One-handers became too fast => Overpowered.

[NuberT]

playing just changed. prepatch you could spam 1h+shield and they cant do much I had tempered elegant poleaxe with 98 speed.. now you can attack once then u have to block and get out of their range then u can attack again. I think its quite balanced this way. what annoys me is the fact they need 2-3 hits with their 1h weapons to kill me and i need 2 hits (in the most cases) with my mighty german poleaxe.. so i have to hit their huscarl 4-5 times and them 2 times while they can easily block with shield and i have to block manually..

[Murchad]

1handers are very good at countering people who can't block well. feigning works well against shielers and spamming attacks beyond their range works well.
team up against good shielders just like any good char.
throwing axes work good at weakening/breaking shields.
shielders have a heavy item on them so if you use light armor you can outrun them
shielers have less range than any other class
if a shielder has a throwing weapon he will be weaker in other aspects, if he has throwing weapon out you can dodge him and get close and hit him as he tries to switch to melee weapon.
archers spread out to get to the sides of shield. cav if careful should not die from 1h (1h +throwing can but thats another issue)
I have been trying 1h and i have found it to be a very easy class to use. best thing about shielders is not getting killed by ranged as much.

[Thomek]

The main problem is the "Side Sword".

Everyone runs around with these pirate-ish swords. They are basically 1handed katanas without the 1h nerf.

* 1 less speed than katana at 101.  (3x heirloomed it is like a 2x heirloomed kata..)
* exactly the same length
* 3 less swing damage
* 8 more thrust damage

Paul/Urist. This is absurd.

It might be quite easy to manual-block for you and me but this sword has the option of using a shield.

SHIELD:

* Impregnable to projectiles from 180 something degree arc
* Can hold off 2+ Opponents + ranged at the same time.
* Can stop a couched lance
* Can soak up damage up to 600 hp (Correct me if I'm wrong)
* Simple, right-click block

When the shield breaks, you are still a fully capable force if you can duel..

THEN:

Side Sword   

weight 1.3
requirement 8
spd rtng 101
weapon length 95
swing damage 32, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce

Katana:

weight 1.25
requirement 9
spd rtng 102
weapon length 95
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 18 pierce


1 of the above has wrong stats since they cost about the same. Seriously, you can hit and damage someone more with a wooden stick used with 2 hands than with a sword in 1 hand. Perhaps don't make the katana faster, since it seems to be game breaking for some players, but at least give it the damage of 2 hands on a piece of metal.


Just for reference, the old Elite Spammitar:

Elite Scimitar   
weight 1.25
requirement 7
spd rtng 99
weapon length 100
swing damage 31, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce

[UrLukur]

The main problem is the "Side Sword".

Everyone runs around with these pirate-ish swords. They are basically 1handed katanas without the 1h nerf.

* 1 less speed than katana at 101.  (3x heirloomed it is like a 2x heirloomed kata..)
* exactly the same length
* 3 less swing damage
* 8 more thrust damage

Paul/Urist. This is absurd.

It might be quite easy to manual-block for you and me but this sword has the option of using a shield.

SHIELD:

* Impregnable to projectiles from 180 something degree arc
* Can hold off 2+ Opponents + ranged at the same time.
* Can stop a couched lance
* Can soak up damage up to 600 hp (Correct me if I'm wrong)
* Simple, right-click block

When the shield breaks, you are still a fully capable force if you can duel..

THEN:

Side Sword   

weight 1.3
requirement 8
spd rtng 101
weapon length 95
swing damage 32, cut
thrust damage 26 pierce

Katana:

weight 1.25
requirement 9
spd rtng 102
weapon length 95
swing damage 35, cut
thrust damage 18 pierce


1 of the above has wrong stats since they cost about the same. Seriously, you can hit and damage someone more with a wooden stick used with 2 hands than with a sword in 1 hand. Perhaps don't make the katana faster, since it seems to be game breaking for some players, but at least give it the damage of 2 hands on a piece of metal.


Just for reference, the old Elite Spammitar:

Elite Scimitar   
weight 1.25
requirement 7
spd rtng 99
weapon length 100
swing damage 31, cut
thrust damage 0 pierce

It's problem with heirlooms not with damage. Also, animations for 2h give more reach than animations for 1h. If you cant feel 3 additional base damage then meh.

But i admit,  side sword seems like rapier-ish design which is optimised to thrust, so swing damage may be too high for such type of weapon.

[Thomek]

"If you cant feel 3 additional base damage then meh."

Well let me retort!

"If you can't feel 8 more thrust damage then meh."

Come with some arguments Urlukur.

(And check your eyes, everyone seems to be using side sword these days. It's simply too OP)

[UrLukur]

"If you cant feel 3 additional base damage then meh."

Well let me retort!

"If you can't feel 8 more thrust damage then meh."

Come with some arguments Urlukur.

(And check your eyes, everyone seems to be using side sword these days. It's simply too OP)

Read again my edit. Also, 2h have better lolstab which have average higher speed bonus.

I asked for 1h 95 reach swords to be adjusted in this othe the other side.

[bruce]

* 1 less speed than katana at 101.  (3x heirloomed it is like a 2x heirloomed kata..)

Except it's not as fast because of animations.

* exactly the same length

See above.

* Impregnable to projectiles from 180 something degree arc

With a huscarl.

[Trael]

"If you cant feel 3 additional base damage then meh."

Well let me retort!

"If you can't feel 8 more thrust damage then meh."

Come with some arguments Urlukur.

So lets lower stats of katana and be done with it. Good that you got these excellent points up about how wrongly statted katana is. And im not even much trolling here.

I mostly find out that most 2h spammers hit second or third attack after my block faster that i can with my 1h... could be slow computer and lag as some tell that there is no way no matter what wpf they have... (also i use 99 or so speed 1h weapons)

hmm looked at weights, cant say that katana would be heavy enough to cause stunblock i keep hearing so much (more so when its normally used with agi heavy builds..)

[UrLukur]

I suggest a deal thomek, nerf both. 1 speed 1 damage, 2 in case of side sword. cool?

[Thomek]

2 speed less on the side sword
Keep the damage on the side sword

Since I think main frustration for shielders is the constant armor-bouncing vs way more agile 2 handers. Boosting the speeds near-katana levels only makes manual blocking extremely hard, add to the mix weird pings and imperfect netcode and non-duel-like battles, and you have an OP weapon.

Katana needs a bit more damage comparable to the other swords in the same price range around 37 would be good. (Most of the big swords do 39-43)

The Elite Spammitar was always a mean beast in it's day because of it's speed. The Huscarl+Spammitar was even frowned upon as easymode.. Now 1 handers have faster swords and more damage.

(Edit, I suspect they keep the Kata a bit nerfed because they don't want everyone to use it.. I guess making Ninjas hasn't helped lol! Anyway.. can't we let people play like they want? I think it's way more "mood breaking" with khergit dresses everywhere.. I can accept to keep the katana slightly slightly under the cap, but not like it so obviously underpowered like now. Rather make it more expensive..)

[UrLukur]

2 speed less on the side sword
Keep the damage on the side sword

Since I think main frustration for shielders is the constant armor-bouncing vs way more agile 2 handers. Boosting the speeds near-katana levels only makes manual blocking extremely hard, add to the mix weird pings and imperfect netcode and non-duel-like battles, and you have an OP weapon.

Katana needs a bit more damage comparable to the other swords in the same price range around 37 would be good. (Most of the big swords do 39-43)

The Elite Spammitar was always a mean beast in it's day because of it's speed. The Huscarl+Spammitar was even frowned upon as easymode.. Now 1 handers have faster swords and more damage.

(Edit, I suspect they keep the Kata a bit nerfed because they don't want everyone to use it.. I guess making Ninjas hasn't helped lol! Anyway.. can't we let people play like they want? I think it's way more "mood breaking" with khergit dresses everywhere.. I can accept to keep the katana slightly slightly under the cap, but not like it so obviously underpowered like now. Rather make it more expensive..)

Thomek, Side Sword is rapier type of weapon meant for thrusting. Why you want to nerf it's speed instead of damage ? I said nerf both, but 100 speed for 1h is totally reasonable. It's harder to manually block 2h since it have the initiative.

[balbaroth]

The Elite Spammitar was always a mean beast in it's day because of it's speed. The Huscarl+Spammitar was even frowned upon as easymode.. Now 1 handers have faster swords and more damage.

hey now im still using that old senile weapon ! , my spammy is not ready to be forgotten ! 

   i'll agree now there is alot of weapons that are superior to spammy  even the regular scimi is almost equal to elite spammy now

[XavierX]

If you are doing it right, 1handers really have only one viable slash which is right to left across the body. Right to left is slow and extremely easy to block. Overheads are easy to see coming and slow. My point is simply that one handers need their speed in order to stand a chance against other builds like 2h. If you suck at manual blocking you are still going to suck. period. Nerfing their speed won't save you.

For those recommending a speed nerf I'd say go play a sword and board build. The high end swords and shields cost a ton, and when you add armor on top of that it is not an easy build to play. You will have a hard time killing anyone who knows how to manual block. At best, you will be extremely annoying to sword users who can't break your shield. Because the 1h animations telegraph what move you are going for, feinting and trickery is essential.

Spammitar has a reach of like 110-120 in reality because of the curved blade. needs to be fixed.

[Diomedes]

I play 1h+Knightly Heater and I find using a side sword cheap.  1h is inherently a middle of the road class, with moderate speed, moderate damage, low-moderate reach, all in exchange for longevity and less fear generally.  The side sword has fine length for a 1h but it's too fast for its other stats.  Here's my preferred modifications:

weight 1.3
requirement 7
spd rtng 101
weapon length 93
swing damage 27, cut
thrust damage 33 pierce

Otherwise 1handers are pretty balanced.  The steel pick is potentially OP IMO but not that badly.  The base model for 1handers is patient play and tactical striking, not clearing the field or spamming.  Right now I count myself as one of the more dependable 1-handers in most situations.  Though I rarely top the scoreboards, I kill my fair share of people simply by playing to their weaknesses and by sticking with the team.

[Noble Crassius]

Wait our swords got faster?? When did this happen?

Pre-patch my balanced spammitar had 104 speed...now it has 102(still balanced).. I also have 40 wpf less than I did then..So huh?