cRPG

cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: [ptx] on February 26, 2011, 07:45:21 pm

Title: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on February 26, 2011, 07:45:21 pm
Since you can't support the admins in the admin abuse board - here is a thread for you to discuss the eligibility of these THREE game admins.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 26, 2011, 07:46:17 pm
Down with the abuse, and down with you as well!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nasturtium on February 26, 2011, 07:59:31 pm
Down with the abuse, and down with you as well!

 I think any post started by Balton Beiber on that board should be deleted on general principle. You get repeatedly kicked and banned because you are little leeching troll-ass-bitch on any server you play on.  Admins kick you because you leech, you delay and you generally do anything you can to piss everyone else off. It's narcissistic players like you that make baby jesus cry. Can I get a 'Hell yea'?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Korgoth on February 26, 2011, 08:17:17 pm
I think any post started by Balton Beiber on that board should be deleted on general principle. You get repeatedly kicked and banned because you are little leeching troll-ass-bitch on any server you play on.  Admins kick you because you leech, you delay and you generally do anything you can to piss everyone else off. It's narcissistic players like you that make baby jesus cry. Can I get a 'Hell yea'?

Mother Fucking HELL YEA!!!!

And hey!! I just noticed that I'm being "Watched" and Balton ISN'T!!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Gorath on February 26, 2011, 08:18:29 pm
I think any post started by Balton Beiber on that board should be deleted on general principle. You get repeatedly kicked and banned because you are little leeching troll-ass-bitch on any server you play on.  Admins kick you because you leech, you delay and you generally do anything you can to piss everyone else off. It's narcissistic players like you that make baby jesus cry. Can I get a 'Hell yea'?

Hell yeah

Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on February 26, 2011, 08:22:38 pm
I think any post started by Balton Beiber on that board should be deleted on general principle. You get repeatedly kicked and banned because you are little leeching troll-ass-bitch on any server you play on.  Admins kick you because you leech, you delay and you generally do anything you can to piss everyone else off. It's narcissistic players like you that make baby jesus cry. Can I get a 'Hell yea'?

Hell yesh!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 26, 2011, 08:31:25 pm
Guys, although I realize how much you love talking about me & my abs, this is not the proper time nor the place. This discussion is strictly about admins...

Oh wait, you are "hell yeahing" about me becoming an admin, right? In that case, carry on.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: SeQuel on February 26, 2011, 08:32:18 pm
I think any post started by Balton Beiber on that board should be deleted on general principle. You get repeatedly kicked and banned because you are little leeching troll-ass-bitch on any server you play on.  Admins kick you because you leech, you delay and you generally do anything you can to piss everyone else off. It's narcissistic players like you that make baby jesus cry. Can I get a 'Hell yea'?

Agreed, +1
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on February 26, 2011, 08:41:55 pm
Uhm, the idea was that you would discuss Wooki and Nuffen here, not balton. There are enough threads for that.
Anyhow, whilst were at it, what have i done to deserve this sudden influx of -'es?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 26, 2011, 08:43:53 pm
Uhm, the idea was that you would discuss Wooki and Nuffen here, not balton. There are enough threads for that.
Anyhow, whilst were at it, what have i done to deserve this sudden influx of -'es?

You didn't unban me, when it was very clear that I was banned without a legitimate reason.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on February 26, 2011, 08:45:17 pm
Shouldn't that earn me an influx of +'es? Gawd, why do i derail my own thread?

Aren't there people that are going to support Wooki and Lilith now?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Trippin on February 26, 2011, 08:48:00 pm
Agreed in regards to Balton. I have a hard time believing that the only reason why he was banned by [ptx] is because he is a spamming douchebag who thinks that he is good (which is true, by the way). His problem is indeed is his attitude. The guy is a fucking douche and probably said many things to get himself banned. Now he makes up make up 50% of the ban requests on that forum, the problem is clearly him. Someone needs to revoke his rights to post on that section of the forum.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: ManOfWar on February 26, 2011, 08:49:18 pm
Shut up about Balton people, hes an asshole, unfortunatly it is not illegal to be an asshole

to the thread, it appears lilith and wooki do not have much public support, lets just see the results of the vote
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 26, 2011, 08:50:03 pm
Shouldn't that earn me an influx of +'es? Gawd, why do i derail my own thread?

Aren't there people that are going to support Wooki and Lilith now?

Although there might be many people that hate me, I have many supporters waiting to strike at every chance they get as well.

Agreed in regards to Balton. I have a hard time believing that the only reason why he was banned by [ptx] is because he is a spamming douchebag who thinks that he is good (which is true, by the way). His problem is indeed is his attitude. The guy is a fucking douche and probably said many things to get himself banned. Now he makes up make up 50% of the ban requests on that forum, the problem is clearly him. Someone needs to revoke his rights to post on that section of the forum.

Oh God, the irony. Also, umad bro?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ganon on February 26, 2011, 08:51:38 pm
I still don't get if these polls are serious. While wooki's nomination seemed somewhat credible, Lilith's nomination thread looks like pure trolling. We shall know soon i guess.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Trippin on February 26, 2011, 08:52:06 pm
Oh God, the irony. Also, umad bro?

I fail to see any irony in that post, please elaborate. I troll the spam section of this forum, I don't make retarded posts begging to ban admins because I am a retard.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 26, 2011, 08:53:50 pm
...I am a retard.

Well, at least you got past the denial stage.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Trippin on February 26, 2011, 08:55:51 pm
Well, at least you got past the denial stage.

I see what you did there bro. How original.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 26, 2011, 08:56:29 pm
I see what you did there bro. How original.

You got beat at your own game. umad?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 26, 2011, 08:58:45 pm
I (and the rest of the I.S.P.C.A.) are outraged at this clear case of cruelty to admins. This kind of abuse of those who only attempt to create a stable environment for others to play in is not acceptable.

All admins could at any moment be the victims of such wanton cruelty, and I say it must end here.

###EDIT###

It may also be wise for those who start these nomination threads to remember that they are not anonymous, the I.S.P.C.A. does not forget.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nasturtium on February 26, 2011, 09:07:47 pm
Uhm, the idea was that you would discuss Wooki and Nuffen here, not balton. There are enough threads for that.
Anyhow, whilst were at it, what have i done to deserve this sudden influx of -'es?

 YOur right sorry, my point is that balton will post in that thread just to drum up controversy and should be muted in that forum, since he is eventually going to hate every admin in crpg for banning his sorry ass.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: ManOfWar on February 26, 2011, 09:10:24 pm
the braedon admin abuse thread does not seem to be getting a lot of forward movement, not all of them will work
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Gorath on February 26, 2011, 09:12:23 pm
Ok ptx, to stay on topic:
I already voted no for both of them losing their admin powers.  Firstly because the ban threads are started by Baltard, who's a moronic douche with severe narcissism, therefore any post he makes in regards to actions being taken against anyone can automatically be dismissed as bullshit.

Secondly because I believe that other than the statement about taking action on players based off of things outside the game, nothing was posted that showed poor judgement in admin powers and their use, and the other merely deserves a warning at most about refraining from taking personal vendettas from outside the game into the game as administrative action.  The majority of the posts wanting to ban them were either from clanmates of someone bawwwwing at the fact they had their wrist slapped for doing something stupid, or trolls +1'ing because that's what they do.

Off topic:
The guy is a fucking douche .... the problem is clearly him....  Someone needs to revoke his rights to post on that section of the forum.

Hard to believe I'm going to agree with Tripp, but I do.  Also Tripp, it's not true that he is good.  He is terrible, capable only of hiding till the rounds end (or else dying within the first few seconds of combat at the beginning of the round) and then s-keying like it's going out of style while spamming left and right with a long hafted blade.  No dueling skill, no footwork skill, no skill period.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Kophka on February 26, 2011, 09:16:28 pm
Alright, I don't see threads about admins like Everkistus and Mylet here. The only people nominated are admins, who in their own words, base their ban decisions on how they see someone, not for breaking the rules or not. A very understandable, human, failing, but it's still a failing. If they don't feel they can be objective about kicking/ banning people for rule breaking, and not "You're not a good person, I don't like you, you are annoying" feelings, they shouldn't be admins.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:18:47 pm
Well, Lilith is by far the worst admin out there. He has no common sense whatsoever and if you dare question his judgement you get muted, kicked or banned. Example: Killing someone at the last round of the map, 1 enemy left, 20 teammates vs him. The guy you TK doesn't whine. Lilith kicks and then mutes when asking what the problem was. Retarded admining at its best.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on February 26, 2011, 09:24:26 pm
I voted no fo Lilith, as I never saw him kicking/banning anyone without a reason. I always thought of him as a cool guy, he chats casually in game chat and stuff, never seen him brag about his powers. Wooki on the other hand... I've been present on server where Wooki just came in, asked if we want to change the map, majority (like literally majority, there was maybe 3 yeses in the whole spam of noes) said NO and he changed the map immidietally in the middle of the round. When we asked why did he change, his answer was "Cause I really hate this map".
Might be not good enough reason for removing admin powers, but from the people posting there it's not unusual for him and i just don't think that's how admining is supposed to be done.

As for ptx, you are sometimes so full of yourself, it's not even nice. Never seen you do wrong though, even though I think you should sometimes remind yourself the first rule (COMMON SENSE).
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 26, 2011, 09:24:44 pm
Xant, this is not the place to whine. But you really show how a lot of those who wanna remove my admin rights are failing.
First, you intentionally tked, you even admitted it. For this you were not banned, as I should have, but only got a kick. I did an error here, as I was afraid of people thinking I was doing it because you voted to remove you. Such things shouldnt afflict admins actions (even if this was the opposite of what kophka accuses me of). I shouldve banned you, and you know it.
You also know you broke the rules, still, instead of accepting the kick, or even trying to justify your actions, you start spamming about me abusing. So again, I shouldve banned you, but I muted you.
Then, you go here to whine about it, only to show how unserious some of you guys are.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on February 26, 2011, 09:27:38 pm
Well, Lilith is by far the worst admin out there. He has no common sense whatsoever and if you dare question his judgement you get muted, kicked or banned. Example: Killing someone at the last round of the map, 1 enemy left, 20 teammates vs him. The guy you TK doesn't whine. Lilith kicks and then mutes when asking what the problem was. Retarded admining at its best.

So, you broke a rule, you got kicked. What am I missing here?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:28:24 pm
Xant, this is not the place to whine. But you really show how a lot of those who wanna remove my admin rights are failing.
First, you intentionally tked, you even admitted it. For this you were not banned, as I should have, but only got a kick. I did an error here, as I was afraid of people thinking I was doing it because you voted to remove you. Such things shouldnt afflict admins actions (even if this was the opposite of what kophka accuses me of). I shouldve banned you, and you know it.
You also know you broke the rules, still, instead of accepting the kick, or even trying to justify your actions, you start spamming about me abusing. So again, I shouldve banned you, but I muted you.
Then, you go here to whine about it, only to show how unserious some of you guys are.

Thank you.

Sure it is - it even says discussion. I'm simply encouraging people to vote "yes." Only thing failing here is your brain, unfortunately. Yes, I intentionally teamkilled by thrusting someone's feet. As I said, what harm did I do? No harm. There was absolutely no harm done. Your common sense fails hard.

I "spammed" about you abusing? Hahahalolno. Show the logs about me spamming.  :)

So, you broke a rule, you got kicked. What am I missing here?

The lack of common sense.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on February 26, 2011, 09:29:38 pm
The lack of common sense.

That can be applied both ways.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:29:54 pm
That can be applied both ways.

Howso? How did I do anything wrong?  :lol:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on February 26, 2011, 09:31:21 pm
Well, if you don't see how teamkilling is wrong, then you deserved to be banned  :lol:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:32:25 pm
Well, if you don't see how teamkilling is wrong, then you deserved to be banned  :lol:

Explain to me how it's wrong to teamkill someone at the end of the map when your team has an assured victory?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 26, 2011, 09:33:08 pm
Nemeth, the admins' best deep-throater.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 26, 2011, 09:34:06 pm
Explain to me how it's wrong to teamkill someone at the end of the map when your team has an assured victory?

Morality is irrelevant. By playing on the server, you're accepting the rules of said server. One of these rules is not to team-attack/kill intentionally.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on February 26, 2011, 09:34:34 pm
I guess that's the lack of common sense. Why would you kill him in the first place? For fun? I mean what he hell? I mean, I enjoy general goofing around too, but just cut this shit out when admin's on ^^
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:35:04 pm
Morality is irrelevant. By playing on the server, you're accepting the rules of said server. One of these rules is not to team-attack/kill intentionally.

Why is the rule there? Surely not to prevent what I did? I'll help you out - it's not there for that. It's there to prevent harmful teamkilling. That's where common sense and admin discretion steps in.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 26, 2011, 09:39:26 pm
Why is the rule there? Surely not to prevent what I did? I'll help you out - it's not there for that. It's there to prevent harmful teamkilling. That's where common sense and admin discretion steps in.

Rule utiltarianism, look it up.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:40:41 pm
Rule utiltarianism, look it up.

Irrelevant.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on February 26, 2011, 09:43:13 pm
You can't just bend the rules to your liking. The rule is clear: no intentional teamkilling. Follow the rules and you'll be fine. You're playing with the fire here, so you can't be surprised you get yourself burnt.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:44:26 pm
You can't just bend the rules to your liking. The rule is clear: no intentional teamkilling. Follow the rules and you'll be fine. You're playing with the fire here, so you can't be surprised you get yourself burnt.

Quote
Why is the rule there? Surely not to prevent what I did? I'll help you out - it's not there for that. It's there to prevent harmful teamkilling. That's where common sense and admin discretion steps in.

With good admins (most of them are) there's no need to be slaves to the rules.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: IG_Saint on February 26, 2011, 09:45:59 pm
Xant, this is not the place to whine. But you really show how a lot of those who wanna remove my admin rights are failing.
First, you intentionally tked, you even admitted it. For this you were not banned, as I should have, but only got a kick. I did an error here, as I was afraid of people thinking I was doing it because you voted to remove you. Such things shouldnt afflict admins actions (even if this was the opposite of what kophka accuses me of). I shouldve banned you, and you know it.
You also know you broke the rules, still, instead of accepting the kick, or even trying to justify your actions, you start spamming about me abusing. So again, I shouldve banned you, but I muted you.
Then, you go here to whine about it, only to show how unserious some of you guys are.

Thank you.

The bolded part might be why so many people +1'd you. First offences should never be a ban, always a kick and/or warning. With the exception of extreme cases, team killing sprees, extreme racism and so on.

I voted yes for wooki, because of the whole ts/DoW2 thing which is just ridiculous. And no for lilith, since he does genuinely try to be a good admin, just screws up now and then.

Edit:
You can't just bend the rules to your liking. The rule is clear: no intentional teamkilling. Follow the rules and you'll be fine. You're playing with the fire here, so you can't be surprised you get yourself burnt.

That's easy to say, but when you're on a server late at night with no admin on, it's alot easier to just hit the intentional teamattacker back, rather than make a whole thread with screens to get him banned. Which brings me back to my point that first offences should never be a ban and always a kick/warning: because mitigating circumstances do exist (not enough to justify intentional TKing, but enough to justify not getting an instant ban for it).
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Trippin on February 26, 2011, 09:46:14 pm
Also Tripp, it's not true that he is good.  He is terrible, capable only of hiding till the rounds end (or else dying within the first few seconds of combat at the beginning of the round) and then s-keying like it's going out of style while spamming left and right with a long hafted blade.  No dueling skill, no footwork skill, no skill period.

I know he is bad. I have seen him fight, all he does is spam. The worst part of it is that he thinks he is the shit.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: SeQuel on February 26, 2011, 09:46:28 pm
BACK TO THE TOPIC - Ban Balton, end of CRPG problems.

oh wait, thats off topic. ON TOPIC - I voted no for both.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Kophka on February 26, 2011, 09:47:04 pm
The admins job is to enforce the rules. The rules are the things that keep the majority of  the players happy and in a playable enviroment, that is NOT an admins job. They are there to enforce the rules. Don't like the rules, find another server to play in, or get the rules changed. Don't dog an admin for enforcing clearly stated rules. Fire an admin when they take it beyond rules, and mute/kick/ban for personal reasons, or "sillyness". If there is no rule about it, then the admins can get it changed just like a normal player.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Marblecake on February 26, 2011, 09:48:52 pm
Xant, did the guy say: "Go ahead and TK me?"

I guess he didn't. But even if he did, teamkilling is against the rules. And since admins are there to enforce the rules, the kick was justified.
TK'ing isn't only forbidden when it's harmful to the team but always. And: people get annoyed when they get TK'd. Swift justice avoids flamefests. Mostly...

I actually quite like Lilith's admin style. Strictness goes with the job, and I like the way he (really? not a she?) goes about it. The only decision I saw that I found myself incapable of agreeing with is when Lilith kicked someone for kicking another player out of the way while being chased by enemies. The guy was TK'ed before by the same team mate who he kicked, but the TK'er got to stay. Highly questionable. But all in all, I didn't see anything I found disagreeable. Hence voted no.


Wookie, however, is another matter. As stated above, admins are there to enforce the rules, nothing more. Using your powers to switch maps because you do not like the current one is power abuse. Hence, voted yes.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vexus on February 26, 2011, 09:49:18 pm
Some admins forget to give warnings before banning so I understand some of the +1s in the threads.

I behave peacefully and never got warned or kicked/banned but if I did something I would like to be warned first not instantly banned without a reason then you have to wait for them to reply on forum to know why.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:53:17 pm
But even if he did, teamkilling is against the rules. And since admins are there to enforce the rules, the kick was justified.
TK'ing isn't only forbidden when it's harmful to the team but always. And: people get annoyed when they get TK'd. Swift justice avoids flamefests. Mostly...

I love the circular logic. Teamkilling is forbidden because it's harmful oh wait if it's not harmful it's still forbidden. It's a server rule yes, so what? The #1 rule is Use Common Sense. No harm was done, bing. I've never had problems with any other admins, guess they must not be enforcing server rules.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 26, 2011, 09:55:34 pm
Xant, please. If you wanna remove all the rules on the servers, go make your own thread about it. This thread is not about you disagreeing with the rules. Its not about you disagreeing about admins enforcing the rules. Its about if wooki and Lilith/nuffen (me) is enforcing em right or not.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 09:56:10 pm
Indeed, and you're not enforcing them right.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Marblecake on February 26, 2011, 09:59:21 pm
Quote from: Xant
I love the circular logic. Teamkilling is forbidden because it's harmful oh wait if it's not harmful it's still forbidden. It's a server rule yes, so what? The #1 rule is Use Common Sense. No harm was done, bing. I've never had problems with any other admins, guess they must not be enforcing server rules.

I actually said that it's not forbidden only when it's harmful, but always. Plus, I forgot to add that it is intentional TK that is forbidden.  :wink:

I just can't see what you're upset about. You intentionally TK'ed, you got kicked, end of story. No admin abuse there, at all.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 26, 2011, 10:00:42 pm
Xant, I suggest you stop arguing with admins for enforcing a rule stopping you from intentionally team-killing. You're only digging your already rather deep hole even deeper.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 10:01:34 pm
I actually said that it's not forbidden only when it's harmful, but always. Plus, I forgot to add that it is intentional TK that is forbidden.  :wink:

I just can't see what you're upset about. You intentionally TK'ed, you got kicked, end of story. No admin abuse there, at all.

Why is it forbidden? Search your soul for the answer and you'll find that it's not to prevent what I did. Good admins know that.

I'm not claiming admin abuse, I'm saying Lilith uses no common sense when enforcing the rules.

Xant, I suggest you stop arguing with admins for enforcing a rule stopping you from intentionally team-killing. You're only digging your already rather deep hole even deeper.

The hole of logic is deep indeed. I suggest you come take a look!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 26, 2011, 10:04:25 pm
The hole of logic is deep indeed. I suggest you come take a look!

That's right, keep digging. =)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Karmazyn on February 26, 2011, 10:04:34 pm
... Its about if wooki and Lilith/nuffen (me) is enforcing em right or not.

I think people want from you that you chill more, management by perception...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Marblecake on February 26, 2011, 10:17:46 pm
Quote from: Xant

I'm not claiming admin abuse, I'm saying Lilith uses no common sense when enforcing the rules.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the polls about admins abusing their power?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 26, 2011, 10:19:53 pm
I think people want from you that you chill more, management by perception...

Im confused. Several people who have nominated me for the poll have complained, especially ingame, exactly because I only do management by perception and dont take em on their word..
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 10:23:07 pm
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the polls about admins abusing their power?

No, they're about admins abusing your MOTHER.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: chadz on February 26, 2011, 10:26:46 pm
Voted no on both cases. While there might have been some misjudgements (I can't tell, I don't have that much insight), the community did all in all show what they consider good admining, so I think it would turn out good with both.

Also, intentional TKs will definately get you trouble in the game, might be fun for you, but I'd rageban your sorry ass if I see that - or if you do it to me.

(never said I was a good admin, that's why I usually log in without admin rights)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 10:30:20 pm
Also, intentional TKs will definately get you trouble in the game, might be fun for you, but I'd rageban your sorry ass if I see that - or if you do it to me.

(never said I was a good admin, that's why I usually log in without admin rights)
If I did it to you and you'd rageban me for it, then you wouldn't be OK with it would you? That's the point - if the one getting TKd is okay with it, why is there a problem? It's a completely different case if the teamkilled guy demands a punishment.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Marblecake on February 26, 2011, 10:32:05 pm
Quote from: Xant
No, they're about admins abusing your MOTHER.

Wow Xant. Just...wow.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on February 26, 2011, 10:37:19 pm
Wow Xant. Just...wow.

Stupid questions get stupid answers.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ganon on February 26, 2011, 10:47:33 pm
I support Lilith because his decisions were always right when i was in game and his nomination thread is trash. Voted to keep his admin status as well.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vicious666 on February 26, 2011, 11:14:55 pm
doh wooki


what a surprise.








mmm nope
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: UrLukur on February 26, 2011, 11:20:45 pm
I never had problems with Lilith.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 26, 2011, 11:58:56 pm
I voted to keep Lilith. I think it (You guys are conflicting on his/her gender, I shall call Lilith an It from now on) is a good moderator from what I can see. I have noticed a mistake, but honestly every moderator seems to make mistakes as it is human. The majority of Lilith Bans I found myself agreeing with.

Yeah... (Braces for the multitude of -1 awesome bar points).
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Poetrydog on February 27, 2011, 12:11:46 am
I also voted to keep Lillith. From what I've seen of her (gonna call him/her a her) "in action" I think she did it good enough to keep her admin status
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Toffi on February 27, 2011, 12:45:49 am
Okay I'm gonna post in here cause my old support thread got deleted and I'm watched since then.

I have nothing against Lilith / Nuffin, we've had a nice talk on some servers several times, I've never seen him abusing, kicking people without stating the reason or doing some other stuff admins shouldn't do. He is always helpfull, if players have some questions regarding the game, rules or equipment and I would even go so far to say Lilith is the best admin in cRPG.

I have seen what you guys said about him on the "admin abooze" thread, I can't denie that cause I haven't been there, but at least some of the people who posted in there, and the guy who started the topic, are trolls and I do not believe them cause I have never had any bad experiences with that admin so that's my opinion, I hope you judge right.

Toffi
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Polobow on February 27, 2011, 12:47:08 am
Stupid questions get stupid answers.

There are no stupid questions. Only stupid answers.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Babelfish on February 27, 2011, 12:48:49 am
Lilith, is a decent admin. If any of you have ever been on IRC, you might notice nuffen asking other admins whats allowed or not _before_ banning someone. How many others are getting second opinions before taking actions? No-one that i have heard about.

He is also one of the few individuals that actually does go to spectator-mode and watch the offender before taking actions. Other admins might ban on second-hand-information and/or reputation.
And just to prove how unbiased this stand-out admin is; i requested a ban on some des_norden dude that banned me from eu3 (reasons unknown) . ( im friendly with nuffen/lilith, so i asked him to look at my ban-request thread.) Although i had a screen-shot and the accused refused to answer, nuffen could not ban him, because of lack of proof. Sucks, but i respect him more for it.

So in a nut-shell, nuffen/lilith values rules & fairness above irc/ingame-friendships (aka he wont be breaking rules for you).

It would be a huge mistake to take away his admin rights.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Toffi on February 27, 2011, 12:50:58 am
Down with the abuse, and down with you as well!
You're going down Lily, down in flames.
He started 2 admin abooze threads, he is always trolling around, complaining about something (he was the only one complaining about my jousting tournament), he is just annoying and kiddy as hell, I would poll on you if I could. It would be like 70- 80 % against you.

Edit: you should be banned and muted, and what I was reading about you ingame deleted from the database, have a good day sir.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: polkafranzi on February 27, 2011, 01:06:48 am
lilith is one of the fairest admins i saw

i voted KEEP LILITH AN ADMIN - always fair in my eyes
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Christo on February 27, 2011, 01:10:36 am
I don't really know Lilith. About Wooki I heard that he's got a bad reputation for himself from the players. Bad, too bad.. Personally I have no problem with him, but many people says otherwise. Then there's got to be some truth in it.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Quirian on February 27, 2011, 01:25:20 am
I love wookie, because of his humour, and he's german and so on.

And I love Lilith because of the cute kitten..... really its so cute, and she is really a good admin as far as I saw that.
 :)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Everkistus on February 27, 2011, 01:31:12 am
Lilith is one of the good admins. Voted absolute no.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: bruce on February 27, 2011, 02:19:48 am
Lilith's nomination thread looks like pure trolling.

Wookie, while he might be prone to switching maps to cav ones and kicking sprees, is a good guy. Most of the time he's a sane admin, he just likes to troll a bit much.

Lilith, on the other hand... well, I really don't like his admining at all, nor his attitude about being an admin. An admin is there to make the playing experience more enjoyable and should have some common sense.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Korgoth on February 27, 2011, 02:31:21 am
I've never really had a problem with Liliths admining.

But Wooki's I can't stand (Sorry Wooki). I hate it when he changes the map because HE doesn't like it. He doesn't ask people if they want a map change like other admins. He just does it.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Gurnisson on February 27, 2011, 02:31:50 am
Don't mind Lilith as a person, nor as an admin. Voted no for removal of admin rights.

Don't mind Wookie as a person, but I don't agree with his administrating. Voted yes for removal of admin rights.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: LordBerenger on February 27, 2011, 02:32:25 am
ARRGH if Lillith is still admin after vote i will rush right through a wall..or something dammit.


I can recall one time when Lillith under a alt char banned a guy named SS_Slakt with the reason being ''It reminds EVERYONE of the chocolate chip cookies at World War 2'' and Slakt meaning ''Massacre, butchery'' in Swedish.

No screenshot proof but just that.....that wasn't maybe the guys intention even though that's what you come to think of.

Oh well. All we can hope for now is that justice will be served. For once..
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 27, 2011, 02:35:03 am
CountBerenger: I hope you didnt vote yes because of that, because I asked cmpxchg8b first, and he agreed. :)
But hey, you know that already, as I told you when I banned him.

I didnt say it reminds EVERYONE of the chocolate chip cookie organisation SS of world war 2. I did not use the word everyone.
Also, the guy could just change his name to something less offending. He choose to not to.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: LordBerenger on February 27, 2011, 02:48:54 am
No Lillith :P I didn't vote for that only but oh well.

If you won't get stripped of your admin powers the realm of chadz will forever be stuck inside the dark abyss =(

You are a even bigger threat than Wooki  :shock:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 27, 2011, 03:24:49 am
CountBerenger, the I.S.P.C.A. has been made aware of your actions. That is all.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Zaelious on February 27, 2011, 03:31:48 am
So many of you are voting no and simply saying they have their faults or tolerate it.. But that's the thing, we don't have to tolerate this anymore, people have been complaining for ages about Lilith and Wooki, it's just we had to deal with all the bullshit until finally chadz did something great, so now, finally, we won't have troll admins and the bad form of insensible admins, the ones with no common sense.. HOPEFULLY.

There are a lot less trolls in that thread than some of you may think though, Lilith uses the ban button like its a verbal warning, so obviously many many people will be displeased with her admining and want someone new, Wooki on the other hand is just a bad admin overall, trolls, bans for stuff outside the game, kicks and bans players who haven't broken any rules generally. I just hope you guys actually understand the difference between a good admin and a bad one, there are always other candidates out there who can do a good job, and don't give some bs about "your time, or our time," most players who enjoy this game can actually do a decent job and won't mind doing it at all, we just gotta' find the good ones and learn that getting admin should be hard, but losing it should be extremely easier.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Casimir on February 27, 2011, 03:34:30 am
Keep wooki.

Fuck nuffen.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: LordBerenger on February 27, 2011, 08:43:01 am
The I.S.P.C.A. can kiss my ass :!:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Punisher on February 27, 2011, 10:58:12 am
I never had any problems with Lilith, and I actually like his ruthless administration style, I never saw him ban anyone without a reason, so as far as I'm concerned he's just following the rules, not abusing his admin powers so a NO from me.

As for Wooki, never had any problems with him either and I rarely saw him in-game (I mostly play battle mode) and he's a cool guy on irc but his decision to ban Captain_Georges for griefing him in another game, combined with his refusal to admit his mistake and remove the ban looks like serious abuse to me, so he got a YES.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Magikarp on February 27, 2011, 11:40:57 am
Wookie? Yes. Why? Because I don't think we want admins serving their own interests and trolling all the time.

Lilith? No. Why? I actually like the admin he is, one that enforces the rules. While sometimes maybe a bit overreacting. He can still learn from his mistakes, Wookie clearly can't.

The fish has spoken!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Bear on February 27, 2011, 11:44:51 am
Wookie? Yes. Why? Because I don't think we want admins serving their own interests and trolling all the time.

Lilith? No. Why? I actually like the admin he is, one that enforces the rules. While sometimes maybe a bit overreacting. He can still learn from his mistakes, Wookie clearly can't.

The fish has spoken!

+1

The bear has spoken!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 11:57:39 am
Hello everyone. You might know me online as Juliet, or Shogunate_Chizuna.

I have friendly relations with Lilith/Nuffen, however that does not stop me from viewing the matter in a logical aspect.

I have no current relations with Wooki.


-

Many kicks have been made ingame by Lilith, which is a given. In -most- of the cases it were legit. People have harassed and trolled Lilith ingame for this. "Hunter_The_Honorable" for one.
I think it is despicable that people behave like the Admin's are tools, meant to please them. They are people with emotions and they try their best to do their job. There is no point in harassing them.
Human's make mistakes. Lilith, have made mistakes. I have made mistakes, and you make mistakes.
Thing is. To me it looks like Lilith actually cares to listen to complaints and explain what is going on, in most cases.
If I were an admin, I would not like to be harassed, unreasonably. There is no reason for such a hetz.
Lilith should not be stripped of admin powers, due to the fact that he is a fair, logical person, who doesn't abuse his powers, in any way.

-

I don't know much of Wooki, as I havn't seen him act much. I have heard of the ban from C-RPG of my clanmember, Georgia, but I have not seen it myself, as such I cannot vote either on him.

-

Lilith should stay. Admin's can improve if given the chance. Give Lilith the chance. He cares. Do you?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Korgoth on February 27, 2011, 12:08:35 pm
The I.S.P.C.A. can kiss my ass :!:

If you look anything like your picture. I would kiss your ass for them
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: LordBerenger on February 27, 2011, 12:32:46 pm
For the love of gawd i'm 100 percent sure now that Lillith will stay and Wooki will go. Lol.

This sucks tbh... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 12:35:32 pm
For the love of gawd i'm 100 percent sure now that Lillith will stay and Wooki will go. Lol.

This sucks tbh... :rolleyes:

Perhaps you should help Lilith then. Help her become better. Be reasonable in voicing your opinions. Make C-Rpg pleasant and a better place for all the players. That is what a playerbase should do, if unsatisfied with it's admins.. Atleast I believe so.
I believe we can make it a better place if we try, and if people start caring enough..!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 27, 2011, 12:44:49 pm
Lilith is currently on a muting spree on EU1... Definitely not a good admin.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 27, 2011, 12:48:51 pm
Lilith is currently on a muting spree on EU1... Definitely not a good admin.

The 7-8 people who responded to the muting dont agree with you. :)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lamix on February 27, 2011, 12:51:06 pm
Unfortunantly i agree that both should be removed from admin postitions there decisions are based too much on personal reasons and not what the rules actually are, these two are not the only ones that do it either, most admins on this game have too many loyalties they have there clans and friends and will allow these people to go directly against the server rules while instantly banning others they dislike for slighty bending the rules.

With all that said this is NOT the way for admins to be regulated, all this does is cause conflict between the two and will only cause more harm then good, you should have senior admins that watch the other admins actions and tell that what they are doing right or wrong, as it stands right now there is no leadership and thats what you need, not a vote system to allow over inflated egos to try and remove admins.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 27, 2011, 12:51:46 pm
The 7-8 people who responded to the muting dont agree with you. :)

Of course, the ones who voice their opinions against it get muted as well. Happened on NA yesterday. I was muted by Gash, then someone asked "Does that make you feel powerful Gash?" And they got muted as well, easy as that.

Also, I wasn't the only one muted.

And now you banned someone, and others even cried "abuse".
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on February 27, 2011, 12:57:49 pm
Unfortunantly i agree that both should be removed from admin postitions there decisions are based too much on personal reasons and not what the rules actually are, these two are not the only ones that do it either, most admins on this game have too many loyalties they have there clans and friends and will allow these people to go directly against the server rules while instantly banning others they dislike for slighty bending the rules.

With all that said this is NOT the way for admins to be regulated, all this does is cause conflict between the two and will only cause more harm then good, you should have senior admins that watch the other admins actions and tell that what they are doing right or wrong, as it stands right now there is no leadership and thats what you need, not a vote system to allow over inflated egos to try and remove admins.

Seriously, people with this attitude should not be allowed to vote. Did you see any of them abuse their powers? Just because some people on the forum say they are abusing doesn't mean they are telling the whole story. If you don't have personal experience with them abusing their power, there is no reason to vote against them.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Korgoth on February 27, 2011, 12:58:50 pm
and others even cried "abuse".

Yes the Sarcastic screams of the people who loved the fact that you got muted.

You forgot to mention all the "GOOD ONE LILITH!!" s that came after
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 27, 2011, 01:01:44 pm
Yes the Sarcastic screams of the people who loved the fact that you got muted.

You forgot to mention all the "GOOD ONE LILITH!!" s that came after

Talking about the ban, not my muting. And of course, scrubs sucking the dick of those in a position of power above them, it's something that has been happening for thousands of years.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Korgoth on February 27, 2011, 01:02:52 pm
You got banned? Ha
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lamix on February 27, 2011, 01:05:57 pm
Seriously, people with this attitude should not be allowed to vote. Did you see any of them abuse their powers? Just because some people on the forum say they are abusing doesn't mean they are telling the whole story. If you don't have personal experience with them abusing their power, there is no reason to vote against them.
Yes i have seen both abuse their admin powers on multiple occasions, and i still voted NO on both because this is not the way to remove admin, i believe they should have there admin rights taken away but not this way, so you should maybe rethink you're statment and shitty attitude towards a player only expressing there opinion. Especially since you're being a hypocrit and basing what you think of me and my motivations on nothing while saying i should not be allowed to vote.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 27, 2011, 01:07:29 pm
You got banned? Ha

Not me... Damn your English comprehension skills are so sub-par.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Toffi on February 27, 2011, 02:01:42 pm
CountBerenger: I hope you didnt vote yes because of that, because I asked cmpxchg8b first, and he agreed. :)
But hey, you know that already, as I told you when I banned him.

I didnt say it reminds EVERYONE of the chocolate chip cookie organisation SS of world war 2. I did not use the word everyone.
Also, the guy could just change his name to something less offending. He choose to not to.

i would have banned this guy too, you can't call yourself SS, it's not okay.

Edit: Omg Balton is trolling in here again, gtf away.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jarlek on February 27, 2011, 02:26:34 pm
i would have banned this guy too, you can't call yourself SS, it's not okay.

Edit: Omg Balton is trolling in here again, gtf away.
Whats wrong whit calling yourself SteamShip? Cause SS has more than one meaning you know...

Also while Balton gives good BJs I still wont agree with him :D
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 02:34:27 pm
Whats wrong whit calling yourself SteamShip? Cause SS has more than one meaning you know...


While could indeed mean Steamship, there is a huge possibility that it meant Schutzstaffel.
It was einstein's personal guard, you could say. Much like.. Storm Troops.

Any jewish person.. No. Any person who like humanity a tiny bit would frown upon that.

It is -not- okay. Just like racism is not okay.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Zisa on February 27, 2011, 04:05:30 pm
Of course, the ones who voice their opinions against it get muted as well. Happened on NA yesterday. I was muted by Gash, then someone asked "Does that make you feel powerful Gash?" And they got muted as well, easy as that.

Also, I wasn't the only one muted.

And now you banned someone, and others even cried "abuse".
reet, it was not gash who originally muted YOU, it was Gash who muted the troll after you, nor was gash the subject of the 'powerful' comment. But since what other people type is far less important to you then what you type, I understand how you could have missed that.

Why the fuck do you think anyone cares about your ban on NA when the thread is supposed to be about some eu admins?

Perhaps you should clutter less threads with your presence; some of us find you to be one of the less idiotic trolls but there is the whole familiarity breeds contempt thing.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Leiknir on February 27, 2011, 04:06:06 pm
Whats wrong whit calling yourself SteamShip? Cause SS has more than one meaning you know...
Servers are located in Germany, German law is pretty butthurt concerning the past. And in the case of "SS_slakt" (=butchery,killing off, slaughter) I think he didn't mean a SteamShip. Would be a pretty ugly name for a nice Steamship.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 04:11:02 pm
Servers are located in Germany, German law is pretty butthurt concerning the past. And in the case of "SS_slakt" (=butchery,killing off, slaughter) I think he didn't mean a SteamShip. Would be a pretty ugly name for a nice Steamship.

The EU servers, obviously. And Leiknir is correct. It is not seemly.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 27, 2011, 04:20:24 pm
Lilith is currently on a muting spree on EU1... Definitely not a good admin.

I am sorry but if there is a troll spree then there will be a muting spree.
Your behavior is rather lackluster, as you seem to be against every single Admin decision I have ever seen on this board for c-RPG.

It does not seem like you are anti-abuse so much as anti-admin.

Also, as Zisa said, would it kill you to stop self-glorifying yourself in eveyr thread when the thread is not about you? (You have enough fans to do that for you, surely you do not need to start talking about yourself everywhere, yes?)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Toffi on February 27, 2011, 06:39:20 pm
Servers are located in Germany, German law is pretty butthurt concerning the past. And in the case of "SS_slakt" (=butchery,killing off, slaughter) I think he didn't mean a SteamShip. Would be a pretty ugly name for a nice Steamship.

Yeah.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 06:57:21 pm
Hello everyone. You might know me online as Juliet, or Shogunate_Chizuna.

I have friendly relations with Lilith/Nuffen, however that does not stop me from viewing the matter in a logical aspect.

I have no current relations with Wooki.


-

Many kicks have been made ingame by Lilith, which is a given. In -most- of the cases it were legit. People have harassed and trolled Lilith ingame for this. "Hunter_The_Honorable" for one.
I think it is despicable that people behave like the Admin's are tools, meant to please them. They are people with emotions and they try their best to do their job. There is no point in harassing them.
Human's make mistakes. Lilith, have made mistakes. I have made mistakes, and you make mistakes.
Thing is. To me it looks like Lilith actually cares to listen to complaints and explain what is going on, in most cases.
If I were an admin, I would not like to be harassed, unreasonably. There is no reason for such a hetz.
Lilith should not be stripped of admin powers, due to the fact that he is a fair, logical person, who doesn't abuse his powers, in any way.

-

I don't know much of Wooki, as I havn't seen him act much. I have heard of the ban from C-RPG of my clanmember, Georgia, but I have not seen it myself, as such I cannot vote either on him.

-

Lilith should stay. Admin's can improve if given the chance. Give Lilith the chance. He cares. Do you?

An admin that can't tell the difference between an intentional TK, an unintentional TK, or doesn't know when to give the benefit of doubt when it is due shouldn't be an admin.

An admin, that doesn't understand the concepts of burden of proof, standard of proof, and rule of law (yes, admins SHOULD have fucking evidence on every ban they dish out: power demands responsibility and "too much work" is a bullshit stock excuse for autocratic behaviour) should not be an admin.

An admin that can't rationalise a situation and kicks and bans on impulse, gut feeling and other irrational grounds without justification that is clearly reasoned and supported with EVIDENCE should not be an admin.

An admin that can't differentiate between blind application of the word of rules between decent application of the spirit of rules should not be an admin.

An admin that makes assumptions, and defends their own decisions by bringing themselves above rationality (I paraphrase "Admins don't need evidence"), placing value judgements over fact should not be an admin.

An admin, whose decisions are so wild, so irrational and so broad that it's clear he makes rules up on the fly should not be an admin.

And finally, an admin that laughs on IRC on the triviality of the whole process of votes against him, who shows an utter disregard for OTHERS feelings and who lacks the maturity to stop acting like a clown in a position of power and actually take his job seriously, should not be an admin.

You start your post by talking about logic and your entire post is an appeal to human emotion. How bloody ironic.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: IG_Saint on February 27, 2011, 07:01:05 pm
An admin that can't tell the difference between an intentional TK, an unintentional TK, or doesn't know when to give the benefit of doubt when it is due shouldn't be an admin.

An admin, that doesn't understand the concepts of burden of proof, standard of proof, and rule of law (yes, admins SHOULD have fucking evidence on every ban they dish out: power demands responsibility and "too much work" is a bullshit stock excuse for autocratic behaviour) should not be an admin.

An admin that can't rationalise a situation and kicks and bans on impulse, gut feeling and other irrational grounds without justification that is clearly reasoned and supported with EVIDENCE should not be an admin.

An admin that can't differentiate between blind application of the word of rules between decent application of the spirit of rules should not be an admin.

An admin that makes assumptions, and defends their own decisions by bringing themselves above rationality (I paraphrase "Admins don't need evidence"), placing value judgements over fact should not be an admin.

An admin, whose decisions are so wild, so irrational and so broad that it's clear he makes rules up on the fly should not be an admin.

And finally, an admin that laughs on IRC on the triviality of the whole process of votes against him, who shows an utter disregard for OTHERS feelings and who lacks the maturity to stop acting like a clown in a position of power and actually take his job seriously, should not be an admin.

You start your post by talking about logic and your entire post is an appeal to human emotion. How bloody ironic.

+1, especially the bolded part.

Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 07:03:46 pm
An admin that can't tell the difference between an intentional TK, an unintentional TK, or doesn't know when to give the benefit of doubt when it is due shouldn't be an admin.

An admin, that doesn't understand the concepts of burden of proof, standard of proof, and rule of law (yes, admins SHOULD have fucking evidence on every ban they dish out: power demands responsibility and "too much work" is a bullshit stock excuse for autocratic behaviour) should not be an admin.

An admin that can't rationalise a situation and kicks and bans on impulse, gut feeling and other irrational grounds without justification that is clearly reasoned and supported with EVIDENCE should not be an admin.

An admin that can't differentiate between blind application of the word of rules between decent application of the spirit of rules should not be an admin.

An admin that makes assumptions, and defends their own decisions by bringing themselves above rationality (I paraphrase "Admins don't need evidence"), placing value judgements over fact should not be an admin.

An admin, whose decisions are so wild, so irrational and so broad that it's clear he makes rules up on the fly should not be an admin.

And finally, an admin that laughs on IRC on the triviality of the whole process of votes against him, who shows an utter disregard for OTHERS feelings and who lacks the maturity to stop acting like a clown in a position of power and actually take his job seriously, should not be an admin.

You start your post by talking about logic and your entire post is an appeal to human emotion. How bloody ironic.

I wish to enlighten people to the fact that Lilith kicked you. You seem angry thereof, and this could be considered retaliation.
I was present when said action happended. Lilith kicked you, because you started a kick poll against a player, who weren't in a unaccessible spot. The kick on you was thus justified.

Yes, I speak of emotion. A thing many people take in disregard, when speaking to and of the admins.

It is not very kind, to abuse the poll system. Then, when you get a slap on the wrist for -your- wrong action, begin/join a hetz against said admin.

This post you have written, allthough elaborate with words, seems to me as a person, like a rage post.
If that is the case it would be the wrong forum to discuss it, as the action taken towards you was legit.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 07:07:22 pm
Actually, you have completely mistaken me for someone else.

I was kicked, without warning, for 1 TK (unintentional) at the very end of the round with a clumsy stab from a pike. I then (intentionally) stabbed Ganon with the pike for a laugh. I then got a ban for daring the challenging the impenetrable wall of authority (read, abusive power) the admins have built up.

And this is the problem with this bloody forum. People not having the damn courtesy to get their facts right, or everyone breathing their opinions over everyone else without the proper knowledge and skills to justify it.

EDIT: One more thing, it is altogether irrelevant whether I am annoyed or not (ad hominem). To try and dismount someones argument like that is pure rhetoric.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: The_Bloody_Nine on February 27, 2011, 07:09:26 pm
by what i heard and read, both admins should loose their Powers.

Personnaly I never experienced these problems with Lilith or Wookie (well, nothing above some trolling, childish joking and not reasonable mapchanges in his case) though, so I won't participate on the vote.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 07:09:37 pm
Actually, you have completely mistaken me for someone else.

I was kicked for 1 TK (unintentional) at the very end of the round with a clumsy stab from a pike. I then (intentionally) stabbed Ganon with the pike for a laugh.

And this is the problem with this bloody forum. People not having the damn courtesy to get their facts right, or everyone breathing their opinions over everyone else without the proper knowledge and skills to justify it.

Pardon me. I remembered someone with the name Scotsman after a emotional feeling.
Perhaps it was on another of your characters. Or a friend of yours? I have perhaps made a wrong assumption. For that I apologize. Your name seemed extremely familiar.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Longshaft on February 27, 2011, 07:15:50 pm
I think it turns lilith on to use her admin powers cos she uses it whenever it might SEEM plausible, for example me and a friend on ts where having a punching match and if anything I was the one who would have lost any health (worse armour) then she warns me no tk'ing, I say "but i didnt tk blabla" no response. Then next round we are punching again, having many lolz then she kicks me, and I was on a x4 :( I come back and ask why kick, Reply= Tk'ing. :/

She is strokin' a huge one for banning and kicking all the bitches she can, she also mutes me whenever anyone makes any point against her that makes sense, doesnt want the rest of the server to realise her flaws as an admin.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 07:17:21 pm
No that is me. But that wasn't the thing that caused me to be here, as I've never been kicked for polling the last man standing on roof.

The reason why I poll last men standing on roof tops? You'll love this one: because people(read, plural, i.e. not just me) get "annoyed" (read, emotional) when their time is being wasted by someone.

So I always poll the last man standing who is genuinely stringing out a round to get things moving because I take great offence to people who waste others time: actions speak thousands or words, and their actions state "my time is worth more than the other 99 people on the server".

But that's a complete tangent.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 07:18:47 pm
I think it turns lilith on to use her admin powers cos she uses it whenever it might SEEM plausible, for example me and a friend on ts where having a punching match and if anything I was the one who would have lost any health (worse armour) then she warns me no tk'ing, I say "but i didnt tk blabla" no response. Then next round we are punching again, having many lolz then she kicks me, and I was on a x4 :( I come back and ask why kick, Reply= Tk'ing. :/

She is strokin' a huge one for banning and kicking all the bitches she can, she also mutes me whenever anyone makes any point against her that makes sense, doesnt want the rest of the server to realise her flaws as an admin.

An excellent example of him making up rules on the spot. I don't suppose he recorded it, took screenshots and logged it like everyone with responsbility should? Of course not.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 07:20:27 pm
No that is me. But that wasn't the thing that caused me to be here, as I've never been kicked for polling the last man standing on roof.

The reason why I poll last men standing on roof tops? You'll love this one: because people(read, plural, i.e. not just me) get "annoyed" (read, emotional) when their time is being wasted by someone.

So I always poll the last man standing who is genuinely stringing out a round to get things moving because I take great offence to people who waste others time: actions speak thousands or words, and their actions state "my time is worth more than the other 99 people on the server".

But that's a complete tangent.

It looked very much like you got kicked for polling against him, which'd make sense.
He didn't draw out the round. It was easily accessible. He was alone against 5. It was a low building. Your poll was not justified.

I believe that was the reason you were kicked. I might be wrong on that one ofcourse, but I do think, that if that was the reason, it would be legit.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 07:25:20 pm
It looked very much like you got kicked for polling against him, which'd make sense.
He didn't draw out the round. It was easily accessible. He was alone against 5. It was a low building. Your poll was not justified.

I believe that was the reason you were kicked. I might be wrong on that one ofcourse, but I do think, that if that was the reason, it would be legit.

It's worth pointing out it doesn't actually matter who says what since there is a complete lack of guidance for admins so that any "reason" is enough even if it isn't a "good" reason.

And, like I said, that's not why I am here: I have never been kicked for polling the last man on roof tops. How do I know this? Because I only poll time asters when no admins are on: the admins usually kick the same people I would poll for wasting time. And this is all off topic and irrelevant anyway.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 07:27:10 pm
It's worth pointing out it doesn't actually matter who says what since there is a complete lack of guidance for admins so that any "reason" is enough even if it isn't a "good" reason.

And, like I said, that's not why I am here: I have never been kicked for polling the last man on roof tops. How do I know this? Because I only poll time asters when no admins are on: the admins usually kick the same people I would poll for wasting time. And this is all off topic and irrelevant anyway.

In that case you are not that person, as that person kicked a last person, -while- and admin was on.
I am sorry to have mistaken you. My posts declaring your post illegit is declared illegit and I hold nothing against it.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vance on February 27, 2011, 07:29:24 pm
In that case you are not that person, as that person kicked a last person, -while- and admin was on.
I am sorry to have mistaken you. My posts declaring your post illegit is declared illegit and I hold nothing against it.

I think you're giving him too much credit, I doubt he's capable of detecting when an admin is on. Plus I've seen him poll the last guy when no timewasting is going on. Make your own mind up though, of course ;)

And, like I said, that's not why I am here: I have never been kicked for polling the last man on roof tops. How do I know this? Because I only poll time asters when no admins are on: the admins usually kick the same people I would poll for wasting time. And this is all off topic and irrelevant anyway.

lol that's like saying that you know because you know, pretty silly really.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ronrinesu on February 27, 2011, 07:31:32 pm
I think you're giving him too much credit, I doubt he's capable of detecting when an admin is on. Plus I've seen him poll the last guy when no timewasting is going on. Make your own mind up though, of course ;)

I can only say things. On what I see myself. I believe what I see with my own eyes. I wish not to slander a person who is wrongfully judged.

I will chose to believe that he isn't that person untill I can be sure that he is. I do not have any firm proof, afterall.
Thank you, in any case.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 07:33:57 pm
I think you're giving him too much credit, I doubt he's capable of detecting when an admin is on. Plus I've seen him poll the last guy when no timewasting is going on. Make your own mind up though, of course ;)

lol that's like saying that you know because you know, pretty silly really.

No, its me pointing out HOW I remember it. And I know an admin isn't on because if he were I'd be kicked for polling. Logic is wonderful isn't it?

And you're going off topic.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vance on February 27, 2011, 07:44:09 pm
No, its me pointing out HOW I remember it. And I know an admin isn't on because if he were I'd be kicked for polling. Logic is wonderful isn't it?

And you're going off topic.

No it's just you pretending to authority you don't have. If you believe your silly comments about Lilith's admining are offtopic then you're wrong about that too. Look at the title of the thread.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 07:47:40 pm
At which point did I say my comments about his admining are off topic? Do enlighten me.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vance on February 27, 2011, 07:49:35 pm
You don't need enlightenment, just some common sense ;)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 07:50:39 pm
You don't need enlightenment, just some common sense ;)

I read right through your bullshit and thats the comeback you have? Noted.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 27, 2011, 07:56:18 pm
Ok.
This is kinda sad, I think. AngryScotsman, youve already admitted that the tk you got kicked for was intentional.
If anyone wanna get this confirmed, look at his ownpost here:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2493.0.html
"I admit intention on the second matter, though it was done as a joke at the end of the round. The team mate did not die."
So then thats out of the discussion.

Then to the poll kick that Ronrinesu is pointing out, I remember that insident. A guy was on a roof, that was VERY easy to access, on a huge front. It gave him the back free, but that was all. Angryscotsman then abused his poll-power to try to cheat his way to easy victory by poll kicking the person. In this action AngryScotsman dis an abuse that is worse than anything Ive ever done.

Hes also stated that the rules doesnt apply to him. If he wanna tk people as a joke, he is free to do that. He disregard the rules, and should not be allowed to play the game.

This is why he hates me, and he dont deserve any more answers. Please ignore him.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 07:58:58 pm
Ok.
This is kinda sad, I think. AngryScotsman, youve already admitted that the tk you got kicked for was intentional.
If anyone wanna get this confirmed, look at his own post here:
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2493.0.html
So then thats out of the discussion.

Then to the poll kick that Ronrinesu is pointing out, I remember that insident. A guy was on a roof, that was VERY easy to access, on a huge front. It gave him the back free, but that was all. Angryscotsman then abused his poll-power to try to cheat his way to easy victory by poll kicking the person. In this action AngryScotsman dis an abuse that is worse than anything Ive ever done.

Hes also stated that the rules doesnt apply to him. If he wanna tk people as a joke, he is free to do that. He disregard the rules, and should not be allowed to play the game.

This is why he hates me, and he dont deserve any more answers. Please ignore him.

And this is why you shouldn't be an admin Lilith. In that same link you provide as evidence it clearly states in my post "I refuse to admit intention..." with reasons following.

You have no idea what the hell evidence is.

EDIT: And just before you spew out more bullshit, I will clearly state here why I have a problem with you.

I TKed unintentionally or intentionally. I know it was unintentional. The burden of proof is on you to show that it was intentional. You have no evidence of this at all. Your master defence for your lack of reasoning is that "admins don't need evidence" among other autocratic bullshit.

You are irrational: you are unfit to be an admin.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Jarlek on February 27, 2011, 08:02:34 pm
I admit intention on the second matter, though it was done as a joke at the end of the round. The team mate did not die. This is apparently against server rules (which may I point out were only published on this forum after I challenged this decision, someone had to copy them over from the Taleworlds forum). If that is the retrospective case, then I apologise.
I just read that. Seems like you did an intentional attack on a teammate. Sounds like good evidence to me :D
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 27, 2011, 08:05:04 pm
I just read that. Seems like you did an intentional attack on a teammate. Sounds like good evidence to me :D

Yes, on the SECOND matter (stabbing Ganon for a laugh). I openly admit I was wrong there. However, I had tked right at the end of the round prior to this. That WAS accidental, and this appalling excuse of an admin somehow linked the two incidents. He didn't even get his facts right, accusing me of TWO TKs when there was in actuality only ONE.

And, to top it all off, he has no evidence: no logs, no screenshots, no videos, nothing. His defence is "I am an admin."
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Karmazyn on February 27, 2011, 09:53:02 pm
I would suggest that eu admins play a bit on NA siege server and watch how Nindurr_ATS moderate.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 27, 2011, 10:01:55 pm
I would suggest that eu admins play a bit on NA siege server and watch how Nindurr_ATS moderate.

Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Lt_Anders on February 27, 2011, 10:37:06 pm
I would suggest that eu admins play a bit on NA siege server and watch how Nindurr_ATS moderate.

Oh nindurr got admin now?

He didn't have it a month ago.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ninja_Khorin on February 27, 2011, 10:51:36 pm
I support both. I have only ever seen them ban people for legit reasons or people that have been just generally annoying  :wink:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on February 27, 2011, 11:03:49 pm
To be honest, after ppl got admin rights ingame, this game was starting to get boring.!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on February 27, 2011, 11:05:40 pm
To be honest, after ppl got admin rights ingame, this game was starting to get boring.!
TBH, not many people have somewhat accurate memories of what the game was like before that.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vicious666 on February 27, 2011, 11:15:46 pm
the problem is how this mod chose theyr admin :a fucking forum with ppl, ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.

so we end with admin like wooki   ,       raise your standard, and we will have less whine about bad  administrators 
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 27, 2011, 11:16:55 pm
ME ME ME ME ME ME ME.

Vicious for admin!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: LordBerenger on February 27, 2011, 11:23:25 pm
Just make Balton admin and justice will be served i'm sure.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vicious666 on February 27, 2011, 11:30:22 pm
Vicious for admin!

no thx.

i am not a good administrator becouse even if i am pretty fair and logic,     i am a flamer.          :) , and i like to flame and troll
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Karmazyn on February 27, 2011, 11:35:37 pm
Oh nindurr got admin now?

He didn't have it a month ago.
Now yes, earlier I don’t know.
I only was on NA because EU siege had problems last days. I saw NA admin Nindurr acting, I was so WoW, that is what people want. Then I remembered that Lilith (?!) wanted help me and suggested to buy a shield and I thought that I can now give a good suggestion back. Thats all.

Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Banok on February 28, 2011, 07:20:38 am
They both seem like cool guys to me so nothing personal, but the very small experience I have with their admin-ing was not positive.

the argument in wooki's thread that admins shouldn't troll the forums is a good one, but unfortunately invalidated by the chadz:

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: BD_Guard_Bane on February 28, 2011, 08:18:44 am
The problem is, how does this process of nomination + vote differentiate between:

1) Players who resent admins exercising authority over them (justified or not)

2) Players who want to see if the process will work, out of curiosity (cats)

3) Players who have no personal experience of bad-adminship, but want to side with their friends (tribalism)

4) Players who vote based on personal feelings toward an admin, not on the quality of their admin decisions

6) Players who are affected by rhetoric or persuasive posts from people with a vested interest in the results (political campaigning)

7) Players who don't have any experience of the admin's decisions and actions, but will vote in a poll if one is put up

8) Players who have actual experience of poor decisions made by an admin, and believe for good reasons that those decisions were not a momentary error, but will continue due to the nature of the particular admin.

I have a feeling that groups 1-7 are quite large, but group 8 is very small. Maybe I'm wrong :)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: IG_Saint on February 28, 2011, 10:43:45 am
I've been meaning to ask liltih something: Why do you kick spectators that are afk? Just the other day I had to go afk for +/- 15 minutes, so I joined spectators to preserve my x5. I come back and find I'd been kicked by lilith. The server at the time had less than 30 people on. I'd done nothing wrong, I wasn't bothering anyone, I wasn't blocking people from joining the server. It was just a completely meaningless kick. It doesn't really matter obviously, lost a x5, who cares, but maybe not the best choice for a admin that's already facing losing his admin right.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ganon on February 28, 2011, 10:45:46 am
The problem is, how does this process of nomination + vote differentiate between:

1) Players who resent admins exercising authority over them (justified or not)

2) Players who want to see if the process will work, out of curiosity (cats)

3) Players who have no personal experience of bad-adminship, but want to side with their friends (tribalism)

4) Players who vote based on personal feelings toward an admin, not on the quality of their admin decisions

6) Players who are affected by rhetoric or persuasive posts from people with a vested interest in the results (political campaigning)

7) Players who don't have any experience of the admin's decisions and actions, but will vote in a poll if one is put up

8) Players who have actual experience of poor decisions made by an admin, and believe for good reasons that those decisions were not a momentary error, but will continue due to the nature of the particular admin.

I have a feeling that groups 1-7 are quite large, but group 8 is very small. Maybe I'm wrong :)

Those are the problems with democracy, before this change we had a different method in choosing admins, neither is perfect but we know for sure the old method had some questionable results.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: IG_Saint on February 28, 2011, 11:08:14 am
Those are the problems with democracy, before this change we had a different method in choosing admins, neither is perfect but we know for sure the old method had some questionable results.

What new method for choosing admins? All we got was the ability to get rid of a bad admin. As far as I remember the admins were all chosen by chadz and the other admins. Not a perfect method, but alot beter than a popularity vote. And tbh I can't think of a beter way, unless you go for an IG style admin selection, where you monitor the prospective admins for a couple of months, to make sure he can handle the responsibilty, before giving them the rights.

And let's face it, chadz has more important things to do than making sure every admin is perfect (like giving us back xp/gold on the duel server :D)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: bruce on February 28, 2011, 12:00:09 pm
I've been meaning to ask liltih something: Why do you kick spectators that are afk? Just the other day I had to go afk for +/- 15 minutes, so I joined spectators to preserve my x5. I come back and find I'd been kicked by lilith. The server at the time had less than 30 people on. I'd done nothing wrong, I wasn't bothering anyone, I wasn't blocking people from joining the server. It was just a completely meaningless kick. It doesn't really matter obviously, lost a x5, who cares, but maybe not the best choice for a admin that's already facing losing his admin right.

Well, beat being kicked out for having high ping at round start, by Lilith of course. Random and silly, and has nothing to do with any rules.



Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on February 28, 2011, 12:01:37 pm
Why is it that it is the 2 most active admins that are being polled? Just something to think about.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Quirian on February 28, 2011, 12:18:23 pm
Because Balton is campaigning against admins, I say ban him!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Ganon on February 28, 2011, 12:25:28 pm
Why is it that it is the 2 most active admins that are being polled? Just something to think about.

There are plenty of other admins who are very active but not being polled. The rules have to be refined of course, revenge polling has to be ruled out, as revenge +1s of banned players, when their ban wasn't controversial.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: MrExxc on February 28, 2011, 12:33:59 pm
As said earlier, the admins have free operation process, and that just creates polemics.
There should be a patern on how to punish a misacting cRPG'er.

Example:
 -You tk or intentionally TK at the end of the round or whatever? You get warned.
-Second time, might it not be the same day, who cares, you get a kick, if you complain, you just get plain muted.
-3rd time, ban.

This might even seem a little to soft, maybe skip the first step. Cuz "just a warning" won't make the poor dead TKed guy feel like he's been avenged. If you have straight rules on how to act with troublemakers, then admin decisions should technically never be questionned.

Maybe we should try to elect admins ourself, at least it would be democratic. If we had the chance to vote on the admins, maybe these 2 guys wouldn't have been elected, who knows? There are plenty of active players on cRPG that definitely deserve to become admin. I personally think the shogunates -except George probably- would make good admins, they are always very fair and noble, although I'm not playin 24/7 so maybe I'm wrong?

PS: About Balton, why do you guys even bother reading his posts? Leave the guy, and he'll vanish by himself. Whenever I see he posted, I just ignore it and switch to the one right under. I only hope he won't post something interesting one day that I might miss, but I doubt about it... Oh, and also stop giving him -Awesomepoints, he's probably proud of them.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Balton on February 28, 2011, 12:36:58 pm
Just make Balton admin and justice will be served i'm sure.

We would truly see the definition of a Golden Age.

Because Balton is campaigning against admins, I say ban him!

You're right bro, I am the sole reason of why admins are about to lose their positions. Seems like even admins have to answer to me.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Duerkos on February 28, 2011, 01:00:10 pm
I'm new in the multiplayer warband world, but I've been an admin for two years in another game and I want to share my two cents about it.

When you are an admin, specially those who have to kick/ban people, you have to try not to be wrong. However, you are human (surprise) and you make mistakes sometimes. For instance, you cannot see what is happening at all times in the battlefield because (surprise) you also like to play , so as the same as in real life sports, sometimes errors are made.

However, when you ban in person (not in front of 100 people like it is the case here) if you make an error and that person demonstrates you were incorrect , you can be sorry, unban him and he is happy again. But if there are 100 people out there some will apreciate that a lot and 2-4 people might get the wrong idea and think they can do whatever they want as long they say they are sorry or "the admin is mistaken".

That's why sometimes admins make an error, and don't say "sorry, I didn't know". Cause actually admins don't know everything that happens.

All that said, if the error is a kick you shouldnt be mad about it. If it is a small ban you can argue it and I'm sure the admin will know if it's right or not, and of course if it is a large ban its going to be a drama. But I don't think thats the case.

Also the "assholes" out there teasing admins and such only make things more difficult to them. Trying to bend rules also makes that, cause the admin cannot know if you were trying to be an asshole in that tk or you simply were playing with a friend. So the rules are there to make things simpler for both admins and players, follow them (even if your intentions are good) and everything will be allright.

PD: Some of the veteran players say rules are not clear (if it deserves a kick or ban or what). That should be addressed, if all admins do the same (special cases will be always there) with the normal TK and such, it will be good for both players and you admins.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: MrExxc on February 28, 2011, 02:10:18 pm
Also the "assholes" out there teasing admins and such only make things more difficult to them.

There are indeed a lot of 'em messing with admins... :?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 28, 2011, 02:24:10 pm
There are indeed a lot of 'em messing with admins... :?

Never fear, the I.S.P.C.A. has it covered.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Babelfish on February 28, 2011, 02:40:34 pm
Never fear, the I.S.P.C.A. has it covered.

Who and what is I.S.P.C.A? And where do i apply?  :o
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Mizuk on February 28, 2011, 02:41:37 pm
When you go to job interview you will go thru selection process, its likely that you need good qualifications/skills/references to get the job.

In here i fail to understand on what basis admins being selected, i would rather have no admins as players can make vote decisions themselves who to kick/mute. Lets create anarchy! Fuck the power abusers!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Babelfish on February 28, 2011, 02:55:41 pm
When you go to job interview you will go thru selection process, its likely that you need good qualifications/skills/references to get the job.

In here i fail to understand on what basis admins being selected, i would rather have no admins as players can make vote decisions themselves who to kick/mute. Lets create anarchy! Fuck the power abusers!

Much like how you selected someone to referee a youngins football match. No real qualification needed, because its a fun match.

If this was a project by a serious cooperation, job interviews would be mandatory for admins, but this is not the case.

Your fault is viewing admins as actual administrators/game-masters..

Admins are first-and-foremost players, then humans and last admins. By that i mean, they play and have fun until they see something nasty, then human emotions comes into play, and mistakes can be made. After some banter back and forth, they will evaluate the situation, and act accordingly.   

Expecting someone to focus on being a admin without pay, is nuts.


 
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Quirian on February 28, 2011, 03:04:03 pm
Nice Video babelfish!

What program are you using? Vegas?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Babelfish on February 28, 2011, 03:09:05 pm
Nice Video babelfish!

What program are you using? Vegas?

Thanks, adobe premiere :o
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 28, 2011, 03:36:14 pm
Who and what is I.S.P.C.A? And where do i apply?  :o

International Society for the Protection from Cruelty to Admins.

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2431.msg42582.html#msg42582
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 28, 2011, 04:45:29 pm
Well, beat being kicked out for having high ping at round start, by Lilith of course. Random and silly, and has nothing to do with any rules.

Also random accusations that are not true are just random and silly, and have nothing to do with me being admin or not.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: IG_Saint on February 28, 2011, 04:57:28 pm
Also random accusations that are not true are just random and silly, and have nothing to do with me being admin or not.

You still haven't answered my question as to why you found it neccessary to kick afk spectators on a server with less than 30 people on.

Screenie in case you don't remember:
(click to show/hide)

Don't get me wrong, I don't care that I got kicked, I just find this kick to be way too power crazy. "what, afk for 15 minutes?! Not on my server!", that kind of attitude.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Quirian on February 28, 2011, 04:59:00 pm
If you don't care, then shut the fuck up... omg... he is admin, you are not. Thats the rules, if he kicks spectators, rejoin and stop crying like a six year old girlie who's barbie was stolen.

Yours sincerely
Quirian
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: IG_Saint on February 28, 2011, 05:01:28 pm
If you don't care, then shut the fuck up... omg... he is admin, you are not. Thats the rules, if he kicks spectators, rejoin and stop crying like a six year old girlie who's barbie was stolen.

Yours sincerely
Quirian

I don't care about the kick, but I do care about what rights admins have and whether or not lilith should keep his admin powers. Just to clarify, I think he does, I'm just of the opinion that he's a bit over zealous at times.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Toffi on February 28, 2011, 05:12:44 pm
OMG OMG HE KICKED THE SPECTATORS!!!

Guys this thread is getting silly right now.

Why shouldn't the spectators get kicked? And even if they are kicked, and are spectating, just rejoin...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on February 28, 2011, 05:16:54 pm
Why shouldn't the spectators get kicked?

Because it's annoying and pointless.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: IG_Saint on February 28, 2011, 05:20:46 pm
Why shouldn't the spectators get kicked? And even if they are kicked, and are spectating, just rejoin...

Because baseless kicks are exactly the sort of thing that got all the admin abuse crap started. Admins shouldn't kick someone without a good reason, same goes for bans.

Anyway this might all be moot anyway, since I read somewhere that the admins are working on a revised server rule list? I hope that will also include some boundaries for the admins as too when they can mute/kick/ban and when and if a map change is allowed.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Tears of Destiny on February 28, 2011, 05:55:45 pm
Considering even a spectator degrades the server and lowers performance, I am all for kicking spectators if there are a lot of them and the map is having fps issues due to things like fog.

Also due to teamspeak I have seen dedicated spectators screw up a fight by blabbing about the enemy.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 28, 2011, 05:57:44 pm
Ah yes. I did kick 4 spectators yesterday, after observing em being there for over 30 minutes. I also admitted several times on the server that this was a mistake of me because I was not aware that people kept their multiplior if they vent to spectator mode. Everyone who asked me on the channel got that answer.
Im still sorry, and Ive promised to never do it again.

But I didnt do it of arrogance, but because I was told spectators was increasing the ping. After starting a discussion about it among the admins, I was informed that its not enough to be noticed.

This tho is not an example of an admin abuse, but of an admin doing an error, for which Ive apologised for.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: bruce on February 28, 2011, 06:08:32 pm
Also random accusations that are not true are just random and silly, and have nothing to do with me being admin or not.

Sadly I don't have a screenshot of it, but I saw it and when I asked you about the kick you said "high ping". Of course, it's word against word, you're free to say it never happened.

Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: IG_Saint on February 28, 2011, 06:10:27 pm
Ah yes. I did kick 4 spectators yesterday, after observing em being there for over 30 minutes. I also admitted several times on the server that this was a mistake of me because I was not aware that people kept their multiplior if they vent to spectator mode. Everyone who asked me on the channel got that answer.
Im still sorry, and Ive promised to never do it again.

But I didnt do it of arrogance, but because I was told spectators was increasing the ping. After starting a discussion about it among the admins, I was informed that its not enough to be noticed.

This tho is not an example of an admin abuse, but of an admin doing an error, for which Ive apologised for.

No worries, mistakes happen. Thanks for apologizing, that's all I wanted tbh. This thread is full of you defending yourself against unjust accusers and I just wanted to see how'd you react to a situation where you made the wrong call. And you handled it good. If you didn't already have it, you'd have my +1.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 28, 2011, 06:12:14 pm
Sadly I don't have a screenshot of it, but I saw it and when I asked you about the kick you said "high ping". Of course, it's word against word, you're free to say it never happened.
Yes, I have kicked some people with higher than 600 ping after theyve messed up on the battlefield. But never in the situation you described.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on February 28, 2011, 09:31:59 pm
Yes, I have kicked some people with higher than 600 ping after theyve messed up on the battlefield. But never in the situation you described.

Bullshit. As if your memory is that good. You've already said that I was once kicked by you for polling someone on a roof top; which is completely wrong.

Evidence? None. Not surprised. Not one bit.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: The_Newer_Wind on February 28, 2011, 10:22:16 pm
Personaly I do not see why lileth should be removed, I have never encountered any problems with her, nor did see anyone either. She is a good and kind person and does not abuse power. I have never seen Nuffen(oh, its her). Also, i almost always have high ping, and sometimes it causes the menu where the quit and other buttons get frozen and you can leave, I actually asked for a kick because I could not exit because of my high ping. I even remember when she was still starting out and not a admin.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on February 28, 2011, 11:19:08 pm
Bullshit. As if your memory is that good.

Challenge accepted.

It got a river streaming like a L through a village. 1/3rd of the village is "under" the L, and theres a small bridge leading over to the major part. This bridge continues the gate that goes stright through the whole map and ends on the foot of some hills where the attackers usually come from.

From the attackers side, you'll see farmland on left side, while there is a building on the right side. This buildings roof goes nearly down to the ground, and is very easy to jump up on.
You were 4 alive people, he was only 1. He was on this roof, probably to make sure you wouldnt sneak up from behind. He was easy to see, and as mentioned, it was very easy to jump up on the roof. Thats where you abused your power and poll-kicked him, while he was not breaking any rules at all.


The incident with the ping that bruce refers to happened at the field by river map, after watching the guy "teleporting" around making it very hard for others to play, as he never was where you should expect him to be, I kicked him for destroying the game for the others. I gave him plenty of time to fix his ping.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Murmillus_Prime on February 28, 2011, 11:30:14 pm
I've not had issues with lilith for a long time, but there have been a few in the past. I've had 0 issues with wooki, even when he randomly changed the map here and there because that's the worst I've seen of him. Yet lilith has kicked sometimes or banned when it wasn't needed, I havent seen it recently I'll add but, its nothing vs something in my opinion.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on March 01, 2011, 12:11:14 am
Challenge accepted.

It got a river streaming like a L through a village. 1/3rd of the village is "under" the L, and theres a small bridge leading over to the major part. This bridge continues the gate that goes stright through the whole map and ends on the foot of some hills where the attackers usually come from.

From the attackers side, you'll see farmland on left side, while there is a building on the right side. This buildings roof goes nearly down to the ground, and is very easy to jump up on.
You were 4 alive people, he was only 1. He was on this roof, probably to make sure you wouldnt sneak up from behind. He was easy to see, and as mentioned, it was very easy to jump up on the roof. Thats where you abused your power and poll-kicked him, while he was not breaking any rules at all.


The incident with the ping that bruce refers to happened at the field by river map, after watching the guy "teleporting" around making it very hard for others to play, as he never was where you should expect him to be, I kicked him for destroying the game for the others. I gave him plenty of time to fix his ping.

Didn't I say couple of posts back eveything you put forward as evidence is totally anecdotal and hearsay and not substantive at all? Yes I did.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on March 01, 2011, 12:11:56 am
Didn't I say couple of posts back eveything you put forward as evidence is totally anecdotal and hearsay and not substantive at all? Yes I did.

Your not answering the quote your quoting.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on March 01, 2011, 12:23:22 am
And you've yet to answer where you  conjured the number 2 from when relating to the number of TKs I allegedly done.

In fact, you've yet to show where you pull any piece of information from except your own biased view of the whole situation.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Thtb on March 01, 2011, 12:36:41 am
Well obviously lilith is total sh- You have been kicked from the Server
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: bruce on March 01, 2011, 01:59:40 am
The incident with the ping that bruce refers to happened at the field by river map,

No, but on ruins.

after watching the guy "teleporting" around making it very hard for others to play

Actually, this happens randomly after a horse-to-horse collision or horse to obstacle collision, when a horse will start randomly teleporting around until you stop the horse, wait for a few seconds, and then you can resume moving normally. Which is obviously not a option when you're near enemy horsemen/ranged/etc, where you have to teleport around to get away from danger and then stop your horse. It won't stop teleporting until you stop moving, however, once it happens.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on March 01, 2011, 02:02:06 am
Didn't I say couple of posts back eveything you put forward as evidence is totally anecdotal and hearsay and not substantive at all? Yes I did.

How is it that you can make accusations backed up by something there is no evidence it actually happened the way you are describing it, yet you expect lilith to back up her every word with proof.

Also, from what I've seen in game, you stand up to your nick, and I'm happy you were finally banned (even though for something else and only temporarily), because your flaming in game was annyoing to say the least.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Sharky on March 01, 2011, 04:55:04 am
I disagree on this admin bans voting thing. I hadn't any troubles with eu admins on crpg, while i disagree on the behavior of some of them on strategus (but honestly can't even remember who they were)
Anyway seems to me that pissed off guys will be more eager to cast a vote, then an happy player that will probably never reach this shores.
I think that they should need more then 51% negative votes to get banned.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on March 01, 2011, 06:51:45 am
No, but on ruins.

Nope, never kicked anyone for high ping on ruins, so you got me confused with someone else.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 09:42:06 am
My, my. Extending the thread to myself.  :?

Well, i would love to hear some valid reasons for me being voted, apart from me obviously pissing off a clan or two by not really giving exceptions to their leaders (not calling any names here). Lack of critique makes me feel unsure and confused :(
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Camaris on March 01, 2011, 10:09:25 am
Tbh i voted 3 times no so far.
I can see that there were mistakes from admins but i cant see why those should be enough to revoke rights.

Wookie probably will ask in future if he changes map to field by a river.
And PTX and Lilith... dont really know what they did but they will be more careful in future.

And tbh i cant vote yes if votes are started by people i would ban from every server if i´d been admin :p
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: LLJK_Korea1 on March 01, 2011, 10:25:14 am
I want to marry Lilith.

Also I don't understand why [ptx] is on the poll  :?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: krampe on March 01, 2011, 11:53:59 am
I want to marry Lilith.

Also I don't understand why [ptx] is on the poll  :?

Only because Balton was griefing everyone and everything and started random nominations.
Thank god he is gone!


P.S. VOTE NO on all three!

Wookie god damn troll but always fun! <3
Lillith very strict but always tolerable
ptx never seen any ingame abuse at all
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: LLJK_Korea1 on March 01, 2011, 11:58:27 am
Only because Balton was griefing everyone and everything and started random nominations.
Thank god he is gone!


P.S. VOTE NO on all three!

Wookie god damn troll but always fun! <3
Lillith very strict but always tolerable
ptx never seen any abuse at all

Voted no on Lilith and ptx and yes for wookie  :P
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Zaar on March 01, 2011, 12:03:46 pm
I'm not voting on anything(for now).

I just wanted to comment something. I saw that someone was arguing with Lilith about her kicking him, thus losing his x? bonus.

Lilith said he blocked the ladders on purpose and with that slowed teams progress.

The guy kicked said it was his own ladder and that he can do whatever he wants on them.


If you ask me, both have a point.

HOWEVER, I would say neither argument is (that) relevant. The problem should have been solved by them talking about it before the actual kick, not after. Perhaps he could have gotten a warning not to block ladders even if it's his until the admin can ask other admins(or whoever) about the ruling on that.

Well, that's about it from me  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vexus on March 01, 2011, 12:08:53 pm
At first I voted yes for lilith but changed it to a no.

Lilith needs to warn sometimes not kick/ban instantly.

Ptx voted no, no idea why he was nominated.

Wookie voted yes, his attitude is not good for a moderator.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Shogunate_Subotai_III on March 01, 2011, 12:17:57 pm
Voted for no one.

Wookie, my clanmate, has kicked me very often.....but not on serious occasion, but as a funny thing because of some silly bullshitting on TS.

ptx and lillith i had no problems.

and here something:

some Admins are to soft, many dont kick the runners or the cliffhangers who make some serious downtime ingame. Wookie maybe a little bit crazy and fast pissed off....but lamers and campers get a fast retribution from him.

and Wookies thing was between him and Georges.....it was a big fault to ban georges (who can be a very major pain in the ass if he griefes someone <3 ) but they settled the argument (clanmates!)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: LLJK_Korea1 on March 01, 2011, 12:20:46 pm
I'm not voting on anything(for now).

I just wanted to comment something. I saw that someone was arguing with Lilith about her kicking him, thus losing his x? bonus.

Lilith said he blocked the ladders on purpose and with that slowed teams progress.

The guy kicked said it was his own ladder and that he can do whatever he wants on them.


If you ask me, both have a point.

HOWEVER, I would say neither argument is (that) relevant. The problem should have been solved by them talking about it before the actual kick, not after. Perhaps he could have gotten a warning not to block ladders even if it's his until the admin can ask other admins(or whoever) about the ruling on that.

Well, that's about it from me  :mrgreen:

What I've seen Lilith doing is that s/he registers a complaint, observes, if subject continues being an asshat, Lilith kicks the said subject. Sometimes there are mistakes but we all do them, and if losing your x5 is the end of the world, I suggest you start seeing you local therapist.  :wink:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Zotte on March 01, 2011, 12:31:29 pm
Why is pTx even being voted on? His nomination thread was starting by Balton who made it cause of [pTx] doing something which apparently another admin did? bit confusing...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Punisher on March 01, 2011, 12:32:43 pm
No for [ptx], I really see no reason to have him removed.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 12:33:12 pm
I would like to add that Lilith/Nuffen is the most active EU admin, currently. Even if Nuffen makes errors and, in my opinion, could grow a bit thicker skin, no other admin puts as much time and effort into keeping the servers clean.
For example, when we were made aware of the siege autobalance exploit, it was Nuffen, who almost single-handedly weeded out these exploiters. And, yes, it takes more effort to spot these exploiters than most other rule-breakers.

Remove vote = Change vote, it is still there, just a few hours left on those polls...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Blondin on March 01, 2011, 01:17:18 pm
About 8 month that i play cRPG and i never had any issue nor even a word with any admin, how ppl do to have problem with admin?

Wrong behaviour may be...

And how can we blame an admin because he's'doing his job (btw job for free).

I'm sure the idea of polling admin removal was made in a good mind, but seriously there are way more griefers than bad admin. That's the real problem, too many griefers, when you see the behaviour of some players, the trolling in chat, leeching, exploiting, and all the bs, how an admin can stay tolerant and don't ban them? Then it's pretty easy to be upset and starting kicking for minor reasons, or making a mistake.

Without asslicking :
Continue the job, ban the griefers!!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: AngryScotsman on March 01, 2011, 01:35:02 pm
How is it that you can make accusations backed up by something there is no evidence it actually happened the way you are describing it, yet you expect lilith to back up her every word with proof.

Also, from what I've seen in game, you stand up to your nick, and I'm happy you were finally banned (even though for something else and only temporarily), because your flaming in game was annyoing to say the least.

Because I'm not the one in a position of power and responsibility. The moment people in a position of power stop being ACCOUNTABLE by producing HARD EVIDENCE they start being ABUSIVE of that power. He has everything to prove and me nothing: innocent until proven guilty.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: BlameMeForTheNoise on March 01, 2011, 01:49:23 pm
I have never seen Lilith do anything wrong... (And i play almost everyday for two - five hours on the EU-Servers)

I agree on Wookie being easily offended and trolling a lot. But i think thats rather amusing and never seems to be too serious...
The thing with Georges and him was between the two and is settled as far as i know.

And for the mapchanges: I used to notice, that even before he was nominated he was asking everytime before a mapchange. And if the majority declined he didnt change. He DID however changed the map more often if the majority was asking for it...

If someone is afk at the end of a battle-round or using construction-sites to block on siege-maps he did respond in an appropriate way.
This is not me defending a clanmate, but me stating my neutral opinion.




Voted no for both.
And i would say that there are way too many people behaving like raging childs in a supermarket who dont get the delicious chocolatebar they want and blame their mother...
Examples in this thread galore...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: Nemeth on March 01, 2011, 02:13:25 pm
Because I'm not the one in a position of power and responsibility. The moment people in a position of power stop being ACCOUNTABLE by producing HARD EVIDENCE they start being ABUSIVE of that power. He has everything to prove and me nothing: innocent until proven guilty.

You need to stop thinking about this as if this was real life legal procces. You are not going to jail and they are not payed for their job. If they see you break the rules, they will kick/ban you. It's your turn then to provide evidence that you didn't do what you are accused of. You have acces to the recent events (L in game), you can take screenshots to support your defense. If you can't even do that, it's your loss I guess...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki and Lilith/Nuffen - DISCUSSION
Post by: krampe on March 01, 2011, 03:14:01 pm
Because I'm not the one in a position of power and responsibility. The moment people in a position of power stop being ACCOUNTABLE by producing HARD EVIDENCE they start being ABUSIVE of that power. He has everything to prove and me nothing: innocent until proven guilty.

Only a small example of the behaviour of a player named angryscotsman:

The recent Fallen all CRPG tournament, most content and disciplined tournament so far, except of only ONE player, the already mentioned angryscotsman who ran into the battle arena twice, got killed the second time by the referee, did not learn anything and went back to take revenge on that referee.

final result: perm ban
goodbye griefer!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Tai Feng on March 01, 2011, 03:14:46 pm
Now that I'm finally unMuted (a result of biased abuse of course, but that's another story), let me add few things here:



1. Great thread ;) Had fun reading it.

2. Both Wookie and Lilith continually abused their powers, as is pretty evident, and the only way for them to remain admins is by heavy faction-lobbying.


2 a) Abuses of Wookie are too numerous to count, so I'll just post one. I teamwound (without killing) AFKers horse on spawn. OK fine, I'm not saying that this should be allowed. What Wookie does is give me 1 (one) week ban, and his explanation why this ban was 1 week instead of 1 day was: "You hit Shogunate member."  That's his explanation in the old forum. And - the best part follows - instead of apologizing to me, he threatens with 'you better not do it again or else'.


2 b) Lilith. He made me lose x3 by kicking me from the server unjustly. I broke no rule other than the one in his own head. The entire situation requires a bit more clarification. I am a crossbowman. This means that I need a good spot for ambushes, a spot where I am not noticed. That means that often (not always) people following me reduce my ability to kill. I carry ladders. This mind sound like a silly statement so let me explain. :)  When I don't carry ladders (1h+shield build) I can ask my team for an hour straight and no one will help out with ladders (I am not exaggerating). When I finally take my own ladders, 20 people follow me on 1 tiny roof (note: sometimes I put ladders for everyone - but not always). With 20 people on 1 tiny roof we all get shot easily.
So why did Lilith ban me? You see, I placed my own ladder on a roof. Then I jumped on the 2nd floor (not the roof - which was accessible too) in order to hide in the haystack. But, I stood at the edge of the floor, and was trying to destroy the ladder (but I had to wait till others move off it). Here comes the entertaining part: two teammates try to jump on the 2nd floor (one of them infantry peasant). They fail to jump over me (standing still), and fall on the ground (they didn't die, but lost some health I assume). It's not like I wanted them to lose the health - I was simply hoping they would get the hint and go to the roof or elsewhere. Then Lilith kicks me off the server, with the explanation that I was 'hurting the team'. Mind you, I am not the best player, but my kick hurt the team far more than whatever transpired a minute earlier.

The bottomline is: you can't just come up with your own rules and kick/ban people for fun. "Teamhurting"? Really? Why don't you kick 1/4 of the team who suicides to death by doing frontal charge instead of going with the team plan?

Admins should not abuse their power to punish jaywalking but to eliminate serious offenses.
 


3) Good riddance.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Brutal on March 01, 2011, 03:29:32 pm
I voted no for all cuz I like everybody :D  and i can't complain about any admin so far .

I especially like admin that have the balls to that take action against bigmouth and "important" figures of this community when they grief or leech.


Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on March 01, 2011, 04:08:40 pm
Tai Feng: hurting teammates intentionally is against the rules. I didnt just notice you, I was there, I saw exactly what you did. You climbed up the ladder, ran into the hay to hide, saw others coming up on the ladder, and ran back to push em down. Its a pretty hard fall that killed about 50% of peoples hp.
For this you should have been banned, and next time I will ban you for it.

II) Battle mode and Strategus Battle mode specific rules
1) No intentional teamwounding/teamkilling
http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,2492.0.html
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Tai Feng on March 01, 2011, 04:18:39 pm
Tai Feng: hurting teammates intentionally is against the rules. I didnt just notice you, I was there, I saw exactly what you did. You climbed up the ladder, ran into the hay to hide, saw others coming up on the ladder, and ran back to push em down. Its a pretty hard fall that killed about 50% of peoples hp.
For this you should have been banned, and next time I will ban you for it.

There you go, what more proof is needed that this admin needs to go?

He doesn't even understand what is intentional teamhurting and what not. Please remove him immediately.


It's pointless to explain to Lilith (I tried) so for the audience: which part of "I stood still" is not clear here? I didn't push anyone anywhere. They wanted to jump over me, failed, and fell down. It was my ladder, they were hurting my position as a hiding xbowman, and that's that. And I always destroy my own ladders so enemy can't get to me nor know where I am. Don't like it? DONT CLIMB MY LADDER. Simple.

Quote
It's an honor to get your yes-vote, because it shows that Im doing something right. :)

Sad psychology trick. You're a bad admin, and you're so bad you don't even realize you're bad. With you as admin we will soon need a law book and lawyers to interpret it.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on March 01, 2011, 04:23:51 pm
You did'nt stand still, as i described in my post. :)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: LordBerenger on March 01, 2011, 04:26:47 pm
When do we get results? I want to see if this shit is rigged or not  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Xant on March 01, 2011, 04:34:14 pm
2 hours
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on March 01, 2011, 05:14:47 pm
i Think Ptx is a good Admin..Lilith is OK aswell.
But tbh, i think Wooki is a little worse, not really bad tho, but changing map all the time is just annoying...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 05:25:55 pm
And yet you had to provide the 20th nomination for me, Ragnar. Tsk, tsk, people...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Sean_Drew on March 01, 2011, 05:27:00 pm
I think having Admins on the servers , for most of the time is a big Plus , and makes this game very good.

I have seen teamdamagers , that tried to destroy the game , cause they behave like crazy , and the admins kicked them , or maybe ban them.

Thats good.

I only remember Lilith/Nuffen of these 3 Admins , and i can tell , that he made a very good job.

Maybe i have seen the other ones too, but can´t remember , what they have made for a job.

But most admins make a good job. Can´t remember one , who was aboosing or, doing strange things .... or lets say .... bad things ...

They are ok !


THX Admins ! :-)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Karmazyn on March 01, 2011, 05:38:46 pm
Because nominations are public many people don’t want get watched/muted when the nomination or poll fails. I remember after my post in nomination thread of ptx was a post of Olwen, now it’s deleted!
Another question why can’t we see the results live, remember many people don’t post on forums but would maybe vote if it would be important.
Then there are NA players, most of them don’t play on EU servers and they don’t know the admins but have a vote while the muted EU players can’t vote.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: jspook on March 01, 2011, 05:43:55 pm
What is so hard to understand about the rules?
Are most of the offenders illiterate?  or just reading comprehension challenged?
as in this last little spat with tai feng and lilith.  the rules are clear.  No intentional team damage.  and yet all of these people always skip over the part where they screwed over someone else on their own team and point to some illogical argument that what they were doing happened to be the single most important thing on the map.
How narcissitic can you get?

This entire experiment is fail.  99% of these admins are doing a great job.  and the fact that people hate these admins is evidence enough.

just follow the rules.  how hard is that?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Dravic on March 01, 2011, 06:01:47 pm
Change the Destiny - vote NO! for removing admins today! Go go go!

I have already voted NO! - How about you?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: nuffen on March 01, 2011, 06:02:38 pm
Change the Destiny - vote NO! for removing admins today! Go go go!

I have already voted NO! - How about you?

I have!
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Babelfish on March 01, 2011, 06:21:03 pm
Lillith: 1
Haters: 0

xD
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Tai Feng on March 01, 2011, 06:23:05 pm
You did'nt stand still, as i described in my post. :)

You said I went to hay and went near ladder which was true (of course, since I was jumping too to get to that floor, and then wanted to destroy the ladder.

There was no intent, so there was no intentional teamhurting. Therefore discussion is closed as far as I'm concerned. If you want to kick/ban people for unintentional teamhearting be my guest, the server will drop to 10 players.

Quote from: jspook
What is so hard to understand about the rules?
Are most of the offenders illiterate?  or just reading comprehension challenged?
as in this last little spat with tai feng and lilith.  the rules are clear.  No intentional team damage.  and yet all of these people always skip over the part where they screwed over someone else on their own team and point to some illogical argument that what they were doing happened to be the single most important thing on the map.
How narcissitic can you get?

Seems like you're the illiterate one. I got kicked for *unintentional* teamhurting. Which isn't in the rules, for obvious reasons.
Illogical argument? That would be yours (appeal to altruism is logical fallacy, as altruism is no indication of how beneficial something is).

In short, just like Lilith, you show bad judgment, lack of logic, and should therefore refrain from making evaluation statement or, heaves forbid, being admin.


And just to clarify this a bit more - in a team, there are two kinds of players: those who strive to do the best they can so their team wins, and those who couldn't care less. What you're saying is that it doesn't matter if some peasant is notifying enemy of my xbow lair, it doesn't matter if the number of my kills is because of that reduced to zero perhaps. It doesn't matter if, hypothetically speaking, team loses because of that.
All that matters is altruism.

To hell with altruism. Altruism is of the devil.

And by not being altruistic I don't break any rules since it doesn't say anywhere I have to be altruist. I play in order to get my team to win. As long as I don't break any rules, I find it unacceptable that some Team America admin is hanging on my neck and kicking/banning me for imaginary violations. I am a tactical player. I don't care about any fantasy codes of honor. I will follow the rules and that's exactly it. Admins should be in no position to ban/kick people for violations of some silly codes of honor, otherwise we will soon have admins who will kick archers who run away and stuff like these.



Thank you very much and have a nice day.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Magikarp on March 01, 2011, 06:24:31 pm
Lilith escapes by 1 vote, lawl. I voted no to his nomination though.

Wookie deserved to get stripped of powers, it's a miracle that so many people still voted no. Yet justice has prevailed.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: okiN on March 01, 2011, 06:28:35 pm
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: jspook on March 01, 2011, 06:29:56 pm
Are you actually going to sit there and tell me that destroying a ladder while your team mates were on it was not intentional?  thus causing intentional team damage?

Your biggest failing is that you think the actions you were taking are correct.  when, in fact, team wounding everyone on that ladder probably caused you to LOSE the round.  your argument about altruism is completely fail, and you show a complete lack of judgement by causing intentional harm to your own team.

Quote
I will follow the rules and that's exactly it.

you didnt follow the rules.  thats the entire point.  own up to it.  its the entire reason you were punished
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: ManOfWar on March 01, 2011, 06:30:37 pm
Guys dos wooki not pay for most of Crpg, will he continue to do this?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Bobthehero on March 01, 2011, 06:33:27 pm
Lilith escapes by 1 vote, lawl. I voted no to his nomination though.

Wookie deserved to get stripped of powers, it's a miracle that so many people still voted no. Yet justice has prevailed.

actually, no, as Lilith pointed out you need 51% vote, not 1 more.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Vicious666 on March 01, 2011, 06:36:27 pm
bye bye wooki :D :lol:
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Banok on March 01, 2011, 06:49:50 pm
hes not going anywhere, hes not banned.

balton on the other hand looks banned, AND THERE WAS MUCH REJOICING.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Alex_C on March 01, 2011, 06:50:28 pm
bye bye wooki :D :lol:

Yeah, funny stuff. Say, are you still banned?
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Bobthehero on March 01, 2011, 06:50:45 pm
balton on the other hand looks banned, AND THERE WAS MUCH REJOICING

Just muted, for shame :(
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Tai Feng on March 01, 2011, 07:02:15 pm
Are you actually going to sit there and tell me that destroying a ladder while your team mates were on it was not intentional?  thus causing intentional team damage?

Be my guest, just continue rambling ignorantly.
I was destroying my own ladder waiting until teammates get off of it so I can finally completely destroy it - nothing against the rules and it's what everyone does. If I wanted I could've just catapulted everyone (two people only) off it but I don't do these things.

Now go on with your preaching but I'll excuse myself and retire to my chambers, as I'm not religious and therefore not interested in your morality sermons. I did not break any rules, that's a fact. Unlike you, Lilith at least knows what was going on, except that he misjudged the case, since without intent there is no intentional teamhurting.

Case closed.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: [ptx] on March 01, 2011, 07:04:20 pm
Just muted, for shame :(
No, actually b&.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Bobthehero on March 01, 2011, 07:11:22 pm
well then there was MUCH rejoicing
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Poetrydog on March 01, 2011, 07:26:28 pm
I voted Yes for Wookie and no for Lillith. Don't really see why I should explain. Did it all earlier.
Also a no for PTX. Don't even see how he got to the vote part. The whole nomination thread seems confused and totally troll work.
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: RagnarLodbroke on March 01, 2011, 07:31:11 pm
And yet you had to provide the 20th nomination for me, Ragnar. Tsk, tsk, people...

i lied on the admin abuse board :D Think i removed it aswell, but i still consider u a little mean :D not in a bad way tho...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Sean_Drew on March 01, 2011, 07:37:16 pm
actually, no, as Lilith pointed out you need 51% vote, not 1 more.

51 % or more must vote to REMOVE the Admin .... and that was not the case .... so lilith/nuffen is and will be Admin ...

So i think ..... correct me if i´m wrong ...

Maybe i misunderstood , what you say , and we both mean the same ...

Lilith won :-) Even if it was a very close run ...
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Bobthehero on March 01, 2011, 08:18:01 pm
I meant it as lilith wasnt saved by 1 vote or else it would have been 50/50 and it would have been fine
Title: Re: Polls on Wooki, Lilith/Nuffen AND [ptx] - DISCUSSION
Post by: Sean_Drew on March 01, 2011, 08:24:45 pm
Ah .... ok ...

I thought the no could mean that Lilith hasn´t won . cause he has not 51% of the votes ....

So we mean the same .... ok ... :-)

It means no , not by 1 vote .... ok ..... understood :-)