Author Topic: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle (Read 4125 times)

Hellsing · « **on:** April 12, 2015, 02:07:14 am »

Hey there c-RPG Community

Thank you for your attention. This post is kinda important to the upcoming changes on the battlefield and it's up to you to take part in it

I'm no one you might recognize right away, or maybe you do in certain way.
Let me introduce myself, I'm Spanky_Ham also known as IP_Hellsing. Having a good time here since 2010/2011 and since some time as well as mapper.
I started mapping due to defend the village release sticking to the rules we had on making maps these days like making them not flying and stuff like that, I'm still sticking to.

So let's get serious.
I need your help, and this will be a real big thing..
I want to change the whole map cycle on every official server to a whole new thing.
This is a call to YOU the reader in front of your desktop

Help us improve the feeling on the battlefield.

Take part in this thread and start thinking about a completely new rotation, fixes on single maps, improvements, removals, shuffling the maps, whatever comes up to your mind could be kinda interesting and help a lot to make cRPG fun on other gamemodes than DTV again.
You guys complained so much about a bad representation and lack of care for the mod, so here is the first step to get you guys back to game and ready for some battles/sieges again with the next update.

This is your chance to actually take part in evolving cRPG to it's next level, so please please please help me with it.
I'm always very active on Scene Editing, but I kinda never play on NA_ Servers so I don't know what NA Players like to play on, or neither I know EU_1 or EU_2 so give me some constructive map feedback.

So here is my Task - Chart for now:
My first step is gathering some information about the communities state on the map cycle so I need information about the current mapcycle as well as thoughts about how to improve it.
Step 2 will be thinking about all the gathered information (I guess).
Upcoming with step 3 I will push a wall of text on the forum about my next steps... This is so huge I better do this step by step (I'm kinda scared coz there could be lots of work, it's just up to your decisions and ideas)

Current Cycle:

Thanks to Teeth adding the missing cycles
Also very usefull a list of all native villages/castles brought by Elio click map name far right to get an image of the castle

Battle

(click to show/hide)

Siege

(click to show/hide)

Defend the virgin

(click to show/hide)

Stay objective
Post bugs with a screenshot otherwise I may misunderstand
Describe precisely what is it that you’re thinking about, without vague statements.

Please take this serious, this post is not an April Fool’s joke or something like this

Many thanks

-Hellsing

Hellsing · « **Reply #1 on:** April 12, 2015, 02:09:24 am »

(click to show/hide)

Tuetensuppe · « **Reply #2 on:** April 12, 2015, 07:51:26 am »

If you need a hand with editing\fixing problems etc. = gimme a call

Even if i dont have that much time these days to play more often, its good to see your idea + effort for the community...
Im willed to use the small power and the contacts/relations i got to lend you a hand - you have my support

Cheers

Kalp · « **Reply #3 on:** April 12, 2015, 08:04:45 am »

Quote from: Spanky_Ham on April 12, 2015, 02:07:14 am

so give me some constructive map feedback.

As I understand Strategus maps are not a part of an agreement, right ?

Teeth · « **Reply #4 on:** April 12, 2015, 11:19:41 am »

I still got access to the map manager's Dropbox so I took the freedom to put the map lists into your post. Sorry, I just really wanted to abuse my power in this subforum. These files were updated the 23rd of February which was the last patch day so I assume they are up to date. I was too lazy to remove the add_map things from the lists. I also added one map to your EU 7 list, namely the first one on the list that people usually overlook as it is separated with an enter from the rest. Any line with a # in it means that line gets ignored, so especially in the NA Siege list there are lots of maps marked like that, you may wish to remove those from the list entirely.

Keep in mind that this sub-forum is dead, even more so now than before. Make sure to make a General Discussion thread linking to here as well. Also, look over the entire forum for people whining about maps and link them the thread. Even then though, for all the whine about maps, there are usually very little people able or willing to give concrete pointers on what to improve. What I have learnt from my run as a scene manager is that there is no "community opinion" and that everybody disagrees on everything and people are always gonna whine. So I wish you the best of luck

I can assist if necessary so feel free to forum PM me if you need anything.

Viriathus · « **Reply #5 on:** April 12, 2015, 12:15:09 pm »

Completely agree on changing the rotation, there are way too many unwanted maps. If i was a dictator i would banish conquest too, i hate that game mode, it appears to make everyone play like a random, mindless bots.

EDIT: also, i should point out that the premiss of this mod is to role play historicaly accurate medvieval/renaissance era characters, so all maps shoudl look realistic, we have plenty of maps that are just absurd, to me thats a really big turn down.

Daunt_Flockula · « **Reply #6 on:** April 12, 2015, 12:19:35 pm »

But why is removing conquest not an option? I am telling you, we don't have lasting populations on siege anymore. We barely get 30 and a painful conquest only serves to drive people away. It might be the opposite in the past, where a conquest would attract more people. Yet it is not the case anymore. People run away from it.

My suggestion is to remove it altogether or at least leave out most conquest maps, since only a few of them are good enough to provide any enjoyment.

Hellsing · « **Reply #7 on:** April 12, 2015, 12:48:22 pm »

Quote from: Tuetensuppe on April 12, 2015, 07:51:26 am

Sure thing, but this will need some time though.. I will first have to get some overview (special thanks to Teeth completing the map list, I realy looked forward someone will do this

also the deactivated files,very very usefull), this Thread is supposed to reach those who realy care about cRPG maps.

Using this suppthread which is supposed for this annoucement fits perfect. Maybe when we want to discuss single ideas in ditail we can make new topics for them using scene editing where it perfectly fits and nobody harms

it is not well known but known by the most interested players who are still willing to seriously improve some things here.. that is enough for me

Our suggestion corner looks like some spamboard to me and I guess it would get overflood like all the other topics around - which would give me much less overview and maybe I miss important stuff.. Maybe I ask an admin some weeks later to post an real announcement refering to this already good running topic here.

Quote from: Kalp on April 12, 2015, 08:04:45 am

As I understand Strategus maps are not a part of an agreement, right ?

I note this but I will come back to this after the normal server who are running 24/7 nearly empty while strategus more or less ever had it's own folk - neither if I'm allowed takeing changes on there or what's good there :/ if there a bugs or exploits on maps maybe it's possible but unless it's not gamebreaking I wouldn't touch it for now

But I wont forget you and I guess you won't neither - let us first handle the "normal server" which is already more than enough work for now though even with help from the scene editor community - the first part is the hardest for me to be honest (waiting for constructive ideas)

So we faster we follow my little taskchart the faster we're free for new things

Err and did I mention before that if there a glitches, exploits and so on in strat they will surely get their attention when you hit me with it?

Quote from: Viriathus on April 12, 2015, 12:15:09 pm

I would banish conquest too, i rather like the gamemode, it appears to make everyone play like random mindless bots.

Ah okay my friend, I think I understand your point here.. Maybe think more openly my idea was like taking old castles or villages from
http://eelio.pagesperso-orange.fr old M&B and make them to some kind of new conquest style like you have to cap some parts of it but instead of spawning inside of the castle than it dosn't realy give you much bonus or maybe just some feet more in front of the walls, shorter cap time like old siege and so on.
Don't just blame a gamemode, think open

Also I agree with you that I don't like stuff like flying castles.

Quote from: Daunt_Flockula on April 12, 2015, 12:19:35 pm

It might be the opposite in the past, where a conquest would attract more people. Yet it is not the case anymore. People run away from it.

My suggestion is you should leave out most conquest maps, since only a few of them are good enough to provide any enjoyment.

Totally agree. Maybe conquest should be again a admin set thing (being possible but not in usual rotation..). Also a possibility.

I hope I could answer your guys questions,
-Hellsing

Falka · « **Reply #8 on:** April 12, 2015, 01:05:24 pm »

Quote from: Daunt_Flockula on April 12, 2015, 12:19:35 pm

We barely get 30 and a painful conquest only serves to drive people away. It might be the opposite in the past, where a conquest would attract more people. Yet it is not the case anymore. People run away from it.

Nah, not true. Recently eu2 is empty almost all the time, no matter if it's siege or conquest, but conquest still can be quite funny. Just not all the maps suit current population. Especially map with an island in the name, it's waaaay too big.

Oh, what would help more than anything else. Bring back map polls, why we can not decide if want to play the map or not.

Quote from: Spanky_Ham on April 12, 2015, 12:48:22 pm

NOt sure what you sugget here, but I think that ppl like conquest mostly because no other gamemode provides so much fight with so little waiting/running. Less running, less waiting, more fighting, this should be a motto of conquest

Don't change it

Hellsing · « **Reply #9 on:** April 12, 2015, 01:19:46 pm »

Quote from: Falka on April 12, 2015, 01:05:24 pm

Nah, not true. Recently eu2 is empty almost all the time, no matter if it's siege or conquest, but conquest still can be quite funny. Just not all the maps suit current population.

That is nothing new to me, the question is how to get them back ;)

Especially map with an island in the name, it's waaaay too big.

Here we go, maps are to big? Yeah kinda though about that

Oh, what would help more than anything else. Bring back map polls, why we can not decide if want to play the map or not.

I still belive the follwing quote of mine:
Quote from: Spanky_Ham on April 12, 2015, 12:18:16 am
This is not possible because all offical server got access to the same maps directory and the gamemode is bound to the map file.
So it is possible to start dtv, strat and so on.
Ergo: No warband mapvote

NOt sure what you sugget here, but I think that ppl like conquest mostly because no other gamemode provides so much fight with so little waiting/running. Less running, less waiting, more fighting, this should be a motto of conquest Don't change it

Sorry for my broken english well think about old siege with the small old warband castles, give them few more objectives and a more comfort way of spawning like I could just set 3 flags like horse, archery, infantry and could designate the perfect spawns for each unit type. also it's possible to set 3 start attacker spawns, and adding new spawns for each conquered map - but why should I be supposed to stick to that "I put the new attackers spawns around the conquered flag type"? They just reached a objective and haven't set up and brood chamber on it
So I wan't you to free you guys from all you know and think about a total different as well.. Because it's possible and often players asked for old maps, so why shouldn't we take old small and big siege maps and make them all conquest rdy with different conquest on each map, you could still spawn on huge maps inside the deffing castle or just stay all the time spawning outside whatever - so my point is still to make it fast, much battle less respawning

Krex · « **Reply #10 on:** April 12, 2015, 03:45:28 pm »

Quote from: Spanky_Ham on April 12, 2015, 12:18:16 am

This is not possible because all offical server got access to the same maps directory and the gamemode is bound to the map file.
So it is possible to start dtv, strat and so on.
Ergo: No warband mapvote

Yeah, but if you host a server in native or something else, it has access to ALL gamemodes maps too, but you can only poll for the maps that actually are playable in the gamemode (I think you can set which ones are possible in the mission template, not sure tho).

As for map suggestions: Please bring back more of the native maps, also the maps from ENL/WNL like sandiboush or however its spelled might be fun too. Once it comes to siege, you are probably fine when you listen to blockula ;)

I think I still have a copy of VoS(look at the old thread in this section of the forum) that just needs spawnpoints and stuff like ballistas (and maybe some defences for the village and more working gates for the city, but thats not too much) to be playable, PM me if interessted.

Hellsing · « **Reply #11 on:** April 12, 2015, 06:13:14 pm »

Quote from: Krex on April 12, 2015, 03:45:28 pm

Yeah, but if you host a server in native or something else, it has access to ALL gamemodes maps too, but you can only poll for the maps that actually are playable in the gamemode (I think you can set which ones are possible in the mission template, not sure tho).
I'm neither sure with that.

Only think I sureley know is that normal warband mapchange poll is nothing I can work on neither have power in that area. And it won't come in coz you could set on deathmatch an play strat and so on which would lead into a huge mess with the systems..
This is something for the version after this and is something where the dev coder has to think about if it's possible and usefull at the current state of crpg (I guess this will take to much time to hardcode instead of fixing the shit out of the mod) so don't bother everywhere with your mapp(tr)oll

As for map suggestions: Please bring back more of the native maps, also the maps from ENL/WNL like sandiboush or however its spelled might be fun too. Once it comes to siege, you are probably fine when you listen to blockula ;)

ENL/WNL? what are you talking about? Once it comes to siege? I guess your suggesting several battlemaps here what I don't understand nor can work with at all? You could do this more detailed I'm sure with that.. Also there is no order like battle first or siege first. everythink has to be done to get changes in. otherwise I will not publish it coz my goal is not achieved. so don't hesitate to throw in what ever you want.

I think I still have a copy of VoS(look at the old thread in this section of the forum) that just needs spawnpoints and stuff like ballistas (and maybe some defences for the village and more working gates for the city, but thats not too much) to be playable, PM me if interessted.
And what is VoS now? Surely I'm interested, but with this pices I can't work at all so it would be nice if you could go more in detail instead of just a short stop here, answer when you got enough time to make a realy helping post, would be awesome.. I guess your ideas are in the right direction but I dont have an idea what you want from me

Fips · « **Reply #12 on:** April 12, 2015, 06:29:52 pm »

Just present me whatever choices you guys made (A little poll about it would be nice so i don't just rely on opinions of a few) and i'll implement them. I'm sorry that i moved on, but that's all i'm gonna do about this mod^^
Okay, if you want something on my maps changed i'll do that, but that's about it.

Oh, and make it on steam or irc, i am checking this forum maybe twice a week or so for some M:BG updates only.

Krex · « **Reply #13 on:** April 12, 2015, 06:55:42 pm »

Quote from: Spanky_Ham on April 12, 2015, 06:13:14 pm

1)WNL/ENL maps are all in this adminmod for native, sorry, couldnt find another download of all the maps. They should be free to use since they are used by natives competive scene(WNL= Warband Native League, ENL= European Native League).
2) As I said, look at the post in this forum:http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/krex-mapping-shack-currently-working-on/ The OP has pretty much all the info you could need, PM for download.

Hellsing · « **Reply #14 on:** April 12, 2015, 08:00:16 pm »

Quote from: Fips on April 12, 2015, 06:29:52 pm

Just present me whatever choices you guys made (A little poll about it would be nice so i don't just rely on opinions of a few) and i'll implement them.
No this time I decide completly what I want to do with the community and without you the inactive "coordinator"
I'm sorry that i moved on, but that's all i'm gonna do about this mod^^
So you should give this job away.
Okay, if you want something on my maps changed i'll do that, but that's about it.
I already changed your maps months ago, you never uploaded the hotfixes for current rotation.
Oh, and make it on steam or irc, i am checking this forum maybe twice a week or so for some M:BG updates only.
Np, I won't bother you.

Actually I wont hit you with any stuff related to cRPG again Fips, your not reliable to your word.
Even when you say you would do something the next days/weeks/months, you don't.
It's like Tuetensuppe posting on every topic were I made improvments with uthyr to DTV maps months ago, that he would do something to help me get the actually mapping stuff done, but when I actually have something up nobody has time, so just again all I ask about is what is it the active cRPG community want's on maps not about the old not active guys promessing some never happening promisses.
Already your starting about democracy is making me upset, cause it shows that you haven't read my post at all so go back to final fantasy.

Quote from: Krex on April 12, 2015, 06:55:42 pm

1)WNL/ENL maps are all in this adminmod for native,
All right I will download the mod and see through it some time.

2) http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/krex-mapping-shack-currently-working-on/
It's a nice huge conquest map for 100+ players I think we should aim on smaler targets right now but I will note it Thanks for the effort

responsible person:	summary:	notes:
Teeth	• added the complete server lists • shouldn’t use dead sub-forums • attention on general chatting floor • Native Forest Hideout • Mustikki's Bums of Swadia • Forest2	nice work incloud more spam 3 battlemap entries
Viriathus:	• remove conquest	players get lazy on it
Daunt_Flockula	• people run away from conquest • leave out most conquest maps	agreed new idea make it different
Falka	• EU_2 always empty • Less running • less waiting • more fighting	not conquest only Good point
Tuetensuppe	• want’s to help me again..
Krex[/url]	• http://forums.taleworlds.com/index.php/topic,275440.0.html • http://forum.melee.org/scene-editing/krex-mapping-shack-currently-working-on/	Shall download mod for maps Huge conquest map

Author Topic: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle (Read 4125 times)

Hellsing

Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Hellsing

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Tuetensuppe

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Kalp

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Teeth

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Viriathus

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Daunt_Flockula

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Hellsing

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Falka

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Hellsing

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Krex

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Hellsing

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Fips

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Krex

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle

Hellsing

Re: Announcement: Community input - Take part evolving c-RPG: Mapcycle