cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: AxeAxe on August 12, 2015, 07:11:35 pm

Title: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: AxeAxe on August 12, 2015, 07:11:35 pm
Hi Guys!
I wonder if you could help me find the best build / weapon/ playstyle. I'm new to cRPG, not new to M&B. I want to use melee weapons.

I've tried different combos and equipment (1h+shield,2h - sword, 2h - polearm) and so far I found that I can block effectively both with and wihout shield. I can withstand 20-30 seconds against decent players without a shield, but what the problem is - I  can't attack/counterattack. Once I try to attack - I'm dead in a few seconds. Either enemies block my hit's or I don't reach them with a weapon, than they counter-attack and I'm not able to put block in time.

Perhaps you could advise the best weapon/playstyle to learn to land some hits?
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Utrakil on August 12, 2015, 07:21:09 pm
change your playstile. Stay with some good players. let them ocupy the enemies attention. go in land a hit and go out of range again.
 If you find yourselve in a 1vs1 situation retreat while blocking untill someone helps.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: AxeAxe on August 12, 2015, 11:13:36 pm
Thank you! Following other players makes me useful to the team and gives more chances to survive until the end of the round. However, I don't master my skill since I hit and run. Can I do something to master attack skills in 1v1 fights? Maybe it's easier to land hits with high speed or high length weapons? Or should I try vice versa and get massive damage weapon and try to get "1 lucky random hit"?

P.S. Your tactic really works:) By the way, one more noob question - what is the best 2h weapon? or at least what is the logic here? Do hybrin (throwing+melee or xbow+melee) work or it's not really good?

PP.SS. What is the chivarly role in the game? Everyone I saw were just solo players trying to coach single target standing outside of main fight or charging alone into a lot of enemies and simply dying.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Ikarus on August 13, 2015, 12:59:55 am
Quote
What is the chivarly role in the game?
as a footsoldier, stick to the team and help them as good as possible

as an archer/crossbowman/thrower, other ranged classes and/or cav are the primary target, then target footsoldiers

as cav, wait until the enemy is in a fight and attack him from behind/bump him, save teammates by bumping enemies

Quote
Do hybrin (throwing+melee or xbow+melee) work or it's not really good?
hybrids work well, as long as you only mix up two classes (for example a shielder/thrower or 2h/pole cav), a mixture of three or more classes mostly ends up in being sorta okay in a lot of disciplines but not really getting any kills in the end

Quote
what is the best 2h weapon?
phew, that´s a hard one...you could try out longswords/bastard swords if you´re into speed or greatswords if you´re into slow, ranged attacks. Any 2h here that can give me a hand with this question? I´m mostly a xbow :x

In general, I would make myself a Skip-the-Fun-character and try out different builds. You gotta find out with which class or build you´re most comfortable with, then I´d go for leveling the main char :)
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Kenda on August 13, 2015, 02:37:17 pm
I'd probably give the Swiss Longsword or the Flambard the Award for best 2hander if I had to pick one. I prefer the Danish Greatsword personally, it's quite slow but with great range and damage.

Paying attention to the range of your weapon and doing hold attacks is a good way to never miss a swing, remember to keep calm and observe your opponents actions so you dont get spamed.

Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: AxeAxe on August 13, 2015, 10:44:49 pm
Thanks guys!
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Casul on August 13, 2015, 11:09:43 pm
I prefere Claymore, decent speed and very strong swing damage.

As already said, stay with the team as long as possible, dont solo-rush, dont stop running (easy target for ranged) and try to play as "a helpful hand" for both surviving and kills/score.

Also, atm I play a STR based Tincan + Great Maul on Eu1, as long as you stay with the group you can be extremly helpfull because Great Mauls can crush through up-blocks/shields. You can tank a lot hits and have good chances to get kills. If you have at least basic blocking skills I would give this class a try.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: BlackxBird on August 14, 2015, 12:39:14 am
You wanna become a good player?
I can tell you what I did to become a "good" player.

I:

Watched better players than me what they are doing.

After every death I asked myself what I did wrong, especially as cav this is so damn fucking important. Doing a mistake once is okay, doing it twice is retarded.

Tryhard. fucking tryhard. There are better players than u, and they are trying to fight u? TRY IT! DON'T BACKPEDAL AND BLOCK. TRY IT! U gotta get some balls before u are actually sucessfull in this game, cuz when you are finally able to block against like 2 ppl the same time and u can handle a gank of 3 u are good and u will like the game even more. It's worth the invested time.

BUT:
U don't learn by running and surviving. FUCKING DIE. As often as possible. You got 2 hp? When you are finally good and u know u are dead after a glance of a stick and u have to fight 2 at the same time, and u do it, it feels better than everything else!


For ur build and ur weapon.

U like the style of a weapon/armor/whatever?

Buy it. A 60 dmg is not as good as a 30 dmg weapon when u feel good with it.
The first thing of becoming better is getting a nice sytle, ur own style. If u feel good, u play good.

Me for example. I can't really block when I'm not in plate, but when I am I do block like a cheater.

Notice the little things, and play with better players. Get a clan or something, or a friend. Playing with ppl you like will make things even easier.

And at the point the game is not fun for u anymore stop it for like 20 minutes and come back again. Don't GTX, It will destroy u at one point. I went through a big rage period also xD.



So now how you will fight better is:

Get a skip the fun and go on duel. Get a danish gs and than start duels. Start with a 24 21 build.

Than u will see what u need. You are too weak, you are too slow? You wanna be moving faster, but you're fine with ur hit speed?

Change ur build and armor when u feel you need something else. If you think that 124 range is actually not needed or even too much, change it.

Find your own way. Nobody can actually teach you how to become a good player without investing atleast 10 hours :D

Try hard, if it doesn't work, try harder. If that doesn't work join krems.

Edit: I almost forgot my most important rule as newby: Never show the enemy that u are afraid/worse than him.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Halk on August 14, 2015, 02:54:32 am
Just a couple of tips for fighting one on one:

- Dont back away from the enemy, try to stay within his reach, otherwise you will miscalculate his reach and get hit. Also backing away doesnt do you any good so instead, try to circle the enemy, always strafe to left or right

- Try to be faced forwards to the enemy all the time

- Block until you hear the damn swords colliding! Pay attention to it, most people fall for hold attacks too easily

- Easiest way to get a hit through in the beginning is just holding your attack for a while before releasing it (see the previous tip) and while holding it, try to circle the enemy and make him uncomfortable (you can also wiggle your mouse abit at this point for more efficiency)

- After getting comfortable with the basics, start experimenting with the mechanics, throw your mouse around and switch directions until you find a nice feinting-pattern and then master it (you can watch some duelists to get the idea of what types of feints are effective)
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: HappyPhantom on August 14, 2015, 03:38:54 am
Turn into your swings; hit connects faster.

Look at the ground and turn into your swings; look like a spaz, but hit even faster because of the angle created by looking at ground (amiright?). e.g. abuse mechanics.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: BlackxBird on August 14, 2015, 07:18:45 am
Just a couple of tips for fighting one on one:

- Dont back away from the enemy, try to stay within his reach, otherwise you will miscalculate his reach and get hit. Also backing away doesnt do you any good so instead, try to circle the enemy, always strafe to left or right

- Try to be faced forwards to the enemy all the time

- Block until you hear the damn swords colliding! Pay attention to it, most people fall for hold attacks too easily

- Easiest way to get a hit through in the beginning is just holding your attack for a while before releasing it (see the previous tip) and while holding it, try to circle the enemy and make him uncomfortable (you can also wiggle your mouse abit at this point for more efficiency)

- After getting comfortable with the basics, start experimenting with the mechanics, throw your mouse around and switch directions until you find a nice feinting-pattern and then master it (you can watch some duelists to get the idea of what types of feints are effective)

oh spamwhore, just give him ur macros, mine look worse than urs and we both know he won't tell anybody... :PP
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Ikarus on August 14, 2015, 08:03:14 am
oh spamwhore, just give him ur macros, mine look worse than urs and we both know he won't tell anybody... :PP

yeh, make a dropbox-folder, spamwhore  :mrgreen:
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: AxeAxe on August 14, 2015, 04:32:21 pm
Thanks guys, very useful! And what is the purpose of secondary mode in swords, making them polearms? Should I stick to str or agi build in the beginning?
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Casul on August 14, 2015, 04:43:45 pm
If you use STR builds with a lot of heavy armor you will be slow in running speed and also weapon speed, but I prefere this class because you tank a lot more hits and you obviously do a lot more dmg each hit, I seriously eat arrows and most throwing weapons for breakfast.

I like agi builds for 1h + shield with medium-light armor, as agi based 2h/pole I would use medium armor, its just no fun if you loose 50% health with 1 arrow (with light/cloth armor).

2handers switching to polearms can be good for stabbing, most 2handers in polearm mode have far stronger stab damage (only effective with polearm wpf) AND you can stop cavalry but I never really use it and stick to the 2hander mode.

If you go for a 2h/pole class I would stick to STR tincan in the beginning with a lot iron flesh. You just dont die within 2 arrows and as long as you stay with the group you can be a decent helpful hand, great maul/long maul in a group is the literally greatest thing in this game imo. great fun
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Gryph_Hawkshade on August 14, 2015, 05:47:50 pm
To give you an idea of actual damage you are outputting.

24 STR is weak in this game.  With less than 44 cut you will glance on people with greater than 62 Armor (unless hitting them in the head or toes (not legs))
Meaning you will maybe do 1-4 dmg.   Weapon Weight plays a factor in the calculation.  If you have 21 or less Str you should consider using weapons with pierce or blunt.

I've been playing for a year, and ive gotten decent... not good, not great... but decent.

Your strongest weapon is your Mind.  Holding your strikes until in range for longer weapons will get you most kills in gank situations. Following teammates and waiting to step around and overhead enemies after they attack ur teammates can get some e-z kills.

Don't chase enemies, or run straight towards the battle. Most veteran players can assess whether their team will be able to win a round in the first 30 seconds. Some maps are gonna be stacked, recognize that and find the best way to capitalize. 

Keep a fair distance behind zerging teammates.    Take a second when you die to take a look at someones name, recognize the people who get the best scores and get an idea of their playstyle, because defeating different fightstyles requires you employ different tactics in most cases.

There are alot of things you can do right or wrong, and the situation can go from good to shit with a few small mistakes.
Most hits you will score on the "people who try" will occur after you block them and quick strike back.  Alot of really good weapons arent good for beating people 1v1.

For polearm my fav 1v1 weapons are the Bec De Corbin, for 2hander I like the 'Two Handed Sword'.
Some players thou are just gonna hands down beat you, they are able to setup kicks or out Spam/Chamber(strike in the same direction as you at the same time leaving you open to be hit).

Ultimately my recommendation, if you really wanna make an impact on the battlefield this early on in your soldiering career. 
Shoot for 27 Str-18 Agi and use a Morningstar for a couple Generations.   9 PS - 6 Ath - 6 WM - 3IF  155 2h-wpf
Use one of the of the most expensive helmets, Plate Armor above 50, Mid-Heavy Gloves and something in the Mail Boots range.
And if you chase/run towards enemies, be ready to block first then attack.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: AxeAxe on August 14, 2015, 06:05:13 pm
Thanks! Is there a way to withstand in 1v1 situation with Morningstar or it's only for "step behind while they're occupied with your teammates" weapon?
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Gryph_Hawkshade on August 14, 2015, 06:22:02 pm
The morningstar is fast enough to block and follow-up attack on almost all but the most rediculous of 1v1 spammers.   It is not ideally suited for 1v1, but most 1v1 weapons cant take out people in 1 hit the way a morningstar can.  It has good range on the side strikes, and its length does not slow down your maneauver speed like some of the longer weapons.  (The speed rating on weapons is relative to their length, and in a few cases not completely accurate, the longer the weapon the less ur char accelerates into action and moves after attacking)

A good dueling weapon if your 2h is the Two Handed Sword or the Longsword(I feel like the longsword falls a tad short on the reach, and it feels as if its been nerfed to be less spammy these days, I could be wrong), Don't fall prey to the spam game thou, the people who learn to spam start thinking their good at 1v1 and then when they go to fight some of the real pros they end up getting kicked, out-maneuvered(since spammers can be backpedal trapped/dub-steppd) and destroyed / other.

I recommend the Morningstar for battle, because it is one of the most damaging weapons has surprisingly good reach and it does allow you to maneuver and block well.  I've seen some people put the 2h axes to good use also.

Practice quickly blocking, immediately after your swing animation ends, it allows your character to attack with another strike sooner if you time it right, and in some instances glitches up the following attack animation to display as if coming from a diff direction.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: BlackxBird on August 14, 2015, 09:37:56 pm
morningstar is actually pretty hard to play. If you are a "newby" don't play with high dmg weapons, they are slow and short and if u hit teammates u do relly much dmg and the unbalanced shit is reeeaally hard to manage, oh and btw morningstar is a siege weapon, not battle.

If I wanna find out what build I should play I start with 21 21. Than I play with that some time. Than after some time I decide if I need str or agi.
Than with ur next gen/respec go more in the diretion u want. If you feel too slow, get a 18 27 n'stuff. Nobody can tell u what build u should take!
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: AxeAxe on August 19, 2015, 11:02:55 pm
I prefere Claymore, decent speed and very strong swing damage.

As already said, stay with the team as long as possible, dont solo-rush, dont stop running (easy target for ranged) and try to play as "a helpful hand" for both surviving and kills/score.

Also, atm I play a STR based Tincan + Great Maul on Eu1, as long as you stay with the group you can be extremly helpfull because Great Mauls can crush through up-blocks/shields. You can tank a lot hits and have good chances to get kills. If you have at least basic blocking skills I would give this class a try.

Hi again! Your advice for long maul is amazing, ability to crush blocks and shields really make sense for me. And it doesn't require no-brain spamming which I'm bad at. Could you advise some suitable build for lvl35? Maybe there is stat which affects block crush chance?
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Daunt_Flockula on August 19, 2015, 11:16:47 pm
Good job Cassi. Good job. You created a monster :lol:
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on August 19, 2015, 11:35:03 pm
A good level 35 build for mauler IMO:
24/18
8ps/8if/6wm/6if
all wpf points into polearm
This gives you 4 left over skill points that you could put into throwing/shield/riding whatever tickles your pickle to have some more variety. Throwing would be fun to throw shit at people before you bonk their head, shield is good to be able to block arrows as you advance, riding so you steal peoples horsies(always hilarious).

Some alternate builds:

27/18
9ps/9if/6wm/2ath
More damage, more HP, but slower than the listed build above. With the increased strength you will be able to crush through easier.

24/21
8ps/8if/7wm/3ath
This build will give you the same tankiness/damage of the 24/18 but you'll be able to swing faster with the added Weapon Master. However you'll have slower foot work because of the lower athletics. 24/21 is the general tryhard build nowadays.

Other ones that are fun:
30/12
10ps/10if/4ath/4wm with 4 left over points to put into whatever you feel like, same as below you'll need to time swings well but you're a fucking tank.

36/6
12ps/12if/2ath/2wm with 4 left over. You will swing very slow so you will have to time you swings very correctly.


These are all builds for level 35. If you're new to the game I recommend getting to 35 and then retiring and not trying to get to level 36 until like generation 5+. A great way to get XP is to do strategus battles.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: BlackxBird on August 20, 2015, 03:31:36 pm
Just a couple of tips for fighting one on one:
- Try to be faced forwards to the enemy all the time

This is what I told all the new players I teached and all the oldmy old friends who do the same mistakes again and again. Basicly the most important duelist rule^^

A good level 35 build for mauler IMO:
24/18
8ps/8if/6wm/6if
all wpf points into polearm
This gives you 4 left over skill points that you could put into throwing/shield/riding whatever tickles your pickle to have some more variety. Throwing would be fun to throw shit at people before you bonk their head, shield is good to be able to block arrows as you advance, riding so you steal peoples horsies(always hilarious).

Some alternate builds:

27/18
9ps/9if/6wm/2ath
More damage, more HP, but slower than the listed build above. With the increased strength you will be able to crush through easier.

24/21
8ps/8if/7wm/3ath
This build will give you the same tankiness/damage of the 24/18 but you'll be able to swing faster with the added Weapon Master. However you'll have slower foot work because of the lower athletics. 24/21 is the general tryhard build nowadays.

Other ones that are fun:
30/12
10ps/10if/4ath/4wm with 4 left over points to put into whatever you feel like, same as below you'll need to time swings well but you're a fucking tank.

36/6
12ps/12if/2ath/2wm with 4 left over. You will swing very slow so you will have to time you swings very correctly.


These are all builds for level 35. If you're new to the game I recommend getting to 35 and then retiring and not trying to get to level 36 until like generation 5+. A great way to get XP is to do strategus battles.

played all of those builds and hated them pretty much (but the 24 21!). Especially 27 18.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Casul on August 20, 2015, 05:27:18 pm
36/6
12ps/12if/2ath/2wm with 4 left over. You will swing very slow so you will have to time you swings very correctly.


iirc you wont have enough wpf in comparison to your PS with 6 agi only (each PS needs some points spend in wpf to get the effective dmg bonus, otherwise you will deal far far less damage), go for 9 at least and you should be fine with nearly maximum damage output.

anyway.
I play as 33/15 on lvl 37 but I believe 30/15 on 35 is pretty much the same (also only 1 HP less than me), only a few STR heros out there who can block my overheads and even when I change to my Claymore 2h (lower server population) I honestly do very well though I really suck at blocking. I could never win a duel against 50% of the server but I guess I found my play style and actually feel more like a supporter than a solo player


also my mercs/vanguards application: Can I join now pls, no photoshop I swer
#graphics nerd
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: BlackxBird on August 20, 2015, 06:02:20 pm

iirc you wont have enough wpf in comparison to your PS with 6 agi only (each PS needs some points spend in wpf to get the effective dmg bonus, otherwise you will deal far far less damage), go for 9 at least and you should be fine with nearly maximum damage output.

anyway.
I play as 33/15 on lvl 37 but I believe 30/15 on 35 is pretty much the same (also only 1 HP less than me), only a few STR heros out there who can block my overheads and even when I change to my Claymore 2h (lower server population) I honestly do very well though I really suck at blocking. I could never win a duel against 50% of the server but I guess I found my play style and actually feel more like a supporter than a solo player
But that only counts for 2H. For pole the best dmg u get is with a pierce weapon and a balanced build. If they get full speed bonus (what is actually possible) u will go almost one hit by a normal spear.

also my mercs/vanguards application: Can I join now pls, no photoshop I swer
#graphics nerd
(click to show/hide)

Yes noticed that too with 36:6. you are damn slow, don't do dmg and actually you don't get as much hits as u should get. 33:12 with max IF is the most dmg dealing build I ever had. Well if you go 38 and have almost full IF with 33 15 it's probably better, but for 35/36/37 I found no build that does more dmg. Btw I played with morningstar and longsword and 2 hitted everyone.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: AxeAxe on August 21, 2015, 12:36:36 am
even when I change to my Claymore 2h (lower server population)

Is longmaul too bad for 1v1 which can occur with low population?
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on August 21, 2015, 07:48:18 am
Is longmaul too bad for 1v1 which can occur with low population?
For a starter, yes. I've seen Saint_Joan_of_Arc go 100:10 on duel with just a long maul. Just my opinion though
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: LEKIS on August 21, 2015, 09:00:53 am
Step 1: Learn to block first
Step 2: Do not rage
Step 3: A: Set the pace when fighting, take controll. B: act confident
Step 4: Hold attack
Step 5: You should start with a strength build for extra HP and after a while switch to AGI. (EDIT: if you want)
step 6: the most important
(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: BlackxBird on August 21, 2015, 09:06:59 am
For a starter, yes. I've seen Saint_Joan_of_Arc go 100:10 on duel with just a long maul. Just my opinion though

long maul is damn op in duel.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Casul on August 21, 2015, 10:17:44 am
Is longmaul too bad for 1v1 which can occur with low population?

I dont play polearms but I guess long maul is fine for everything, though slowest weapon ingame?  (after rock on stick)
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: BlackxBird on August 21, 2015, 10:28:00 am
I dont play polearms but I guess long maul is fine for everything, though slowest weapon ingame?  (after rock on stick)

the great lances are slower, and it's only by one faster than the heavy lance. but actually yes, slowest weapon ingame, but the stun u do with it makes it kinda ok again^^
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Mr.K. on August 29, 2015, 01:01:58 pm
From what I've found is that one of the most important things to learn is to understand the battlefield. Always* look around you with the freelook key! Cavalry will try to backstab you, a sneaky xbower will try to get an easy shot on you while you run in a straight line. Make sure you know where everyone is and stick with the group until you're confident enough that you can beat people 1v1, no matter if they're on foot or on a horse. In melee group fights, try to get inside the opponents head. Think who they are fighting and attack them when they don't expect it.

One more thing that's helped me a lot is play every class there is. That helps you understand their weaknesses and use those to your advantage. Cavalry can be outreached or outmaneuvered, maul overheads can be spammed (every time, just try it), longer weapon overheads can be sidestepped, pikes can be facehugged (longspears can't) and so on. The different mechanics you'll eventually learn with trial and error.

*=sometimes I get killed by looking behind me and running into an enemy in front of me. Don't do that. visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: BlackxBird on August 29, 2015, 05:57:09 pm
*=sometimes I get killed by looking behind me and running into an enemy in front of me. Don't do that. visitors can't see pics , please register or login


I get killed by cav more often when I look behind me than when I don't use the ^ key.
Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: Lord_Carlos on August 31, 2015, 09:28:51 am
 I would say that, fast weapons are good for beginners Like Heavy bastard or 2handed Warha

I hate Cav with Lance, but they do so mutch damage. :rolleyes:  :shock:

Most of my deaths are by an Archer or an crossbowman.

My playstyle is like an berserker :D :D :D :D :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: or sometiemes like an ambuscher. :twisted: :twisted:

I think you will find a good playstyle.

PS: Sry for my english is rusty :D

Title: Re: How to learn to attack and not to die ?:)
Post by: ecorcheur_brokar on September 01, 2015, 01:04:03 pm
For a start, the best is to focus on only one class, no hybrid, otherwise you will lose important skill point usefull for melee.

I think the best to start is 1h shield, so you can focus on counter attack without having to mind too much about blocking. Then you can switch to 2h or polearm.

Then to have some fun while learning fast, the best is to join a clan so you can speak with someone while duelling and he can give you advice during the duel. And as you look like someone cool, you should have no trouble finding a clan.  :wink:

When on EU1, you should try to learn teamplay as much as individual skill. Teamplay is a lot more of fun imo and you can quickly get good at it. For exemple try to protect your teammate from enemy hits, see where you should place yourself to easily land hit on the enmy and not bother your mate,etc.