About "Cleaver"

[Tibe]

I grinned hard when I broke some dudes(relatively good) shield with the cleaver. And it only took few swings. I mean good god, its so puny. It does immense damage, is fast, cheap, 0 sloth and on top of that breaks shields as easly as axes. Start looming those cleavers lads. I somehow knew this day would come that they would buff it.

And why u so mad about it? Its rarely used and its only viable if the opponent cant kick for shit and you are using a shield. Now I know it must be hard not having Youtube there in Turkey, but do try to relax. I quess its kinda OP now, but not gamebreakingly much. Atleast it doesnt have a stab.

[PsychoTwins]

-Im not raging , nor crying i am just stating that it is stupid to give cleaver that stat.
-Im not suggesting anything so it is not a suggestion topic.
If you think 30c for that cleaver is too much,reduce it instead of adding more features to it .
Like i said, this isn't a mmorpg game,fucking up realism over gameplay is just a terrible idea.
If you think 30c for that cleaver is too much,reduce it instead of adding more features to it .
-I've been playing this since 2011,never seen this bad item balance just stating it , with all your bullshit, you murrican kiddos are the ones who QQ in this thread.


But meh...keep turning this game into nobrain murrican arcade shit so your people can enjoy aswell ofc.

It's like I don't even have to try for you to make an ass of yourself. You happen to know George Bush? 

[dynamike]

My point was that realism was lost long ago since it's already 30 cut, out-damaging 1hander swords used by soldiers. I thought I was making it obvious enough... If you can suggest stats where it's not completely useless compared to adjacent weapons, go right ahead.

-Knife has similar, but superior stats in every area outside of 2 cut
It's balanced with the knife in mind, but I was also thinking how it would get some use when compared to the hand axe / short falchion, too.

Sorry San, but I think adding unrealistic traits (= not being able to decipher item advantages from its design) to items just so their stats match the ones of other items goes a bit too far.

Yes, your title is "Item Balancer", but not all items necessarily have to be 100% balanced against each other, 99% does the job as well. Some items could just be picked based on personal preference over others or chosen for roleplay purposes, even if they are falling behind a tad compared to others.

IMO certain stats being off by a point or two are preferential over unrealistic traits.

[HarunYahya]

0 sloth

Made my day.
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Anyway,im not mad because the item is too strong or too powerful or someshit. It is just ridiculously retarded for a simple butcher's cleaver to have bonus against a shield. This stupidity is too sad im not even mad it just made me sad...
Wanna have it ? Keep it i don't give a fuck but this is not the first unrealistic upgrade this dev team have done and slowly this game is turning into an arcade hack'n slash game instead of realistic medieval rpg. This is the part where im mad .I loved cRPG because it was the most realistic medieval combat game and i'll be even more mad than now if some Murricans take that away from me.

[dreadnok]

Made my day.
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Anyway,im not mad because the item is too strong or too powerful or someshit. It is just ridiculously retarded for a simple butcher's cleaver to have bonus against a shield. This stupidity is too sad im not even mad it just made me sad...
Wanna have it ? Keep it i don't give a fuck but this is not the first unrealistic upgrade this dev team have done and slowly this game is turning into an arcade hack'n slash game instead of realistic medieval rpg. This is the part where im mad .I loved cRPG because it was the most realistic medieval combat game and i'll be even more mad than now if some Murricans take that away from me.

Your fucking nuts dude, this game is anti realism from day one. Guys in full plate jumping in spinning and stabbing backwards. Throwing weapons hitting from 400 yards away. Shields using agility instead of strength. Christ, half the way 2h sides wings land would break your fucking wrists! Peasants kicking people in full plate. Kicking people carrying shields and stunnig them. Game is from turkey so I guess its par for the corpse. The best was blocking while kicking while standing on one leg

[PsychoTwins]

Let me explain how San "ruined" this game for you single-handedly.

1)San and/or others propose a change to the lower tier weapons, like cleaver and how they should be changed.

2)The WHOLE TEAM votes on if changes should be put in or not.

3)???

4)Rage that it is all Sans fault.

Now, we can either discuss this with sanity like dynamike did, or we can QQ/rage and turn this into a EU vs NA.

If you want to take QQ/rage route ill just say this,
Get the fuck out. This isn't YOUR game and it wasn't suited to YOUR needs.

With sanity,
Im sure some changes could be made but it doesnt seem like a lot of people care about the cleaver buff. It seems more are happy it will actually be used than how it may be too OP for low tier weps.


Also, Dread, agreed. This is a game not a simulator. Sure realism is nice in some points, but that is for the devs to decide not you, HarunYahya.

[Grumbs]

Item balancers are doing a fine job, better than its been in last couple years.
I don't really mind the change to the cleaver, though I guess it is quite unrealistic. Same as the tiny hammer having knockdown, 1 handers outstabbing poles, armour not stopping any projectiles, all the cav mechanics, the simple shooting mechanics, even firing accurately while riding a horse

I know another unrealistic thing might grate a bit, but its pretty minor to me. In terms of balance I don't think its OP. Any axe is better at destroying a shield and any axe is better at killing players without a shield. Its fun but not particularly good imo

[San]

I respect that Dynamike, just see things differently is all.

I don't think 100% can be achieved and don't really want it to, since I believe one can't really quantify such a thing so accurately due to metagame changes.

I dislike redundancy above all else. If there's a way for an item to offer some sort of appeal for tradeoffs in other areas, that makes sense to me. If I can't think of anything, I typically just leave it as is (ex. black and white shield compared to the brown kite shield).


I see "Bonus against shield" as a weapon whose mass is centered at the end of the blade instead of a more equal distribution. This can also be seen for how multiple throwing weapons have "bonus against shield" due to the brunt of the force centering on that tiny point behind the weight of the throw/weapon itself. Also, how is giving "bonus against shield" to cleaver so much more unrealistic than the hatchet/hand axe having "bonus against shield"? Cleaver is nearly the same weight, but it's also shorter. When I thought about that, it didn't seem like much of a stretch. What do you define as "bonus against shield" to have such a strong reaction compared to other decisions that are much more unrealistic anyways? What I'm getting at is that if you start to overthink on every inconsistency that is in the least bit unrealistic, you'll just run your mind in circles.

[Jona]

Your fucking nuts dude, this game is anti realism from day one. Guys in full plate jumping in spinning and stabbing backwards. Throwing weapons hitting from 400 yards away. Shields using agility instead of strength. Christ, half the way 2h sides wings land would break your fucking wrists! Peasants kicking people in full plate. Kicking people carrying shields and stunnig them. Game is from turkey so I guess its par for the corpse. The best was blocking while kicking while standing on one leg

The dread-speak gets better and better. 

Also, I will admit that I am sad to see yet another weapon get bonus against shield since nowadays it seems like any axe can kill a shield in 2-3 hits, regardless of the quality of the shield or the user's shield skill. I get that shields are 'disposable' and that it is 'better the shield than me' but it is simply annoying how shields block worse than manual blocks, are more often to get crush-throughed, and are seemingly made of balsa wood. It is great that using a shield doesn't equate to wearing an extra set of plate armor anymore, but they simply crumple like paper when facing any kind of bonus against shield weapon. And now there is a weapon that can spam a shielder until it breaks without letting them get single swing in, most likely. I take solace in the fact that this weapon is probably doomed to never be widely-used due to its short reach and the fact that it can't block. However, Swedish Chef alone deserves this buff for the reasons Phew mentioned... and he will probably be the only one who gets anything out of it.

[dynamike]

I see "Bonus against shield" as a weapon whose mass is centered at the end of the blade instead of a more equal distribution. This can also be seen for how multiple throwing weapons have "bonus against shield" due to the brunt of the force centering on that tiny point behind the weight of the throw/weapon itself. Also, how is giving "bonus against shield" to cleaver so much more unrealistic than the hatchet/hand axe having "bonus against shield"? Cleaver is nearly the same weight, but it's also shorter. When I thought about that, it didn't seem like much of a stretch. What do you define as "bonus against shield" to have such a strong reaction compared to other decisions that are much more unrealistic anyways? What I'm getting at is that if you start to overthink on every inconsistency that is in the least bit unrealistic, you'll just run your mind in circles.

Well, an axe is made to split things. This is achieved by
- focusing most of its weight at the outermost point of the weapon/tool for leverage as you already said
- having a relatively short cutting edge (unlike the cleaver) to focus the force
- having an almost triangular shape outward from the cutting edge (unlike the cleaver) in order for it not to get stuck in the things its supposed to split
- being generally wielded by manly men in checkered flannel shirts as opposed to aprons

Please consider this educational video as reference:

(click to show/hide)

I don't feel strongly either way, I just don't think a cleaver would be good at chopping wood and therefore "bonus against shields" seems unrealistic.

[Thryn]

Nice cleaver buff. It seems the only people upset are HarunYahya shielders whose shields will break faster. It's easy to fight these things, and seeing different weapons spices up the battlefield.

About realism: I know that you're a larper Harun, and you're absolutely correct about realism>balance, because games should simulate real life. We should forget about fun gameplay.

(click to show/hide)

Fighting a cleaver? Block.

(click to show/hide)

You can cut up Turkey with a cleaver.

(click to show/hide)

#gottem

[dreadnok]

The dread-speak gets better and better. 

Also, I will admit that I am sad to see yet another weapon get bonus against shield since nowadays it seems like any axe can kill a shield in 2-3 hits, regardless of the quality of the shield or the user's shield skill. I get that shields are 'disposable' and that it is 'better the shield than me' but it is simply annoying how shields block worse than manual blocks, are more often to get crush-throughed, and are seemingly made of balsa wood. It is great that using a shield doesn't equate to wearing an extra set of plate armor anymore, but they simply crumple like paper when facing any kind of bonus against shield weapon. And now there is a weapon that can spam a shielder until it breaks without letting them get single swing in, most likely. I take solace in the fact that this weapon is probably doomed to never be widely-used due to its short reach and the fact that it can't block. However, Swedish Chef alone deserves this buff for the reasons Phew mentioned... and he will probably be the only one who gets anything out of it.

Haha its this jerk off phone jona, I was gonna fix it but it sounded cooler. I also disagree about the hammer knockdown, I don't see anyone taking a hammer to the dome and NOT falling!

[CrazyCracka420]

Not all cleavers are built equally

[Phew]

"Par for the corpse" is the best Dread-ism yet, intentional or not. I'm going to start using it in normal conversation and see how people react. It kind of implies "Golf idioms are for pussies, I use bloodsport idioms".

[CrazyCracka420]

"Par for the corpse" is the best Dread-ism yet, intentional or not. I'm going to start using it in normal conversation and see how people react. It kind of implies "Golf idioms are for pussies, I use bloodsport idioms".

You don't say?

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