First of all, you need 6 WM / 155 wpf to get even a tiny window of steady aiming with a yew bow +3. With only 5 WM / 139 wpf it's impossible to release an arrow before the reticule has started spreading out again.
If you want to get the full potential damage, you need 10 power draw. And if you still want to have that tiny window of steady aiming, you need to be level 34 with 30/18 and spend every single point on WM and PD. So this should be the ultimate damage archer build: Unable to run, unable to strike, unable to take many hits or wear armor without wpf penalty, even unable to properly aim or shoot at a decent rate... Only able to hit like a ballista, right?...
No, the damage is a joke. Since we don't see damage notifications in the chat log, I don't have any numbers, but it's not significantly higher than with a longbow or composite bow. You still need 3+ body hits for anything armored and headshots are about as deadly as with other bows.
I can use a composite or longbow, get only 4 or 5 WM for pinpoint accuracy and better reload speed, plus 8 or 9 PD AND PS for a melee hybrid. So what's the point of the Yew Bow?
Obviously you haven't actually used yew bow and don't know what you're talking about. All I'm saying is it's shit compared to other high-tier bows. It's much less accurate and steady and the damage gets soaked up by any armor. I can 2-shot any ranged? Lol, I can 1/2-shot unarmored peasants even with composite bow, only much quicker and easier. Maybe you get pinpoint accuracy at 21 or 24 agi with yew bow. 18 is just enough to have a steady reticule for 3 micro seconds. Longbow basically does the same amount of damage and is much much faster and more accurate.
Difference between 8 PD composite bow and 10 PD yew longbow (MW ofc) is around 30% in damage.
And yes, this bow is so inaccurate :rolleyes:(click to show/hide)
This is only 4 WM and 120 wpf.
Speed difference between longbow and and yew longbow (both MW) is less than 5% with the same amount of wpf. So I don't know what you're talking about. The amount of damage you can deal with Yew longbow is insane and this thread is like "buff my weapon!!!". If you're not shit and can calculate ballistics+aim properly+have battle awareness (like most of pro archers do) you'll be able to outdamage pretty much every other class in the game.
Yes, except that's bullshit, because I tested this not long ago and, regardless of how much PD you have, you need 6 WM to aim steady with yew bow (below armor penalty threshold). So you're screen is probably taken with a 24 agi build or something. Or maybe you used a +0 bow, not knowing that accuracy decreases with damage... And there is no per se "30% more damage", because raw damage has very little to do with final damage. Where do you even get these numbers from? Why don't you just do some testing with +3 long/yew/composite bow before you keep talking random bs? I am not saying buff my weapon. I am saying compared to (+3) composite and longbow, yew bow is complete garbage, because it is and I do know what I'm talking about.
edit: just tested again and can confirm one more time that while you have pinpoint accuracy with composite bow +3 for 1 or 2 seconds at 139 wpf / 5 WM (similar with longbow +3), you can't release an arrow with yew bow +3 before the reticule has started spreading out again... just like I said before.
What a clown. I used 30-12 build with 10 PD and 4 WM with +3 Yew Longbow on screenshot. There is no point for me to fake the screenshot. And ofc I didn't get numbers out of my ass and never did it in the past.
I don't think there is any point to continue this discussion because you exactly don't know what you're talking about.
Well, I suggested you to come and prove your point but both you and Xynox just kept bashing me with like "you don't know shit, I have access to source code".
As I've claimed it earlier: the release point and the tightest crosshair are both bound to animation end. So technically it's possible to release the arrow with closest crosshair (even though in this case there is almost no possible time window to do it). Here's a screencast proof. Exactly the same build and conditions I used for the last screenshot. I even suggested to permaban me if there is actually a code that changed it from native yet you still don't even want to discuss.
If hitting a barrel (player) from like half map range is not enough for you then I don't even know what accuracy you want. A couple of first arrows went higher because I realised that I aim too high and moved one pixel lower.(click to show/hide)
I'm not gonna comment on the bashing, except maybe "lol". I didn't claim to have access to anything, but I also didn't make any claims that would require me to prove them with any kind of source code. I just claim that you can't release an arrow with yew bow before the reticule has started getting bigger again, unless you are at least 27/15 or 24/18, which is something that everyone can see for themselves. You, on the other hand, claim that this is only a visual effect and the arrow really gets released exactly at minimum crosshair size, even though it doesn't look that way. Unfortunetely, you don't have the source code nor any other proof, so you're just talking.
I'm not sure what your video is supposed to prove... that you can hit a stationary barrel from some distance about 50% of the time? Lol, wow. I guess yew bow isn't so bad after all! Only when fighting moving targets, it's a bit trickier. When you have zero time to aim before releasing an arrow, no accurate window at all (regardless whether accuracy is still at its maximum or already worse), you have to fire immediately when reloading is finished. There's no real telling when precisely this will be. Like you said, there's a number of dead frames at the end of the animation and you basically have to guess. The problem is that milliseconds matter here and there's no way to precisely match your own aim with the release, so your shots will always either be unaimed (because you aimed too early) or inaccurate (aimed too late). You can't control your shots without at least a very small, stable window of aiming.
And that is why your point isn't just unproven but also irrelevant.
With only 5 WM / 139 wpf it's impossible to release an arrow before the reticule has started spreading out again.
No, the damage is a joke.
My video shows that it's possible even with 4 WM and 121 wpfDespite the shitty frame rate in your video (intentional?), you can still see the crosshair spreading out a little on releasing the arrow. This means there is no window for steady aiming at all. So once again you're producing verbal diarrhea and I'm kinda sick of it.
It's not true, you hit like comparable to heavy crossbow with that build. And it's the most powerful bow build possible.
And your damage calculations are just nonsense. If we still had damage messages in the log, anyone could see it. But as it happens, a balancer told me not long ago that he does about 1 or 2 more damage with MW yew bow and 10 PD than with MW longbow and 9 PD against medium armor. So there's your massive damage, lol.
IMO right now it's exactly the same situation: nobody uses AGI archery because there is no trade-off.well mate after lower level changes str archer can be deadly but it's point over investment, i don't have time just check forum about agi/balanced/str archers and u will find really good arguments from fucking fully dedicated archers, still now after level cap's 33 or 34 balanced archers are the best
PROs of being STRcher:
- higher damage (i don't even think there is any sense to compare it)
- better armor (with your 30 strength you can wear 45 body armor with NO wpf penalty at all)
- high hp (your 30 str build has 65 hp, even wearing cloth armor you're only possible to oneshot MW arbalest kill on point blank, if wearing any better armor or higher distance - you never get oneshot, you also can't get couchlanced in most cases so it's just ultimate tanky build)
- better melee capabilities (even having 0 PS, 30 strength is already a good enough factor to be able to give a fight)
PROs of being AGIcher:
- basically no valueable PROs
- higher release speed? The difference is so small that it's not worth to mention
- steadier aim? Still not that useful
- better accuracy? STRchers have almost pinpoint accuracy anyway
- kiting capabilities? backpedalling with holding an attack is almost the same speed, jumping distance is the same
My video shows that it's possible even with 4 WM and 121 wpf
It's not true, you hit like comparable to heavy crossbow with that build. And it's the most powerful bow build possible.
In your video you're naked, doesn't that have a pretty big effect on the reticle size?
You can't even 3-hit most guys on the battlefield though. And longbow requires just as many hits.Considering how many one hit kills I've seen from that bow by people getting hit in the head I'd say it'd be pretty damned easy to 2 hit someone. Obviously it depends on said players build but hypothitcally we'll say there's a balanced build wearing medium armour, that person will die in 2 shots and 1 shot to the head. I've been hit in the head as a tincan and had over 60% of my health taken off. Salad Forks idea was a great one, remove the bonus you get from hitting people in the head, far too powerful.
Considering how many one hit kills I've seen from that bow by people getting hit in the head I'd say it'd be pretty damned easy to 2 hit someone. Obviously it depends on said players build but hypothitcally we'll say there's a balanced build wearing medium armour, that person will die in 2 shots and 1 shot to the head. I've been hit in the head as a tincan and had over 60% of my health taken off. Salad Forks idea was a great one, remove the bonus you get from hitting people in the head, far too powerful.Actually I've rarely used yew bow on battle, mostly on DTV a few times where shooting barrels and shooting bots are pretty close. I know bots have higher strength than normal, but 2 hits are never enough against anything but light armor. I guess 2 shots from yew bow might do in battle against someone without any IF. And still, I bet that >90% of the time a longbow requires just as many hits, while being much better to handle.
I'm no archer, but I'm guessing that 9PD builds will give you more bang for your buck unless you can achieve 5-6 WM like your post indicates. 10 PD is pretty excessive and it's up to debate how many pros/cons they get depending on how much you value mobility. As you said, an 8 PD build will come with more quality of life benefits.I guess part of the problem may be the ranged damage equations themselves. But the least that could be done is to adjust the accuracies. Bows, as most ppl know, become less accurate with higher damage. Compared to longbow yew bow has 2 more damage (of questionable usefullness...) and one less accuracy, which explains why it is so ridiculously inaccurate. Usually higher damage should come with slightly higher accuracy as partial compensation, not lower accuracy, because that is twice the punishment. Longbow has the highest accuracy of all the bows by the way. I guess you could call that OP. There's simply no real "niche" for yew bow next to longbow. So either even out the accuracies or give yew bow 2-3 more damage. Or just remove it from the game, because it has no real role to play other than being an inferior version of the longbow. Turn it into throwable cabbages and give out exchanges.
Not sure what you want exactly in terms of specific changes. Against your average 65-75hp infantry, going from 3 to 2 body shots requires an astronomical damage increase, so it makes sense that you'll be somewhere in-between most of the time even with 10PD. Fortunately, they're not at 100% health all the time, allowing you to 2-shot anyone with some chip damage easily.
I respecced one of my alts to 10 PD build with yew longbow and tried it out both on DTV and battle server. I must say pretty much the opposite. Since I was playing on really low levels (starting from 24 and up to 29) and I had 30 str with 10 PD from the start - I can basically assure you that 9 agility and 3 WM (100 wpf) is perfectly enough for this bow to perform well.You, sir, are an amazing archer. You have proven the point of being amazing beyond any reasonable doubt. Now we just have to equip you with a longbow and there will be no stopping you.
Most of the screenshots made with 2 WM and I had a message of too low wpf. Which proves my point even more.(click to show/hide)
Possible build extension I see:
lvl30:
30-9
10 PD, 3 Ath, 3 WM, 7 PS
lvl31:
10 PS
lvl32:
3 IF OR 10 AGI & 1 IF
lvl33:
6 IF OR 11 AGI
lvl 34:
9 IF OR 12 AGI & 4 WM, 4 Ath
You, sir, are an amazing archer. You have proven the point of being amazing beyond any reasonable doubt. Now we just have to equip you with a longbow and there will be no stopping you.
edit: although I disagree about the 100 wpf requirement for yew bow. I think any more than 3 wpf is actually wasted.
I find it enough. That is my crosshair size with 100 wpf.Because you can't release your arrow at that crosshair size. And it looks fake, too, just like your reasoning. As it so happens I just tried that trash item yew bow again with my current composite hybrid build 24/18 with 8 PD and 134 archery. It sucks so bad. Seriously, lol, that bow is so fricking bad and inaccurate. Even with that build I can't hold a steady aim for even a microsecond. If you're cool with barely being able to hit the general direction, I guess you're not much for aiming anyway. I've gone through explaining what effect the lack of a missing window for steady aiming has in detail and I'm not gonna repeat myself. You see, I don't really care how well you perform with yew bow, because the question is not "is yew bow usable to score kills with?". The question isn't "is strength archery OP over agi archery?" either. It's "is yew bow underpowered compared to other high tier bows, especially longbow?". Which, yes, it is. Why don't you compare crosshairs of longbow and yew bow for a change? Wouldn't that be the more obvious choice? lol...(click to show/hide)
And that's my main with 179 xbow wpf and Arbalest(click to show/hide)
As you can see, my main with Arbalest has a bigger crosshair so why would I have problems with a tighter one?