As a shielder, when I fight two skilled melee I still have a very far from ridiculous chance of winning. As a shielder, my chances of winning against two skilled archers are less than 0.5%
Now if you don't see the problem here, I don't think we can progress in this discussion.
I don't know whether it would be enough or not as that simply does not happen in the general case. What happens is that I chase an archer (as a shielder, so please make it clear whether this is "extremely dumb" or not, I remember some archers argued shielded melee had to hide from range too), so I run. Then I block an arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running. Then I release my block so I run faster. Then I see the archer moving sideways while nocking an arrow, so I block again. Then I block an other arrow and keep on running.
Then I catch the archer, now two things can happen :
Case 1 : he takes a melee weapon and we start fighting. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again. I attack first, he blocks then attacks. I block and I do some feints to get my hit in. He blocks an attacks normally again. I block that and do some more complicated feints or hold and that's exactly the moment he decides to run away. I chase him again in a similar way until I catch him again.
At some point he misses a few blocks and I kill him.
Case 2 :
The archer nocks an arrow, and draws his bow into my shield. At that moment I expect (well I don't even count on it anymore tbh) the bump to happen that will stop his draw. If I release my block, I'm dead the instant I do it. The archer then proceeds to glide around me with his bow drawn into my body, taking advantage of his peasant clothes that somehow reduce his weight to a few kilograms without affecting his leg muscles. This whole movement is aimed at trying to go around my shield and shotgun me. Even though most archers can't do this properly, it still is 100% unsafe to stop blocking, and only stops being so after the shot is released or in the unlikely event of it being interrupted. It's also notable that while I block it's totally possible for a good agi archer to start running away again.
So if this is what you call an autokill, I would gladly trade it for a not-so-probablekill that hopefully wouldn't take more than 1 minute.
Let's compare that to what happens when I have to kill a 2h.
We both go towards each other because we have no way of harming each other from far away. Let's assume he's the worst 2h ever so when we are more or less at 2m range he starts thrust feinting while going forward and backward back and forth. At some point he releases an attack and I block, when I try to attack back he backpedals or runs away from my reach so I have to block another attack. But usually now I'm so close he can't really get away without putting himself in danger. We fight each other more or less equally then there's a winner about 10 seconds later (in battle of course, people don't fight the same way in duel).
My chances clearly aren't as good as with the archer, but I didn't had to chase him for a century, and that is more important in battle than actually killing people. While chasing an archer I'm a sitting duck for cav, other ranged or even fast infantry, resulting in the chase actually being the worst choice for survival.
And before you try to divert the debate towards irrelevant subjects, this is my experience as a 15/21 shielder/lance cav, chasing archers with a KAS, an elite cav shield, heraldic mail, mail mittens, leather boots and a solak helmet (and nothing else). I changed my build and equipement around mid-March.
No, but having reasonable chances against 2 archers would be... expected for the melee class that is supposed to be an anti-ranged force.
Poll