Author Topic: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow  (Read 801 times)

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Offline Oggrinsky

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Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« on: June 27, 2013, 01:19:00 am »
+1
I'd really like to have a discussion about Horse Throwers (HT's) and more particularly the HT's place amongst other ranged cavalry. I'd also like to get some feedback from other players who have given the class a legitimate try. I haven't done any number crunching nor do I have a clear idea of what I'd like changed, I just want to have a discussion about my favorite underused and unappreciated class. Maybe you already have some ideas that you'd like to share or maybe you think it's fine how it is. I'd like to know either way. It's not a popular class and certainly one I've received a lot of verbal abuse and team wounds for playing. Please leave your "fuck ranged cav" comments at the door.

Personally, I've really wanted to make this class my thing. I've been playing this mod for what seems like a long time now and I've tried just about every combination of stats and proficiencies available. The one class that still strikes me as being particularly unbalanced and unloved is the Horse Thrower.

Sure it's inaccurate (it should be) and there is a low amount of ammo. These things don't bug me, I think both cons are important in keeping throwing balanced. What does bug me is my damage and over all inefficiency I feel in comparison with a Horse Xbow (HX) player of similar skill level. As a HT I feel like an incredibly gimped HX, especially when fighting against one. Throwing should be the most damaging projectile and the only time a horse thrower is going to do considerably more damage than a HX is when a throw gets the speed bonus from a horse coming in their direction. Besides that, from my playing experience, a HX can cause more damage overall because it's projectiles don't suffer from the same speed malus as throwing projectiles. Too many times have I filled a medium armoured lancer with 2 MW throwing lances (or 4 MW throwing spears) only to have them still joyfully lance-ploughing my team because of the over the top speed malus. This probably wouldn't be a problem for me because I understand the potential OPness of throwing without the speed malus. What makes it an issue is HX's not having a severe malus of their own.

Horse Xbows get more ammo, much greater accuracy, and a superior build which allows for a much higher riding skill, more weapon proficiency points, and more horse archery skill. Combine this with the lack of an xbow stat and it's no wonder I'm so incredibly frustrated when fighting HX. Hell, sometimes when I play HA it feels the same way but I'm personally content with the state of Horse Archers. I guess this is turning into a NERF HORSE XBOW thread, but if I feel like that's been a popular sentiment for some time... at least in NA_1. There's good reason for it.

I don't think that HX should be removed or nerfed into the ground, nor do I want to see HT buffed out of it's current niche. What I want, I think, is to not feel like I'm handicapping myself because I've chosen to play a class that isn't widely loved and/or abused.

That's enough out of me. What does Crpg think? I'd appreciate any constructive feedback. Thanks.  :D

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2013, 04:37:05 am »
0
fuck ranged cav
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Smoothrich

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Re: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2013, 04:53:59 am »
+1
get good
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Offline Torost

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Re: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« Reply #3 on: June 27, 2013, 04:59:39 am »
0
I play mainly horsethrower now.

It is an expensive hobby in terms of upkeep.

You have to fill a niche. I try to work as a forcemultiplier. In the first minutes of the battle I will target other cav.
Esp go head to head with charging lancers, as you get max speedbonus in those encounters. throw early enough for you to avoid the lance.
Or make sure you hit! :D

After that I will try to harass ranged camping in the rear and  use my mobility to support melee that need help.

Speedbonus is key, dont waste ammo throwing at people riding away from you. And try to get alittle speed in the direction of you target.
If you opt for one of the higher tier horses you have an additional weapon in bumping, at the cost of speedbonus and manovre. You then stun them just before the bump, so that the can not swing at you.

I use 4 packs of MW throwingspears. Have 7PT, 150 wpf in throwing and rest in polearm.  I can use and pickup Throwinglances if I see them.

At some point you do not have any ammo left. You can pickup ammo as you go, but it is painstaking work (for me atleast).
I tend to pick up a random meleeweapon and go 1h/2h/pole cav.

Compared to HX with all it perks horsethrowing is abit silly. But the ability to throw again faster than a crossbow is key.
Use this to circle enemies and serialbump while throwing at them constantly.

Avoid prolonged fights with other horserange. You are much more effective to your team doing other tasks.
Be opertunistic.

Good luck!

/rambling



Offline Oggrinsky

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Re: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 01:39:11 am »
0
Just saw this in the new patch notes:

Quote
Urist: - added HA skill malus to xbow and removed it from throwing

Awesome! Can't wait to try it out.

On a side note, thanks for the response Torost. I was hoping there'd be some more opinions, but, oh well.

I'm not familiar with Zlisch... but I imagine Smoothrich leads a fulfilling/enriching life... like most forum trolls.

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 01:45:38 am »
-1
As the longest playing EU horsethrower besides maybe GK_Lorenzo I'll go ahead and say that this change is total bullshit, should be reverted.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Oggrinsky

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Re: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 01:57:08 am »
0
As the longest playing EU horsethrower besides maybe GK_Lorenzo I'll go ahead and say that this change is total bullshit, should be reverted.

Because...?

Also, your claim to a legitimate opinion means nothing to me... I haven't played on EU for a couple years, what with the 180 ping and all.

You could just be trolling though, I can't really tell on this forum.

Offline Zlisch_The_Butcher

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Re: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2013, 01:59:22 am »
-1
Because...?

Also, your claim to a legitimate opinion means nothing to me... I haven't played on EU for a couple years, what with the 180 ping and all.

You could just be trolling though, I can't really tell on this forum.
If you've ever played horsearcher and horsethrower I don't need to state any argument, you'd see my correctness.
1H stab is the fastest, strongest and longest 1H animation. There's no reason NOT to use it in all instances. I don't know if it's OP, but it's boring. 1H used to be fun because you had a fast (left), long (right) and the most devastating attack (stab) and had to choose the best attack for each occasion.

Offline Oggrinsky

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Re: Ranged Cavalry Balance: Horse Throwers and Horse Xbow
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2013, 02:16:55 am »
+1
Eh, alright. What ever you say man.