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Author Topic: Unban Essay - The difference between fooling around and disrupting/griefing  (Read 22452 times)

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Offline Bjord

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Hello.

No surprise, some might say, yes here I am again.

As a player with quite a ban record, I understand that there are higher expectations on me to behave. Yes, you can only get so many chances. I've had quite a few. Times have changed, as have I and you can no longer use year old ban records for justifying a ban.

That is precisely what happened to me.

I got judged for my ban record, in addition to an admin assuming things about my personality and using it as justification in their decision. This admin was Uther and before I had a talk with him, he believed I had anger management issues which is why he never even bothered to get my side of the story. Not only is this very irresponsible, but also completely unfair.

I sorted this out with Uther and we talked a bit on Steam, and he got a better understanding of who I am as a person.

I think it's very important to know the people you're playing with when you're an admin, so that you don't make assumptions about other people without truly knowing who they are. Especially if you tend to use these judgments when deciding how to deal with an offender.

The result of my conversation with Uther enabled him to understand that I am actually a reasonable guy and that I don't try to disrupt the server or players but that I perhaps fool around a bit.

I find the rules to be important, but I feel that you shouldn't be a fucking fascist when admining the server. If a clanmate hits his other clanmate, you don't have to interfere etc. etc.

Last week I was banned late at night with less than 20 people playing, and I do not agree with this ban at all. I think it was completely unfair and I will present my arguments as to why.

(click to show/hide)

(click to show/hide)

Take a look at the screenshot, and you will see that I teamhit Xesta a total of three times. He claims I hit him an extra three times if you take a look at the other screen.

What happened was, I was a bit inebriated having had a few beers and I got home and felt like playing a bit of good ole' SeaArrPeeGee. I got on, and after drunkedly deciding to respec my alt STF character to an 18/27 build with low armour and +3 katana, I got into a mishap with the gregarious fellow Xesta, who is oh-so enjoyable to have around and is not petty at all.

I had accidentally hit Xesta with my masterful drunken style masterwork katana flurry while we were ganking some poor guy, and he responds in a fit of rage unseen at this unholy hour and hits me with all his baby rage fury in the back.

In good humour and hardly phased, I thought to myself "Ah, bitch. You want to dance?" and hit him once while he desperately tried, ultimately failed to block my godly drunken abilities - then landing the second intentionalas he was trying to retaliate, ending the whole spectacle with a GODLY headshot from an enemy archer.
* Bjord tips his hat

Now, imagine if you are so reactive as to hit back from an accidental teamhit, HOW fuming you would be if you lost a bitch fight and even got headshotted by an enemy archer, your sworn foe laughing as your feces are no longer held in place by your rectal muscles and you shit yourself into the afterlife.

Who is it then that suffers anger management problems? Just a few minutes playing with Xesta and you will understand that he is a very angry fellow and this angry fellow didn't want to accept the fact that he got classed in a bitch fight, so he went and done made the thread.

Ban mongering is the last thing you want to promote if you want a thriving community, and is something you should actively work against. That is why it's so important to put emphasis on enjoyment and allow people the privilege of fooling around, and not banning for every little rule break.

That's basically the whole story, and then I had to deal with a very rude admin called Rico who just gave me nonchalante, rude and sarcastic remarks whenever I provided fair points as to why this ban was not handled well until I finally got to speak with someone reasonable. So thank you, Uther, and I will be extra careful in the future who I am fooling around with, rest assured.

So guys, in short... If you are an admin, Please stop being a fascist and try to enjoy the game - The difference between fooling around and disruption is huge.

Don't be a robot and learn to see that difference, know when to step in and do your job.

As in this case, if you're going to ban one guy for breaking a rule then don't miss the guy who started the intentional hitting in the first place.

Thank you, and remember to enjoy yourself. It's only a game.
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Offline POOPHAMMER

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+13
This seems to be more of an attack on admins/people that make ban threads rather than an essay. This is your second unban essay which means you have obviously been doing things the community do not approve of. You claim ban mongering will make a community die, but do you think people honestly want to play when people like you can just run around without being banned?

Sorry I feel as if you missed the entire point.
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Offline Leshma

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Offline Malaclypse

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This seems to be more of an attack on admins/people that make ban threads rather than an essay.

The Ol' SpookIsland tactic doesn't work great does it? Unban SpookIsland, also.
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Offline Makelele

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If only the topic was "The shortcomings of other people", I would definitely rate this 5/5.

Offline XyNox

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I have nothing against you as a player from a personal point of view bjord. Sure, you have a certain kind of reputation going on that cannot be denied. I as a player however cannot remember having any problems with you in terms of rule breaks or griefing ( and if there were any they could not have been severe since I cant remember them ). From an admin point of view though, I am inclined to say that the points you raise in this "essay" are just unreasonable.

Disregarding the fact for a moment that you completely abandoned the topic, in essence most of the mentalities you demand admins to possess are corruption by definition. From all these years and from numerous threads and chats that involved you as an offender of some sort I always got the impression that instead of accepting rules, you just seem to replace them by your own versions according to your sense of justice and then claiming the others are in the wrong since you followed them. This thread just reinforces this picture.

"Admins have to warn before banning or kicking", "Admins cannot justify bans by old ban records", "Admins have to take the personality of the player into account before issuing a punishment", "Admins are not allowed to ban if the people involved in it are fine with it" etc.

Sorry but no, this is the whole lesson here that you seem to fail to understand. It is neither for you, nor for admins to make up what is acceptable and what is not. It is dictated by common sense, if not otherwise specified by the cRPG staff. It does not matter if you think that your "friendly teamhit" or "fooling around" was meant as a joke when the receiving party does not share it as such. If that turns out to be the case the offended have all the right to claim justice, which should be common sense. What kind of personality an offender has is also of no relevance and must not matter when deciding on an administrative measure to be taken. Anything else would be biased or corrupt.

For the rest of your post I have to agree with Male, you abused your time on stage to fling out insults rather than actually convincing people that you are willing to do better in the future.

It is not my responsibility to decide whether you get unbanned or not but to be honest, if you are still not willing to play by the rules and still insist it is your right to interpret justice in a way that fits you although 16 bans and 2 essays already gave you more than enough chances to realize your fault, there is no justification in lifting your ban.
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Offline Molly

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Tbh this essay kinda hit me by surprise since I wasn't aware of the essay ban by now.

Well, hardly an essay is it. Pardon my French but you look more like an angry monkey flinging shit around... which is not the purpose of an essay ban. At least not that I am aware of. You even made me +1 a post coming from Xynox :wink:

I'd like to add something for the others:
I witnessed you teamkilling an archer which annoyed you the map before at round start, 1st round of the new map. The only reason I didn't ban you is because the archer asked me not to with the words...
Quote
Nah, he's just a kid
...and you made it quite obvious that he was right.

I'm a Krems member and we're the very definition of fooling around. In the eyes of a lot of other players we're probably the most annoying thing ever hitting this mod. Yet we still manage to "nurture our playstyle" without provoking ban threads for most of the times. Most admins are already very lenient and are aware of the "special care" the crpg playerbase needs. You seem to be one of the players that still fails to realize the freedom you already have on the servers.

It is not up to me to judge but if it were - keeping in mind Panos who supplied the whole taleworlds team with a nice vacation all by himself with all the keys he had to buy :lol: - I wouldn't allow you back into our midst.
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Offline Duster

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The Ol' SpookIsland tactic doesn't work great does it? Unban SpookIsland, also.

http://forum.melee.org/unban-essays/the-greatest-unban-essay-ever-written-(expression-freedom-maturity-honesty)/

The single best unban essay ever written.
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Offline Rico

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Just like in our chat, you are presenting yourself as a victim, not as an offender. I don't buy it from a guy with your ban history. Your bans aren't a year old, they are almost a year long. May have been a minor slip-up on your part, regarding those intricate details around the one-year thing. Your last 2 bans before the essay ban are from 20.02.2016 22:47:34 and 23.02.2016 14:39:40, which is obviously recent.

The evidence justifying your last ban are the statements of two witnesses and the screenshot with three teamhits. Without similarly clear evidence proving that Xesta intentionally revenge-teamhit you, you can't expect him to get punished. Right now, all we got is the report of a guy who isn't exactly on moral high ground because he counters alleged revenge-teamhits with revenge-teamhitting on his own. It looks to me very much like you're trying to get a greencard for rule-breaking as long as it's just "fooling around", but if that's not working out, your booby prize shall be taking Xesta down with you, at least.

You chose a bad strategy (read: us fascist admins aren't THAT stupid). Faking an apology would have worked better than trying to justify what you did. In the chat you had with Uther, he explained to you why breaking rules repeatedly is not okay, even if the offenses are minor and you commit them in a non-antagonizing fashion (if that's even a thing). This essay confirms you haven't learned a thing. I doubt pretending to be Uther's bestie will successfully hide that.
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Offline Butan

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http://forum.melee.org/unban-essays/the-greatest-unban-essay-ever-written-(expression-freedom-maturity-honesty)/

The single best unban essay ever written.

Funniest part of it is reading in retrospective the first response to SpookIsland.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2016, 12:45:14 pm by Butan »

Offline Rico

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Funniest part of it is reading in retrospective the first response to SpookIsland.

Well, as Bjord said himself, people change
(click to show/hide)
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Offline Bjord

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This seems to be more of an attack on admins/people that make ban threads rather than an essay. This is your second unban essay which means you have obviously been doing things the community do not approve of. You claim ban mongering will make a community die, but do you think people honestly want to play when people like you can just run around without being banned?

Sorry I feel as if you missed the entire point.

Not the community, the admins.

My ban was overruled by three admins because they thought that the amount of bans I had gotten in a short amount of time was alarming.

However, my prior ban I shouldn't even have gotten a ban, and the admin in question was advised to remove the ban.

So, these last two bans were kind of strange.

I have no problem owning up to major rule breaking, if I had committed it. Agan you are looking at the past and fucking years have passed since, I'm not the same person and I don't enjoy causing disruption on the server. I just want to play the game.

Xesta here got massive butthurt from me being a nonchalante dickhead at 2 AM and he went to the forums to cry about it. I'm really surprised why only I was banned, and in addition the ban was overruled.

Nobody has met me halfway on this, so far.
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Offline Bjord

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I have nothing against you as a player from a personal point of view bjord. Sure, you have a certain kind of reputation going on that cannot be denied. I as a player however cannot remember having any problems with you in terms of rule breaks or griefing ( and if there were any they could not have been severe since I cant remember them ). From an admin point of view though, I am inclined to say that the points you raise in this "essay" are just unreasonable.

Disregarding the fact for a moment that you completely abandoned the topic, in essence most of the mentalities you demand admins to possess are corruption by definition. From all these years and from numerous threads and chats that involved you as an offender of some sort I always got the impression that instead of accepting rules, you just seem to replace them by your own versions according to your sense of justice and then claiming the others are in the wrong since you followed them. This thread just reinforces this picture.

"Admins have to warn before banning or kicking", "Admins cannot justify bans by old ban records", "Admins have to take the personality of the player into account before issuing a punishment", "Admins are not allowed to ban if the people involved in it are fine with it" etc.

Sorry but no, this is the whole lesson here that you seem to fail to understand. It is neither for you, nor for admins to make up what is acceptable and what is not. It is dictated by common sense, if not otherwise specified by the cRPG staff. It does not matter if you think that your "friendly teamhit" or "fooling around" was meant as a joke when the receiving party does not share it as such. If that turns out to be the case the offended have all the right to claim justice, which should be common sense. What kind of personality an offender has is also of no relevance and must not matter when deciding on an administrative measure to be taken. Anything else would be biased or corrupt.

For the rest of your post I have to agree with Male, you abused your time on stage to fling out insults rather than actually convincing people that you are willing to do better in the future.

It is not my responsibility to decide whether you get unbanned or not but to be honest, if you are still not willing to play by the rules and still insist it is your right to interpret justice in a way that fits you although 16 bans and 2 essays already gave you more than enough chances to realize your fault, there is no justification in lifting your ban.

I'm very willing to play by the rules, but if you look at my ban history then I find it very frustrating that you won't even try to look at me from a new perspective, still having that image of me being an insult-flinging monkey baboon who is unable to function in a community bla bla bla.

Mate, I just wanna chill and play the game and not fucking have to deal with crybabies 2 AM, ok?

My first essay ban was fucking genuine and I got the response that it deserved, this essay ban was complete bullshit and even Uther half admitted that, and allowed me to shorten the words and just summarize everything I wrote to him on Steam.
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Offline WarLord

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Is ... is the correct answer ...
(click to show/hide)
?

 :mrgreen:

I wasn't even aware that Bjord was ever banned hahaha. He always was an quite arrogant and narcissistic player who felt superior to others in every possible way. But I guesss that comes with being a really good player in a community full of retards and bad players who can't stand being stomped both ingame and verbally.

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d anyway  :twisted:



Offline Butan

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I agree with Bjord about how bans are scaled up dramatically fast.

I had only one ban I believe, but I know a fair share of people that had 2 or more, and the speed at which you can meet the "1 month ban" bar or even the "unban essay" bar even if you only do some completely minor shit a couple times is completely FUBAR for such a small and chill community.
Lacking time to properly monitor cases, impossibility to apply selective "fair" judgement... admins look at ban history and "word-of-mouth" and thats pretty much it. It is a reality that cannot be denied; at the same time we cant blame the admins for this.



Except for extremely hardcore stuff I believe permabans/essay bans should be replaced by 1-3 months bans, max.