cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Topic started by: kinngrimm on April 13, 2011, 06:33:45 pm

Title: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on April 13, 2011, 06:33:45 pm
i don't know about you, but as i was new to the game i asked myself what makes a good player and how to become one. Some answers we have collected here and i hope they will help you.


in form of team support


in form of tricks and tactics

lonesome heroes way


in form of k/d
don't take this too seriously, i didn't, still someone who kills stuff, does kill stuff however he managed to do it


in form of battle ethics:

in form how you treat new players
Depending on how we are treating new members of the community they more or less likely will stay.


what do you respect in other players over what has been writen here? What makes a good player? What do you think doesn't belong in this compilation?

Please post and i'll try to modify it if reasonable.

PS: as not native english speaker i don't mind if you correct my english as well ;)
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Nogar on April 13, 2011, 06:46:56 pm
paesant
isnt it peasant?
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on April 13, 2011, 06:51:57 pm
paesant
isnt it peasant?
yes :) thanks, i just looked it up in dictionary :)
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Torak on April 13, 2011, 06:58:13 pm
+1
Great post man :D
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Dravic on April 13, 2011, 07:00:25 pm


I'd add it.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Sean_Drew on April 13, 2011, 07:25:32 pm
Your posting started good , but ended bad.

The k/d list is wrong , cause people can be good for the team , with few kills. In some rounds archers hurt many different enemies , so that a infantry player like you can kill them with one hit. You wonder and say .... wow .... my sidesword is really cool .... and i have many kills, so i´m cool too. That´s right , but the archers , who have hurt 5 enemies badly, have maybe 0 kills, but were good for the team.

Maybe a pikeman , who protects archers from cav , has 0 kills , killed 3 horsies and worked for the team , cause these archers could kill many enemies this round, which they weren´t able to do, if they were killed by the cav.

What i want to say : There are many good teamplayers out there , with few , or no kills. But they are not peasants or bad players. Dead Horsies are not count .... but it´s good for the team , if pikeman , archers, xbower are killing this horsies , so that the teammates could kill the cavplayer more easy. Drawing attention on me with my 1h/shielder is good for the team , while my 2h mate can easily kill the enemy from behind. Maybe i have 0 kills, but i played for the team. Hurt enemies are not count , but you can kill them easyier , with next hit. But all the hurting isn´t count too. Getting a siege shield into position is not counted. Warning your mates , that a cav enemy is incoming from behind is not count ..... such things ...

You can´t COUNT a good teamplayer.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on April 13, 2011, 07:30:46 pm
Thanks Torak :)

  • k < d/0 you either are asshole or have really bad luck. A lot of people hate you and you are considered as a hopeless player, who as one often doesn't let his team win.


I'd added it.
added

@Sean_Drew
I am aware that you can't count any good efforts made by teammates, therefor i have as first orientation the more general listing. The other listings are a different view to the topic, there are players who like to think only in terms on one of these listings there are also player who may consider all of them. I for myself try to consider all of them, not that i always would be able to follow them myself.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Sean_Drew on April 13, 2011, 08:04:10 pm
Ok Kinngrimm. You k/d overview is at least funny. ;-)
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on April 13, 2011, 08:15:50 pm
Ok Kinngrimm. You k/d overview is at least funny. ;-)
:) we shouldn't take games that seriously, should we ?
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Sean_Drew on April 13, 2011, 08:30:51 pm
nope ^^  :wink:
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: victis honor on April 13, 2011, 08:40:37 pm
unarmed/unarmored players..... they need to be banned asap! If they ar epoor then they shoud balance there loadout better and get some skill so there side has more chance of winning.  the having no wpn/clothes bc i just retired is also utter bullshit. If you do one of above pls piss off and play another game.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: LordRichrich on April 13, 2011, 08:59:00 pm
Take the K/D ratio stuff out, it's stupid
My K/D's are awful but I feel I'm valuable because I'll dehorse other cavalry as a cavalry myself, stun enimies as they attack with my horse-crossbowmen, shield 2h's and poles from ranged with my shielder and poke enimies with my pike with my polearm to distract them
so no my K/D is not good, but in terms of how I help the team, I beleive I'm pretty damn good
Oh, and noob cavalry players, if you see a really good cavalry guy on your team get dehorsed (Templar_Tommy, BlueGreen etc (EU servers)) offer him yours, he'll probaly make much better use of it :)
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on April 13, 2011, 11:13:07 pm
@victis honor
added unarmored/naked dudes

@LordRichrich
added giving away gear
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Kafein on April 13, 2011, 11:33:32 pm
The value of a player can be accurately estimated by the ratio between the lost and the won rounds. This idea is already developped in another thread. Come and vote !

http://forum.c-rpg.net/index.php/topic,3669.0.html
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: La Makina on April 14, 2011, 12:15:53 am
•-k/d Alas, you killed one for your teammates who was trying to steal your frag (see below). That is too bad because you were not in need of help for this one.
•0/0 leeching peacefully behind the barn
•0/d someone found you behind the barn.
•k/d where k<d you have encountered a clan, they ganged up at 5 against you in what they consider a fair fight. Welcome to the Valhalla.
•k/d where k=d you had the luck to meet some challenges, maybe a fair 1-to-1 duel and had a chance to shine.
•k/d where k>d you know what is useless and what is worthwhile in the equipment list.
•k/d where k>2*d you know how to wait for the last minute of the round to finish the wounded off. Your team might lose but who cares? Frags only matter when it comes to gain renown.
•k/d where k>3*d you master the art of stealing frags from your teammates. Your longer weaponry and you ability to attack engaged fighters ensure you the top of the scoreboard. Beware: your eagerness might make you killed by the teammate you are trying to rob (see above):
•k/d where k>4(+)*d you have searched and discovered the flaws of the mechanics of the game (armored horse archer pre-patch; PS 11 + barmace; Riding 10 + heirloomed sarranid horse, etc.). The game has probably lost its flavour but nothing is too expensive to grow your e-peen.

 :wink:
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Gurnisson on April 14, 2011, 01:23:42 am

Oh, and noob cavalry players, if you see a really good cavalry guy on your team get dehorsed (Templar_Tommy) offer him yours, he'll probaly make much better use of it :)

Dare I say that Tommy dehorsed is an even more dangerous player?
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: La Makina on April 14, 2011, 10:50:12 am
Oh, and noob cavalry players, if you see a really good cavalry guy on your team get dehorsed (Templar_Tommy) offer him yours, he'll probaly make much better use of it :)

Congratulations. You have just passed from Peasant level to Squire level. You are allowed to bring a new horse to your master and to carry the equipment, such as extra arrows, of your fellow soldiers.
Be attentive to whistling, this can be addressed to you since no one knows your name yet.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on April 14, 2011, 02:37:16 pm
@La Makina
quite funny interpretation of yours, but sadly nothing new to add :(
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: RandomDude on April 16, 2011, 05:41:54 pm
Being verbose about making team plans, listening to what other people say and then reaching a consensus

Holding out with one plan with 10 other guys while the other 30 of your team do another plan = fail.

Trying your best every round even when the team is horrible to play with

Being able to laugh at stuff that others might rage about

Not trying to get last strike on every single opponent, being conscious of your team mates who may already have let swing the killing blow

People who save my ass!
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Armpit_Sweat on April 16, 2011, 08:28:05 pm
Damn! Used 40 minutes to write a great reply - then realised, that everything i wrote was stupid and irrelevant :(

Here is a funny picture, just so I don't feel like i have totally wasted my time:

(click to show/hide)

Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Wallace on April 16, 2011, 08:48:21 pm
+1 for this

One thing I'll add that might seem obvious to some, but few do it

PAN VIEW!!!!!! When you are running around in open field not engaging instead of physically turn around just pan your camera and watch cav think they are getting a free kill. When you do a 180 and chop their head off its worth some good WTFOMGOMGOMWTFHAXHAXHAXHAX
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Belhade on April 17, 2011, 06:20:49 am
Since I am a horrible fighter (rarely is my k/d above or anywhere near >1) I try to be valuable to the team in other ways.

Push through the enemy blockade on a siege ladder/ramp. Draw the enemies away from the opening to let your teammates in.

Lure multiple enemies away from a flag defense. Keeping five guys away from a cap by yourself can help.

Turtle the flag. Throw up your shield and scratch your back with the flagpole.

I play on siege most of the time, does it show?
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Ronan on April 17, 2011, 08:21:33 am


PAN VIEW!!!!!! When you are running around in open field not engaging instead of physically turn around just pan your camera and watch cav think they are getting a free kill. When you do a 180 and chop their head off its worth some good WTFOMGOMGOMWTFHAXHAXHAXHAX

Not cool wallace. I like my free kills cause none of those silly bastards ever look behind them... I hate u I hate u! *cry
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Camaris on April 17, 2011, 08:38:07 am

what do you respect in other players over what has been writen here? What makes a good player? What do you think doesn't belong in this compilation?

Please post and i'll try to modify it if reasonable.

PS: as not native english speaker i don't mind if you correct my english as well ;)

What do i respect in other players? Tbh those rare moments where you can have a duel 1on1 in between the big battle and both respect the other are
things i do like. (even more awesome are those fights if both finish of some other dudes while continuing the duel *g*)  There are players i often fight on duel servers and every time i meet them on siege i know it will be a hard fight. Those players i have fought often
are those i respect the most because i know their style their unique technic and its always a suppirse if they got something new in their repertoire.

Actually to earn my respect i must have fought those people on duel ;)
Its telling you more about your opponent then siege or battle.

PS: And this also includes those people who cant beat me most of the time on duel but try and try like i have to do it with some other guys there.
Every time you fight them again you see how they become better.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Phazey on April 18, 2011, 02:49:17 pm
•-k/d Alas, you killed one for your teammates who was trying to steal your frag (see below). That is too bad because you were not in need of help for this one.
•0/0 leeching peacefully behind the barn
•0/d someone found you behind the barn.
•k/d where k<d you have encountered a clan, they ganged up at 5 against you in what they consider a fair fight. Welcome to the Valhalla.
•k/d where k=d you had the luck to meet some challenges, maybe a fair 1-to-1 duel and had a chance to shine.
•k/d where k>d you know what is useless and what is worthwhile in the equipment list.
•k/d where k>2*d you know how to wait for the last minute of the round to finish the wounded off. Your team might lose but who cares? Frags only matter when it comes to gain renown.
•k/d where k>3*d you master the art of stealing frags from your teammates. Your longer weaponry and you ability to attack engaged fighters ensure you the top of the scoreboard. Beware: your eagerness might make you killed by the teammate you are trying to rob (see above):
•k/d where k>4(+)*d you have searched and discovered the flaws of the mechanics of the game (armored horse archer pre-patch; PS 11 + barmace; Riding 10 + heirloomed sarranid horse, etc.). The game has probably lost its flavour but nothing is too expensive to grow your e-peen.

 :wink:

This gave me a few grins.  :lol:
It's so true though: k/d doesn't say that much. As a pro kill stealer and archer-bumpslasher, i can tell ya. It's easy. The real challenge lies in keeping that x5 going for map after map after map....  :twisted:
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Baron_Settmour on April 18, 2011, 02:55:51 pm
Quote
k/d where k>3*d you are good - people like to have you on their team and say so

For me it is more like...

k/d where k>3*d you are good - people like to have you fight on their team but hate that you yell at them when they are standing on the wall shooting arrows as the enemy captures the flag.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on April 21, 2011, 06:07:19 pm
@RandomDude
added some of your points

@Wallace
added and made new section for tricks

@Belhade
added

@Camaris
i love those moments too, when you are in the mid of battle figthing one opponent to the end without getting disturbed. If he kills me i know i have done my best and it wasn't enough, i can live with that. That others don't get involved i see mostly in the early hours of the day just before the kids get online and you are with those guys left on a server you were anyway playing the whole day. The duel server surly comes a little short in this thread, i will think about it what i can include about duels.

@Baron_Settmour
added slightly enhanced version :)


thanks for contribution lads
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Spawny on April 21, 2011, 06:33:41 pm
For shielders:

I'm usually the heavy shielder. High IF combined with decent or heavy armour with a high hp shield (Heavy board).

I'm the guy that goes up the ladder first and soaks up the first 2-3 great maul overheads.

I'm the guy that goes into the gatecontrol room first when there's hordes of enemies with chambered attacks waiting.

I'm the guy who breaks the enemy line by pushing in and causing chaos.

I'm the guy that can defend a gate or flag on his own against multiple enemies and live or buy enough time for reinforcements to arrive.

I'm the guy who can stall enemy advance over the walls and kill one every other swing.

I'm the guy you hide behind when advancing to an archer infested roof.

I usually end up with a 1:1 or 2:1 k:d ratio. When I go hunting for kills specifically I can get 4:1 or higher, but that doesn't help my team as much most of the time.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Penitent on April 21, 2011, 06:46:24 pm
Nice guide...but the k/d area should be removed.  K/D has nothing to do with your skill as a team player.

As an archer, I will have very low kills, but more deaths.  It's is hard to get the kill-shot with an arrow sometimes.  But in some rounds I will have done enough damage to kill 8 or 9 players.  Those players are then weakened and more easily dispatched by the rest of the team. 

Also, as a shielder, you can run interference, turtle up, distract enemies, save the flag, ect and not get ANY kills...but help the team a LOT. 

Therefore you can be a great player and have a bad k/d ratio.  This doesn't make you a peasant or a bad player...it means you are sacrificing k/d for the sake of the team.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Keshian on April 21, 2011, 09:43:47 pm
Being willing to be the first one to die by charging a lame clan playing siege on the battle server so that the rest of your teammates hanging back worried about dying in a video game can use you as a meatshield to get past the sniper xbows and great mauls and rape them once they are forced to actually manual block.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: KaMiKaZe_JoE on April 22, 2011, 01:58:50 am
I admire the heroic spammer who, without care for their own safety, plunges straight into the belly of the enemy's formation. I always appreciate this, for not only are they epic, but they also distract the enemy opposite me, for they now have somebody behind them left swinging like crazy.

The second they turn around I get a free kill :P
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Remy on April 22, 2011, 02:10:04 am
Are they fun to play with and against?

The only criteria worthy of note.

I play this game to have fun after all.  :P
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Mithlodir on April 22, 2011, 03:01:18 am
(click to show/hide)

+1 from this turtle. Entirely too often you are stuck on a ladder because 5 ppl with 2h/polearm  think they can make it to the top of the wall without being shot/thrown to pieces
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Casimir on April 22, 2011, 03:26:15 am
My respect goes to the person who after ive saved their spamming arse 8 times that day spares a minute of their time to assist me when ive been facehugged by a shielder with my pike out.


That said its hardly surprising i respect few of the so called heroes.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Havoco on April 22, 2011, 03:54:29 am
K>5*d- you are chuck Norris.
K>0d- you are a good archer that is on a winning team. Winning as in 4-0
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on March 26, 2012, 11:15:30 am
As i have seen lots of new players around since my return, i hope bringing this thread up will inspire some of them.

welcome to crpg

and

There is no single safe place to be - If you keep moving you will more likely be the one who surprises someone and not the someone been surprised
If you get killed within the first minute by cavalry as infantry honk, it most likely isn't about too many cavalry or not, but you been dump running out like a crazy man, later in the game there will be less cavalry so more opportunities to get out. If you like me are a crazy man anyways, have something with you to protect yourself against cavalry and stick to steep hills, map ends, in general terrain where horses have problems to navigate. Also make it a habit to use armor view, even if in close combat.

see you on the fields of blood and despair
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: k4ts0u on March 26, 2012, 11:36:21 am
Nice read. Thanks
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Zanze on March 26, 2012, 02:47:33 pm
It is truly a shame you can't judge a player reliably. K/D sucks. My pikegen, I staggered tons of people for free kills without ever getting the kill myself. My KD sucked until I actually got 5 PS, but I still really helped my team. (Who repayed me by letting my 1v1 with a longspear. Alot.)

As a shielder, many times I simply hold up my shield and facehug the enemy because I see a teammate coming up from behind. Or maybe I'll see that the enemy is in a disorganized line formation. Infantry in the front, ranged in the back. I'll simply hold up my shield, block the first hit, and run into the ranged. Funny to see them all pull out their 0-slot hammers or cheap swords and maces and try to break my shield with 1-5 PS. In the meantime, my team dominates their infantry while I get mauled from every direction by 4-5 archers/throwers/xbows.

Recently, the new fad is horse xbows. My new support tactic is to just distract them as much as possible. They aren't that good and don't exactly fire at the same time, so I can block their shots 1 by 1. Best i've done is hold off 3 for 2 minutes in a gambeson and a longspear (was teaching a friend how to drag a thrust). Actually managed to kill one. Did my team notice or care? Hah! Wear some armor noob! Get a real weapon! etc.

While I can go for kills and end up stupidly positive. I find I do better when I am in the middle or lower end of the scoreboard because I did something better for the team. Way too many times do I see myself 15-20/1-5 and losing every round because I kept goingalone and killing a few peasants, dueling a few people etc.


TL;DR, KD isn't everything. Many worthwhile things will go unnoticed. Just keep in mind, it is a team's game. Be content by knowing you did your part.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on March 26, 2012, 07:57:53 pm
@k4ts0u
if it was of any use then my deed is done :)

(click to show/hide)
well actually i am glad that judging the worth of a palyer is not only about k/d, in my beginning i would have been majorly discouraged if i would have been convinced somewhat that as a peasent i wouldn't be able to help at all.

(click to show/hide)
dragging the attention of a part of the enemy forces is one of the best ways to assure victory, they charge you and hunt you, as long you survive you will have that attention :) now you only need to tiem it correct that your reinforcements come in time. The other way arround is you wait till the enemy doesn't see you because his is hit from another site and then strike. Those who master skirmishing will not always have high k/d but, they will devide the enemy and by that the others in our team may take those chances.
I often get hunted down by 5-10 dudes, sure i mostly die then, but i have a great laugh when they then notice that those they were ment to protect are meanwhile gone or they themselves have now to face even more dudes because they just came that way ... like there are no patterns how maps work ^^

(click to show/hide)
i noticed aswell increasing numbers in horse xbow, but still i think they are inferior to horse archery, but that is only my personal opinion please noone kill me for that now ^^

(click to show/hide)
as in RL, anyone has a purpose, even if you don't know yourself yet your own, you have one, some may manage to give themselves a purpose some just copy the purpose of others, doesn't really matter, as long you enjoy it that way you play, then there is nothing wrong with how you play(Eu Server Rules included)


(click to show/hide)
true. Today i was told by Simon_HRE, i would be a bad teamplayer. I didn't answer on that, as i asked myself is that a fact? Well i go mostly out on the flanks killn stuff there, i am on the flanks from the start because i never liked the center of the battle, where often so much is going on and noone really has a grip on things, you get or deal more th's/tk's. At the time i started with M&B(a week perhaps with 3 duels and some siege and battles, couple of hours) before i started crpg, as a complete noob and additionaly at the times of the XP Cloud, i was bound to be close to others ... all the time and i began to hate it. I had pain when i th someone and i died like a moskito all over the place. over several generations i looked out for alternatives and around generation 4-7 i decided i would mainly go for flanks now and therefor constructed my builds. Back to the question am i a good teamplayer, in my opinion i am not a particular good one but bad :) no, i kill stuff , i come to help to those who are close and in need, i protect those who need protection at times and if that all doesn't count i kill stuff so that there are less enemies ... so Simon_HRE, you can't get to me  :mrgreen:

And yes i am often the single infantry around horse dudes on the flank ... mostly we get along  :twisted:
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Ronin on March 27, 2012, 01:23:01 am
Personally 2 people earned my respect in EU servers. I think they'll become good examples, and somewhat different examples what you have mentioned in your main post.

First one is Erzengel:
When I couldn't decide which build is good or which weapon is good to loom, I therefore asked it in the global chat hoping to get some useful advice. Erzengel answered all of my questions in the global chat, and give even more advice. I even bothered him via messaging and he still answered me.
After I have retired and became a 2hander from a 1hander, I gave him my heirloomed long espada eslavona during matches before someone accepted my offer at the market (in exchange of a 2handed). Even when Erzengel is in other team, I informed him that I will be dropping my sword in the front of the siege tower and did so seconds before he came. After dropping the sword, I ran away as masses of enemies were coming that way.

Second one is Makelele:
At first, I saw this guy in the rageball. He was a good team player and a scorer. Many matches I have won with him and sometimes lost because he was in the other team. Later, I saw him in shiny armors and on a plated horse in a siege server. Even though this seems like a bad idea, He bumped many enemies near the flag and saved the day for his team. I know how he saved it, because I was one of his enemies at the flag.
Nowadays, I saw him with a steel covered shield and with jarids. He got bored of his class and used respec as he said. He also said "I'm throwing shit now". What I remember of him was, he had low PT those days and found himself another way to be useful. I remember how he saved the day with an unusual method. Blocking the passage with his shield for not letting the enemy to pass. I know how he saved the day, because I was one of his enemies who tried to get past of him to reach the flag.

There are many usual methods to get known and earn the respect of others, but sometimes unusual methods make you more remembered.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Fartface on March 27, 2012, 09:43:17 am
I get great KDR ingame with a minimal of 4.2.
But i sometimes tend to teamhit due to the fact that im a 39 str build using unbalanced weapons all the time.
Also since yesterday i own a mw bamboo spear , so now i usualy pick one good guy to follow me and grabs the bamboo spear .
But sometimes teammate abondon me hardcore , and because of the 3 agi i cant flee and this leaves me so fucked since i cant dodge cav ,archers and ganks . Ganks are realy hard to beat with my build since im easily surrounded but at the other hand everybody that gets hit by me usualy dies in one hit so it is quite dangerous to gank me.
What would be your opinion about my worth?

Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Corwin on March 27, 2012, 09:55:36 am
I get great KDR ingame with a minimal of 4.2.
But i sometimes tend to teamhit due to the fact that im a 39 str build using unbalanced weapons all the time.
Also since yesterday i own a mw bamboo spear , so now i usualy pick one good guy to follow me and grabs the bamboo spear .
But sometimes teammate abondon me hardcore , and because of the 3 agi i cant flee and this leaves me so fucked since i cant dodge cav ,archers and ganks . Ganks are realy hard to beat with my build since im easily surrounded but at the other hand everybody that gets hit by me usualy dies in one hit so it is quite dangerous to gank me.
What would be your opinion about my worth?

You are useless.  :mrgreen:

Try spectating Gnjus to see how to properly play with that build and not to get shot to peaces of ganked all the time.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Grumbs on March 27, 2012, 04:40:50 pm
I can only really comment on battle and I am still kind of new, but anyway:

You should be able to recognise from a distance the players who generally do well for their team.
Never assume a round is won just because you have more players. Press tab and see if theres someone you have to account for...I've seen some crazy defeats and victories just because people forgot about a certain player
The most important part of a round can be with the last 10 or so players..if you want the biggest impact on the round its worth staying alive until then, unless you do something awesome beforehand.
Don't get tunnel vision and over extend. Try to stay aware of the bigger picture and the worth of taking down a player. If you know its someone that could destroy your team then gang up on him if possible
Don't go soloing, its not a competition for who the best dueller is. Battle isn't for showing off, and there is no honour, just wins and losses
Always secure the kill, it doesn't matter who gets the last hit just make sure he dies. But don't go trying to get the last hit on someone with team mates all around him, back off and cover an area he might go to
If you know you're going to die and are surrounded, go in random directions and spam attacks..the idea is to get them to hit each other and you might get some hits in yourself before going down
Offer suggestions for tactics, but don't assume you can get 60 players all following a plan. Sometimes you have to work with the assumption people will just press w and follow whoever decides to lead on that round

This all might sound quite keen, but thats best case scenario stuff. I don't always care to play with all this in mind :D
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Dexxtaa on March 27, 2012, 04:49:35 pm
Also, try not to die.

Harder than it sounds.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on March 28, 2012, 09:43:27 am
@corwin
this thread should be for new players who need our help or for those still want to learn more, please keep the trolling down  :wink:

@george
your build, your weapons/armor and your mind as well  form your role i guess. So there is no really bad build in my opinion, it comes down how you handle it. Bamboo spear is a great weapon for stabbing out of second rank f.e. . 39/ Str is surely something anyone need to worry about, if i would face you more often i would recognize the fact that you are able to oneshot me and would be carefull. If you got maul you definetly have a large exclamation mark above your head and i would try to trick you and those who support you by target switching. Here comes the often mentioned footwork into place, with that low of agility in your case you have a problem there and really need support of teammates to give you air. So you need to have an eye on if your your partners have an open strike ready, then you can also go into open strike position more safely  if not, you will still be outspammed. I would try to get your teammates in between me and at times when you have raised your attack i would switch from attacking your teammates to attack you ... and hopefully getting the timing right. It mostly depends on the situation. Still in one of your generations to come i would suggest a more balanced build and much later when you are more experienced a build rather focused on agility with high athletics(it is also about learning what others can do and you need to be prepared for).

@Grumbs[some very good tips, thanks, i hope you don't mind that i tried to edit them for some more perspectives]
overtime when you got to know the players you will be able to recognize some of them, some these but rather go in disguise so they can't be majorly targeted.
Pressing tab casually never hurts, at round start to see who is on the server and topping the board(you can determine some of the things you may face or would be able to avoid), after 1-2 minutes to see how it is going(when you see you have fewer then the enemy there maybe a point where you need to take more risks to even the odds), and as you said at the end to see who is still alife.
I disagree on the soloing part partially, as a new player you are totally correct, but when you got the basics and want a bigger and riskier challenge you can try flanking or even going ninja(the differences are blurry at times  :D ) For that you will need exactly the map, have planed out a route in your mind, so you have less risk to be confronted by too many cav or run into the main mob of the enemy. You need to be comfortable in fighting against 2-5 guys, you need to customize your build for that purpose(a flanker is not only a "agi" whore but especially an athletics fanatic.
Securing kills +9000, i myself get mindless at times, just on automode and trying to kill the next dude, when then i get th because we attack 1 single guy with 3+ of ours ... silly me and when then that dude finishes of the team i could bite me in the a** for not activating my brain more.
Outnumbered is one of the most intense situations and i love them, you can target switch to another dude with an open attack to get him down, you can run through them either with block or with attack open and hit at the instance you see an opening you can backpedal spam, you can try to outmanouver them when they try to spam you, going left/righ that brings the enemy often into their own strikes and much more, there are some players out there which do especially well in these situations, watch them and see how they time things or if only to stay in awe  :P

@Dexxtaa
seen you yesterday couple of times on NA Servers, respect, now i know what is all the fuzz about you  :shock:
And your tip  :mrgreen: Zen of crpg
...
...
...
Lately again i often thought about Survivability, as it gives you the opportunity to strike. You see there are many players out there with the concept, the more dmg the better, as you need fewer strikes to kill someone(if you are able to hit him), which is fine, also with high iron flesh and a good armor your survivability is really increased, still if you play mindless, a couple of hits and you are done nonetheless. Then there are the so called agi whores, they have less in IF, less armor, less PS, but more athletics which opens up a big box of new tricks you can try to learn. For starters, they can avoid fights they guess they may not survive, then they choose the terrain and time. In this game it is all mixed in, from the point of Zun Tzu these are 3 major factors to win a fight. Location(hill against cav f.e.), Strike when he is week(sneak attack or targets you think you can handle more easily), timing(the dude is looking into his telescope to target another ranged ... he doesn't see me coming, you see the trap of someone prepared for your team out of another direction ...) ....
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Corwin on March 28, 2012, 09:53:19 am
@corwin
this thread should be for new players who need our help or for those still want to learn more, please keep the trolling down  :wink:


My advice to spectate Gnjus in order to learn how to play full STR build was not trolling, but a useful advice. Because he is one of those that play with that build and has over 4:1 ration.
And if he wants it summed up, the point is to avoid open spaces and spaces where you can get shot or where you can get ganked. Hide behind the wall, behind a corner, in some bushes, in some tower, there's a proper place on almost every map. The only problem with this build is that it requires PATIENCE to be successful, which is why I could never make myself play with it, being one of the most impatient persons in game.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on March 28, 2012, 10:12:04 am
My advice to spectate Gnjus in order to learn how to play full STR build was not trolling, but a useful advice. Because he is one of those that play with that build and has over 4:1 ration.
And if he wants it summed up, the point is to avoid open spaces and spaces where you can get shot or where you can get ganked. Hide behind the wall, behind a corner, in some bushes, in some tower, there's a proper place on almost every map. The only problem with this build is that it requires PATIENCE to be successful, which is why I could never make myself play with it, being one of the most impatient persons in game.
thanks for clarifying, implied information is a tough cooky for new guys who don't know ... f.e. Gnjus or are on NA Servers, also with starting an advice with "You are useless"(even with a neat emote) does not quite ensure the focus on the name of one player afterwards.

Gnjus is atm str build with heavy armor and 2h/great maul. One of his favorite tactics is to stay at a corner or after the entrance of a building, preferably with others who can secure him from getting outspamed, preferred in narrow locations so that mobility is restricted and you can't get away easily from his chrushtrough weapon. Counters: Don't go there. If you go there, try to get some of his friends between him and yourself and watch him kill his own team ;) (doesn't happen often but if so it is a great laugh), Always be prepared that at some point he comes out anyways and then kills those who got bored waiting and not paying attention anymore.
[EDIT: i don't like camping, never did, i remember my first barn camp, suggested by Gnjus at that time. It was once a success, but it is mostly only every 4-5th time a success, in the other cases it is a clusterfuck.
My opinion, moving targets are always superior to stationary targets.
But then you may have more maulers in your team, and having 2-3 at an entrance of an building is devastating, still don't go there!!!]
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Camaris on March 28, 2012, 10:50:50 am
Quote
you come to support another player who is in trouble - if it happens regulary with the same, he will know and sometimes thank you for it or at least gives you a sign of aknowledgement like an upper block or rising his shield.

If most people actually would be a support ;)
Most of them stop my swings and try to steal the kill.
I die more often because of people helping me then i survive because of them.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on March 28, 2012, 03:48:18 pm
If most people actually would be a support ;)
Most of them stop my swings and try to steal the kill.
I die more often because of people helping me then i survive because of them.
in pub battles/sieges, i think it is not so much people don't want to support, but they aren't used to the specifics of players a) roles b) reactions. b) you most efficently can train in clans a) only through experience and staying put to what is happening around you

And making a score most want, doing it in a fashion not hitting your own or getting slaughtered in the process ... thats the art we need to learn. At times i am so full of rage  :twisted: mostly because when i did stupid things which resulted in my death but also when you face unavoidable deaths, shot to pieces, lanced from more cavalaries then you have fingers, 2-3 chrushtrough dudes waiting at the stairs on siege or in a ruin on battle and ofcourse, you did everything correct, played to the best of your abilities, and get thed/tked ... sigh
overall great training for staying calm at all times ^^
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Fartface on March 29, 2012, 07:07:21 pm
Kingrim you have played with me , i remember the 2 of us guarding an alley on a city map .
You had a bamboo spear i was using my danish together we slaughtered like 9 players:D
Also i know Gnjus , and i generaly also get 4:1 kdr every map en round so why would i need to spec him:D
And my gear is mw bamboo , with a morningstar :D
But i play eu4 mostly so if you want to see me play join there.
My new tactic is to seek out an polearm player i know , Blackpoint , Thovex etc and drop him my mw bamboo and use my morningstar then next round he spawns with he bamboo and il spawn with my great maul!
13 ps and a greatmaul fuckssss up people :D
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Riddaren on March 29, 2012, 07:20:50 pm
  • using PAN/Armor View while going in one direction, letting the enemy think you are unaware and turning around in last second to stab them, stop the horse and similar things.

I played this game for 1,5 years (1 year SP and 0,5 year MP) before I discovered you can look around.
I actually thought those 2H players making a 180 and stabbing my horse just had good hearing... :)

Using this functionality will make you a lot better, even on horseback.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Bulzur on March 29, 2012, 08:20:28 pm
I always tend to miss the timing versus coursers though, thoses things are so fast...
As for arabian's, i don't bother anymore, they can stop nearly instantly, so it's very risky to hurt the horse of an experienced cav player, even by feinting afk at spawn.

But it's sure fun when it works.^^
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Fartface on March 29, 2012, 08:27:49 pm
Playing ´´death´´ at spawn will get you killed , even with bamboo because there wont only come one cav player there will come alot so they will just gank you as cav.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Jacko on March 29, 2012, 08:31:55 pm
Some thoughts on ranged worth.

I love skirmishing. Dictating when to attack, sneaking around killing off unaware targets, killing their ranged. It takes patience, especially if you know you have others like yourself against you. Know your class, know your own weaknesses and capitalize on your strengths. Skirmishing is a pretty solo activity, but pulled off correctly it will wreck the other team.

Now, being in the fray might be just as effective, clearing out close by infantry and forcing cav away, but you lose the initiative, because you have to follow your own infantry or get picked off.

Truthfully, I am probably more effective for my team when I stick to the main group, killing cav and archers, but nothing beats a successfull skirmish round. That is worth.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Fartface on March 29, 2012, 08:50:02 pm
Also as my personal set of advices.
~ Bring long spear, bamboo spear , any support weapon realy if you can, have you ever seen 7 bamboo spears in one team working together.~ITS AWFULL
~ Know each map , and always try to see the battle from the overal vieuw , what i mean that if 75% of your team goes left and then at the left side of the map you only notice very little enemys you know that there team went right. Sounds stupid but most people seems to fail at that , also know that those small group of enemys you encountered are fucked because you outnumber them big time.
~ Listen to good rock music while fighting : guns n roses , nickelback etc !! very important.
~ As for siege FOR THE LOVE OF CHRIST let the fuckin shielders go up the ladders first.
~ As in battle keep an general idea of where your enemy is , and how your team is doing and ESPECCIALY where you're needed.
~Also as corwin stated your battle awereness is important , dont get cav fucked , dont get archer fucked , dont get ganked. A good way to prevent most of this is to stick to the big group of your team and know the position of your enemys aswel.
~ Know yourself , what i mean with that is that if you are an agi build you dont want to be charging in the beggining of the build and risk taking that hit or archer shot. Also if your health is low at the end of the round try to play saver and stick with your team as an agi build. If on higher health you can go solo saver knowing that you can take a hit if needed or an arrow and walk. For strenght builds if the round is coming to an end and you're still on high health try to fight very agresive most of your enemys will have low health and be terrified of you being so agresive.
~ Know your weapon , if the melee battle is clashing and you got an opponent to pick , pick the one that is easily taken out by you so if you are using the maul aim for a piker/hoplite/one hander and leave the katanas en other fast weapons for the teammates at first instance. Then once the battle begins more skirmishy as an agi build try to do like one hit on one enemy then switch your oppenent to someone your aly is fighting or who is reloading or just busy in general.
~ Tell general easy commands , as in cav left , group of pikers at the right and vice versa.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: SoA_Sir_ODHarry on April 01, 2012, 01:10:33 am
-if u gotta a shield and fight in the BigbBlob protect ur teammates
-if u see/hear cav attacking ur team warn ur teamates per voicecommands and engage the cav no matter what weapon (down block :P) direct the couch in the nothing :)
-if u gotta shield engage ranged aimin for ur mates even if u leave a kill for it
-if many of ur mates attack 1 foe dont try too kill him at all cost too avoid TH n TKs!!!!!
-if u think u gotta good tactic for the battel tell it too ur peopel
-if u recognize that ur team is splitt call for a regroup
-dont be too kill hungry
-know and play the role of ur class in the big blobs
-Avoid THs and SHAME for every1 u could had AVOID
-dont fear THs/TKs too kill a Topscorer if u gotta a Chance for it!!! ;=)
-dont delay the fukin round
-aim for hammers n pikers if u got ranged wep
-dont leave ur Team if u dont know what u do


atleast the community should creat a offical Codex for battelmodez, for evry Class/playstyle
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 01, 2012, 05:31:53 pm
timing(the dude is looking into his telescope to target another ranged ... he doesn't see me coming, you see the trap of someone prepared for your team out of another direction ...) ....

This is what I use against you when I'm on horseback. It is just a payback for all the times you've backrubbed me with your pick :D.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player - added ethic section
Post by: kinngrimm on April 01, 2012, 06:25:55 pm
added ethic section :)

edited skirmishing as mentioned by Jacko
edited the pan/view slightly to make clear this is not only for long walkways suitable as OdHarry mentioned this cant be said enough how important it is to get your battleawarness up and the best tool is the pan/armor view combined with zoom.

added
suggestion about linebreakers by KaMiKaZe_JoE

@all
i still try to keep this as general as possible, before i started this i wanted to make a shielder guide, but it turned out that most of the stuff i would have to say is suitable for most of the classes. So i will mix in partly class based advices but i prefer general advices who could be taken from everybody.

@Son Of Odin
 :mrgreen:  i know you do, as do some other good cav players, i can tell from how they circle me in medium distance or pretend to attack someone far away only to make a loop and come back for me. And at times i would then be occupied with a fight you have a good chance to strike me down. Not so much if i am only on the move  :wink:
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Fartface on April 01, 2012, 06:33:37 pm
spawning a mw bamboo spear helps your team aswel.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player - added ethic section
Post by: Son Of Odin on April 01, 2012, 06:55:02 pm
@Son Of Odin
 :mrgreen:  i know you do, as do some other good cav players, i can tell from how they circle me in medium distance or pretend to attack someone far away only to make a loop and come back for me. And at times i would then be occupied with a fight you have a good chance to strike me down. Not so much if i am only on the move  :wink:

I know you are using pan view all the time when you move, so it would be the most stupid thing to charge you when you have your cavrearing weapon at hand. I just usually wait until you engage into a fight with someone and try to backstab you or just bump (especially if you use that leather jacket... It doesn't take many bumps to kill you then :D).

Once I couched you when you were totally unaware... I think it was that castle ruin place where you were killing our spawncampers... I must ashamedly admit it was delicious kill because you still had your bamboo spear in your hand and I'm sorry if I made you GTX when I wrote "HELLO KINNGRIMM!" in the chat afterwards :D. I just had to do it because it is just so rare occation to surprise you like that.

Oh and thank you. I'm flattered as you imply that I'm a good cav player. You're not too bad shielder yourself :wink:
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Teeth on April 01, 2012, 07:01:09 pm
You are useless.  :mrgreen:

Try spectating Gnjus to see how to properly play with that build and not to get shot to peaces of ganked all the time.
I'll describe it.You stand in any building, preferably with only one way in and wait till the enemies show up. If they are not coming, wait some more. If its the last minute and no one has showed up, you get out, meet the first enemy, fail a few blocks and die. Then you spend your time while death convincing players to camp the building you were in last round.

Now instead of being a lame camper, you are a general with great 'tactics'. Because there is ten of you in the building now, they will have to come look for you. Now you crushthrough on everyone trying to enter and attain good scores without being ganked and shot to pieces. Now Corwin considers you a good player. Yay!



Oh and ontopic: Maybe you should add something along the lines of helping a piker out by using overheads or sideswings. Always great when you are using a pike and an enemy is just holding downblock. Then your teammate with a Danish comes to help you and proceeds to stab at the enemy. :rolleyes: If properly done, helping a piker out by trying to synchronise your other attacks with his stabs can quickly decimate a whole lot of enemies and grant both of you awesome scores.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Corwin on April 01, 2012, 10:07:16 pm
I'll describe it.You stand in any building, preferably with only one way in and wait till the enemies show up. If they are not coming, wait some more. If its the last minute and no one has showed up, you get out, meet the first enemy, fail a few blocks and die. Then you spend your time while death convincing players to camp the building you were in last round.

Now instead of being a lame camper, you are a general with great 'tactics'. Because there is ten of you in the building now, they will have to come look for you. Now you crushthrough on everyone trying to enter and attain good scores without being ganked and shot to pieces. Now Corwin considers you a good player. Yay!


lol

Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on September 10, 2012, 12:30:25 pm
@SgtTeeh
included the adjusting of attack directions dependent on teammates

included shouts and warnings as information for the team and their ongoing status within the fight and dangers to look out for.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: HUtH on September 10, 2012, 02:44:37 pm
Kinngrimm the Necromancer
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on September 10, 2012, 03:38:19 pm
Kinngrimm the Necromancer
ever played Warlords Battlecry? i had a lvl 45 Necromancer, so yeah =)
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Grumpy_Nic on September 11, 2012, 04:12:53 pm
What I value in other players:

1. Being a good fighter simply by being good at attacking/blocking no matter which weapon/shield without having to use glitches/animation failures
2. Teamplayers
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Lannistark on September 12, 2012, 08:19:30 pm
Well, even though I mostly suck at cRPG, I try to be an honourable player. When fighting 1 on 1, I try not to kick at all, as It'd be a dirty trick to perform. Everytime I killed an opponent I used to do an upper block in sign of respect. Nowadays, I just do it automatically.

Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on September 13, 2012, 01:58:09 pm
Well, even though I mostly suck at cRPG, I try to be an honourable player. When fighting 1 on 1, I try not to kick at all, as It'd be a dirty trick to perform. Everytime I killed an opponent I used to do an upper block in sign of respect. Nowadays, I just do it automatically.
I haven't seen that behaviour lately that often, a year and longer ago, i have seen that frequently, that if you meet someone on the field you would salute him and then you would fight, other people then even would stay out of this and either waiting their term or looking for another opponent to fight against. That happened mostly on smaller servers of about 20-30 people, which was in the time between 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock in the morning when most of the players new each others fighting styles anyways. I do use the upper block in my case holding my shield upwards to greet people , to see if they would follow me onto the flanks and as a sign of respect to opponents i just killed. As for the duel situation, on battle servers you can't expect people to stay out of it, but sometimes there is a silent understanding and noone engages in these duels, those are nearly sacret moments, they are rare and they are beautyfull. People just watching in exitment 2 opponents and willingly jeapordising their unholy Multiplier.
The grind mentality is deep in us, i know it from myself, but if i see that there is already one bystander at a fight not engaging for no obvious reason i also just watch and see what happens or carry on to find another target, overall the game is about getting into a fight not only watching :) then i could just download some youtube videos of crpg and eat some popcorn.

The kickslashin may seem dirty, but it is a game mechanic so anyone is allowed to use it. My beef with it is only that a) the shorter the weapon the less chance you have to not get target in that way, as you need to follow to get into weapons reach and as you are in the need to follow the wise opponent can lay a charm of movement pattern onto you which then automaticly brings you into the situation where you get kicked. b) the "2h/pole kick miss imba still able to block"-combo(repeat anyways till kick hits)
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on September 14, 2012, 09:58:15 am
Edited the warnings:
Siege specif warning, even if you get overun at flag and have 30 sec respawn, type in FLAG anyways, others of your team may respawn seconds later and are able to repeat the warning.
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: Piok on September 14, 2012, 10:43:19 am
•-k/d Alas, you killed one for your teammates who was trying to steal your frag (see below). That is too bad because you were not in need of help for this one.
•0/0 leeching peacefully behind the barn
•0/d someone found you behind the barn.
•k/d where k<d you have encountered a clan, they ganged up at 5 against you in what they consider a fair fight. Welcome to the Valhalla.
•k/d where k=d you had the luck to meet some challenges, maybe a fair 1-to-1 duel and had a chance to shine.
•k/d where k>d you know what is useless and what is worthwhile in the equipment list.
•k/d where k>2*d you know how to wait for the last minute of the round to finish the wounded off. Your team might lose but who cares? Frags only matter when it comes to gain renown.
•k/d where k>3*d you master the art of stealing frags from your teammates. Your longer weaponry and you ability to attack engaged fighters ensure you the top of the scoreboard. Beware: your eagerness might make you killed by the teammate you are trying to rob (see above):
•k/d where k>4(+)*d you have searched and discovered the flaws of the mechanics of the game (armored horse archer pre-patch; PS 11 + barmace; Riding 10 + heirloomed sarranid horse, etc.). The game has probably lost its flavour but nothing is too expensive to grow your e-peen.

 :wink:
Very nice.. If I could +5 for it
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on September 14, 2012, 12:45:19 pm
the K/d thingy i want to expand by the new damage whatever there is in included thingy ... any suggestions?
Title: Re: The Worth of a Player
Post by: kinngrimm on February 12, 2014, 01:25:57 pm
With the latest post about numbers of players declining (http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/number-of-players-declining/msg951629/#msg951629) and there being mentioend several times that our community often treats new players badly, by that i also would define a worth of a player if he is treating new players well. Added at the end refering to that.

Also some of these things posted mabe out of date, if i get to it i will overhaul my first post.