Poll

Which city do you want to live in?

Sargoth
17 (13.4%)
Tihr
7 (5.5%)
Veluca
9 (7.1%)
Suno
4 (3.1%)
Jelkala
6 (4.7%)
Praven
15 (11.8%)
Uxkhal
3 (2.4%)
Reyvadin
11 (8.7%)
Khudan
4 (3.1%)
Tulga
1 (0.8%)
Curaw
7 (5.5%)
Wercheg
1 (0.8%)
Rivacheg
2 (1.6%)
Halmar
2 (1.6%)
Yalen
5 (3.9%)
Dhirim
13 (10.2%)
Ichamur
2 (1.6%)
Narra
11 (8.7%)
Shariz
4 (3.1%)
Durquba
1 (0.8%)
Ahmerrad
1 (0.8%)
Bariyye
1 (0.8%)

Total Members Voted: 126

Author Topic: Strategus City Improvement Project  (Read 40593 times)

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Offline Canary

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #225 on: April 19, 2013, 11:52:01 am »
+3
I've edited the map and moved that offending flag in Ichamur beyond the invisible walls into the city proper.

scn_town_17_walls.sco on mediafire


...and it only took someone four months!

Patch is required to implement map changes, unfortunately, so there's no telling when it'll truly get fixed.

In the meantime, are any other city maps still suffering from horribly crippling bugs like this? I may as well take a look at them, if no one else is available.

Offline DUKE DICKBUTT

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #226 on: April 19, 2013, 11:54:19 am »
0
I've edited the map and moved that offending flag in Ichamur beyond the invisible walls into the city proper.

http://www.mediafire.com/?odsvkampq4xmswh


...and it only took someone four months!

Patch is required to implement map fixes, unfortunately, so there's no telling when it'll truly get fixed.

In the meantime, are any other city maps still suffering from horribly crippling bugs like this? I may as well take a look at them, if no one else is available.

There was a village we fought in a little while back where the attacker flags were in an unreachable area.  I think it was in the steppe but I forgot exactly which battle.

Offline Malaclypse

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #227 on: April 19, 2013, 11:56:55 am »
0
There was a village we fought in a little while back where the attacker flags were in an unreachable area.  I think it was in the steppe but I forgot exactly which battle.
'

I know for a fact there's a desert one, I'll try to figure out which. Rohy BADPLAYER attacked it one time when we had like, a really small roster, but we were able to hold out and kill droves of defenders due to the fact that they literally could not cap our flags.

Edit: Dhibbain. Sauce was signed up on attackers, we might've won if he was there, lol.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2013, 12:01:02 pm by Malaclypse »
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Offline Canary

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #228 on: April 19, 2013, 12:42:54 pm »
+1
Might as well post issues in one place, and since this thread is specifically for improving cities (towns), I reckon we ought to send our general map issues here:

http://forum.meleegaming.com/scene-editing/strategus-map-feedback/

Offline Keshian

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #229 on: June 28, 2013, 05:02:35 pm »
-1
Dhirim - the invisible walls were poorly drawn so that you can ladder up over one arch along the path to the inner keep but not the second one as attackers, yet defenders cans till ladder up to the arch to shoot.  It creates a series of near unbreakable chokepoints since there are invisible walls all along both sides of a narrow path through the city.  The invisible wall over the arches need to be removed - the sides are enough.

While we are at it the invisible walls in attackers spawns are in front of the siege shields instead of behind them.  Also, the inner keep defense was poorly designed with multiple rooms with one doorway making it next to impossible to do anything once attackers get inside as along as you have shields blocking the doorway.  A partial fix for that is to have ladder access above, instead of an unbreakable wooden archer's nest.
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Offline Artyem

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #230 on: June 29, 2013, 07:17:54 am »
+1
oh my god please fix Dhirim
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Offline Penguin

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #231 on: June 29, 2013, 11:48:37 am »
-1
Dhirim - the invisible walls were poorly drawn so that you can ladder up over one arch along the path to the inner keep but not the second one as attackers, yet defenders cans till ladder up to the arch to shoot.  It creates a series of near unbreakable chokepoints since there are invisible walls all along both sides of a narrow path through the city.  The invisible wall over the arches need to be removed - the sides are enough.

 Also, the inner keep defense was poorly designed with multiple rooms with one doorway making it next to impossible to do anything once attackers get inside as along as you have shields blocking the doorway.  A partial fix for that is to have ladder access above, instead of an unbreakable wooden archer's nest.
These aren't even valid complaints. It would only weaken Dhirrims defense and make it easier on attackers. The entire point of a castle is to make it difficult to take.  More valid problems are the walls of Samarra displaying that they are broken completely but not having the ability to walk through them.
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Offline Malaclypse

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #232 on: June 29, 2013, 04:58:24 pm »
+1
Ichamur and Dhibbain edits still aren't even added, RIP.
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Offline Artyem

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #233 on: June 30, 2013, 09:13:30 am »
0
The invisible walls and the inner keep makes taking this city (Dhirim) damn near impossible.

(click to show/hide)

As seen in the above picture, the walls make it so that attackers can't ladder up pretty much anywhere and make any form of flanking basically inconceivable.  In the end, this leaves the defenders with a small unbreakable wooden door that leads to a room with a staircase that leads to another room.  Not only do they spawn in these rooms, but the tiny door makes it overly difficult to charge in without getting shot / bonked / stabbed / knocked down several times in a row.  Most of the time as an attacker you can't even make it past the shield wall, crossbow bolts go through your shield, causing you to get stunned which results in your impalement and evisceration.

The first arch that leads into a passage only takes a few good charges to get through.  Meanwhile, the second arch is extremely difficult and requires dozens of good charges and I think it's only been broken into once out of the numerous sieges this city has seen.  At the end of all of this is that tiny little inner keep, holding the defenders within it's belly like a protective yet invulnerable stone kangaroo filled with spikes.

I'm going to look at this scene and see if I can make any realistic changes myself that people can agree with.  I can only hope that the changes to these scenes get added soon, because they currently make Strategus a whole lot more irritating than it really needs to be.

EDIT:

I also believe that this city has the smallest total area for fighting, and possibly it has the smallest amount of open ground than any other city.

It's also been said that the Mercenaries have held this city since Strat 1, and the map was made by a Merc.  I for one doubt that the flaws in this impenetrable fortress were premeditated, but I guess that's one possible theory.

P.S.  If this city is ever taken, I believe Canary should be tried for War Crimes.  Which crimes?  9k xp per ticket crimes, that's just wrong.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2013, 09:19:47 am by Artyem »
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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #234 on: June 30, 2013, 10:40:24 am »
-1
Dhirim -

Also, simplest way to fix this map - make the doorway with unbreakable door and no flags inside it.  Very similar to curaw - defenders would actually defend the front walls because its too risky to just fall back to the archways.  The final flags are behind the second archway.  Would make it on par with most of the cities out there - castles are the difficult ones while cities generate more gold usually but are less defensible - which makes sense.  That whole inner keep nonsense doesn't make sense without makig it like an actual keep used in other city maps with some breakable walls instead of just a room leading to other rooms with no other way in and no way to destroy the keep.

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Offline Canary

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #235 on: June 30, 2013, 03:01:28 pm »
+4
I think that most of the towns (many castles, too, but that's a problem for another thread), if not all of them, need to be given a good looking at once again. There's a huge disparity in map difficulty between some of them, but more importantly is something we should figure out first:

Were towns intended to be more difficult to conquer than castles, or less?


From what I've seen while playing, some towns (such as Curaw, Reyvadin), tend to have defenses which are too spread out or convoluted to defend practically. Even Dhirim's walls are poor for defense, considering the locations difficult to reach by defense, and that have no cover, that give attackers access from behind to the gatehouse and left side of the wall.

Many times it is a castle's defenses which stand better than a town's, due to being more compact or having walls that defense can reach more easily and traverse more quickly. Towns tend to devolve into a series of street fights with defenders repetitiously falling back (in-between getting spawn camped momentarily while they reset position), while castles typically stand up with defenders maintaining the walls well after most of them have been broken by catapults.

I'll also look at Dhirim, Arty, and we can compare notes sometime if you like. As much as I like the Dagger Room there, it's obviously a bit too good for defense, but I don't think it should be as easy to fight at for attackers as, say, Reyvadin. We should revisit them all, really, now that many have seen their fair share of fighting.

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #236 on: July 06, 2013, 03:16:53 am »
0
The city of Halmar has a issue with its walls, they are unable to be broken completely.

Edit: Also some of the flags are placed in... odd places. Like hay-bales or at the end of a dead end on a random staircase.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 07:21:42 am by Relit »

Offline Fips

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #237 on: July 12, 2013, 09:13:55 pm »
+2
Rivacheg has flags inside walls.

Offline njames89

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #238 on: December 21, 2017, 03:23:50 pm »
0
Does anyone have access to the original images of the cities still? Seems a lot of them have gone down would be good to have.

Offline Viscount

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Re: Strategus City Improvement Project
« Reply #239 on: December 29, 2017, 06:23:08 am »
+1
Well you can make new images by just finding the scene the cites in.
from the scene editor
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