guy who gave me the advice may have been half-joking)...but really.  Once I "never stopped swinging" my k/d ration improved a lot.  Of course you block sometimes when you are obviously going to get nailed...but pretty much you just keep spamming.  Then practice chambering, and good footwork.

When I play 1h/shield its easy to get into a "you-swing then I-swing" rhythm.  When I tried that with 2h, it did not translate well.  With longer weapons and footwork, you can transcend this "taking turns" mentality and begin the true art of spam.

Lol, should be a sticky

Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Gurnisson on March 26, 2013, 02:39:13 am
1. Never Stop Swinging

That's 1h tricks. dat left swing :wink:
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: sumusiko on March 26, 2013, 07:18:32 am
The problem I face the most with 2h is that if I spam swing like most people say the moment some1 blocks I'm instantly dead
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Vodner on March 26, 2013, 07:59:31 am
The problem I face the most with 2h is that if I spam swing like most people say the moment some1 blocks I'm instantly dead
You usually want to avoid getting into 1v1 combat in battle. Stick to teammates and try to overhead enemies who aren't looking at you.

If you get in a 1v1 with a good player, you are going to need to be able to block in most cases. Spend some time in duel working on your blocking ability.

Also watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9jHcZjWw9U). It's a little cheesy, but it's the only comprehensive video tutorial on Warband melee mechanics.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: sumusiko on March 26, 2013, 08:17:55 am
Im gonna respec 1h + shield 2h is shit unless you play this ever since you are  born
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Vodner on March 26, 2013, 08:21:00 am
Im gonna respec 1h + shield 2h is shit unless you play this ever since you are  born
Be aware that playing 1h as a new player has its own set of unique frustrations. Until you pick up on footwork and proper camera control, you are going to find yourself constantly glancing and getting spammed.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Kafein on March 26, 2013, 09:40:28 am
1 hand + shield teaches you to be a lazy player imo. Don't worry about how OP or UP something is though, if you have to manually block you will learn positioning, team fighting, fighting outnumbered, fighting ranged etc faster than someone who uses a shield. Whether something is OP or not is hard to call though and depends on a lot of circumstances.

Personally I feel EU1 meta has favoured shielders for a long time, but people resist against the meta because it makes the game more bland. People play M&B for the unique combat mechanics, and its like removing one of the key features to use a shield. The recent buffs were totally unneeded, but balance in cRPG has always been one the dev's weak points

Yet playing shielder makes you unable to access the most critical of lazynesses : weapon lenght and damage. Not having those can be extremely frustrating for a new (and old) player since most enemies will try to exploit it to the bone. At least with a 2h weapon you can sneak in a few very powerful hits without blocking and that might earn you a kill or two. With 1h weapons you have to be closer and very lucky to do the same, and that implies an already good build, which new players always lack.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Haboe on March 26, 2013, 10:31:17 am
For starters shielder is easier. This is imo how the skillcurve works

(battle-wise)
noobs :arrow: 1h+shield is OP vs 2h
medium players :arrow: both can be rather equal
Pro players  :arrow: 2h need a better overview of the battlefield to do as well as a pro shielder (or he will get shot/ ganked), apart from that he is an equal.
 
(duel-wise)
Noobs  :arrow: shield is OP
medium - pro players  :arrow: 2h OP
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: korppis on March 26, 2013, 10:52:53 am
I agree shielder is propably best to start with. Try to improve your footwork while with shield, manual blocking will be much easier once you learn to position yourself properly. But sooner or later it's better to practice manual blocking or you'll be stuck with shield forever. If you decide to stay with 2h, I'd recommend greatswords. Those are very good for sneaking in stabs past friends if you stay near teammates, and with the range benefit you're less likely to get spammed to death.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Molly on March 26, 2013, 11:13:21 am
From what I've read now it seems the majority here thinks that 1h is some kind of easy mode. Which has truth for the new guys but lacks the further you proceed.
I think that it's way harder to become a good shielder like Dahli than a good 2h.

Just my 2 cents...
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Ronin on March 26, 2013, 11:59:56 am
Im gonna respec 1h + shield 2h is shit unless you play this ever since you are  born
sumusiko, I can understand your frustration. I have two advices for you:
-Go for a more str based build if you're going for a shielder. Get 7 power strike minimum or you'll experience an even worse frustration. I'd say go for heavy str and try to play with low athletics, this will make you hit harder and will be a faster way of practicing the footwork. Also get 5 ironflesh minimum. That way you'll survive more and can have more time to learn.

-Go play singleplayer. Play a lot in arena training fights, with manual blocking option on. That way you'll learn how to manual block much more easier and faster.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: owens on March 26, 2013, 01:00:24 pm
Worst thread ever.


2H is strong and fast and long and high damage and has instant block unlike most shields and never gets stunned and is comes with a wide variety.

The skill required to get a few kills as 2H can be learnt by anyone in 3 hours never having played warband it is that easy. 1H still need to land hits and for a new player the pitiful damage, piddly reach and weak animation that effectively slows the weapon are often too much.

At least as 2H they can get the first swing in. Better to be a glass cannon than to never fire as so many new players do when they play sword and board.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: dreadnok on March 26, 2013, 03:59:53 pm
Lock this thread for jerkoffness
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Perverz on March 26, 2013, 04:27:01 pm
uninstall game
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Kafein on March 26, 2013, 04:38:29 pm
Honestly Warband SP is an excellent game as is. Just play that with all the hardest settings (except speed which should stay medium). Also, play on public Native MP servers to learn the MP basics.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Franke on March 26, 2013, 04:57:29 pm
From what I've read now it seems the majority here thinks that 1h is some kind of easy mode. Which has truth for the new guys but lacks the further you proceed.
I think that it's way harder to become a good shielder like Dahli than a good 2h.

Just my 2 cents...

+1 from me. The fact that you can block without caring for the direction is Imo the only advantage a shielder has and as soon as it breaks (which it will sooner or later) this advantage is gone. Your shield makes you slower (as a shielder you're usually slower than your 2h opponents) and the correct footworkj is hard to master.

Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Tibe on March 26, 2013, 06:23:34 pm
I like manual blocking more than shieldblock. Its allows for more free combatmoves. And frankly from what ive seen, people who play shielder for years get their ass kicked so hard by newbies once their precious forcefield is gone. Break those shielders shield or give em some other weapon and they will probably stab themselves in the eye with it. Years of training my ass... :D
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Taser on March 26, 2013, 07:00:59 pm
Nope, it's not.
Once you know how to block the shield is usally just in the way and the dmg is inferior than 2h/pole.

Although the crowd-control is very nice.

This. Love me some crowd control.

For starters shielder is easier. This is imo how the skillcurve works

(battle-wise)
noobs :arrow: 1h+shield is OP vs 2h
medium players :arrow: both can be rather equal
Pro players  :arrow: 2h need a better overview of the battlefield to do as well as a pro shielder (or he will get shot/ ganked), apart from that he is an equal.
 
(duel-wise)
Noobs  :arrow: shield is OP
medium - pro players  :arrow: 2h OP

And this. No need to say anything more.

/thread
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on March 26, 2013, 07:23:57 pm
+1 from me. The fact that you can block without caring for the direction is Imo the only advantage a shielder has and as soon as it breaks (which it will sooner or later) this advantage is gone. Your shield makes you slower (as a shielder you're usually slower than your 2h opponents) and the correct footworkj is hard to master.

Being able to block ranged projectiles is probably just as big of an advantage/strength to carrying a shield as well as what you said.  On top of that, being able to block multiple hits from different directions at the same time is awesome.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Macropus on March 26, 2013, 07:32:22 pm
Actually strength-oriented 1h are quite good for duelling (24-18 for example).

Overall in battle 2h and shielder are equially effective, but you need to adapt your playstyle to your class:
as a shielder you want to be in the clusterfuck fighting like 10 vs 10, and as 2h I believe you should be looking for small group fights like 3 vs 3 or duels.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: brockssn on March 26, 2013, 07:38:21 pm
Dueling is definitely my biggest challenge. I find battle to be easy mode playing on Teutonic_Brock or BadBrock. Chambering with a shield has become a must, and kicking with a shield is so risky but sometimes the only way to kill your enemy. I think any good 2h should be able to kill a shielder 1v1 though. But then again its been a long time since I haven't used a 1h with stab in a while due to the glancing bs going on which makes it pretty easy for a 2h to win.
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: Vodner on March 26, 2013, 08:20:39 pm
Quote
as a shielder you want to be in the clusterfuck fighting like 10 vs 10, and as 2h I believe you should be looking for small group fights like 3 vs 3 or duels.
While shielders are undoubtedly the king of packed group fights, a long 2h can be really effective if played like a support class in those situations. The stab gives you range on par with some of the support polearms, and the overheads do heaps of damage (and work great alongside stabby polearms).
Title: Re: 1H+Shield is op.
Post by: oprah_winfrey on March 26, 2013, 09:33:49 pm
Shield has two big benefits to it.

1) You can block while completely hammered.
2) It shops ranged.