cRPG

cRPG => Beginner's Help and Guides => Guides => Topic started by: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 04:23:21 pm

Title: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 04:23:21 pm

As a hi lvl archer with some experience (about 3 years) I want to tell you at first: to be a good archer you have to find a cunt in your heart and follow him in game ;)
That is a guide for pure archers, but hybrids can probably find something for them also.
Leveling up an archer from lvl 1 to 27 is a road through hell. IMO archer is a hardest class to lvl it up from lvl 1, because you are almost useless on first 20 lvl (you can block, be a live target or shoot at medium distances horses or houses)

1.   BULIDS

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Your main skill is Power Draw. It’s based on STR. Every 3 STR allows you to increase PD by 1. PD increase your dmg and decrease wpf.
You should give you char no more than 18 STR (6 PD). IMO AGI archers are better than STR ones. It’s better to shoot a bit faster and more accurate than hit a bit harder.
Put as many points as you can in Weapon Mastery and put all weapon points in Archery.
7 Athletics is enough (I have 7 Ath on lvl 34). It lets you to run away from some enemies and dodge cav as well. If you have some spare pints put them in Power strike instead of Iron Flesh. It’s better to have some melee abilities than 6 or 4 HP more. With some PS you won’t glance all the time on your enemies and deal some dmg (or at least stun and interrupt enemies).
I tried few builds before I go hi lvl but best bulid for lvl 30 for me was 18/21:
Power Strike:  3
Power Draw:   6
Ath/WM:          7

For Horn Bow only it's also good to try 15/24:
Power Strike:  2
Power Draw:   5
Ath/WM:          8

I sugget to put all wpf into Archery but you can do whatever you want.

You can also try something else, you hav a free choice in this game :)

2.   ARMOR

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Max armor weight that won’t decrease your WPF is 10. You have to remember that there are weight multipliers.
Head armor X2      Hand armor x4       Foot and body armor x1
It’s good to have some head armor. Without helmet you will die in 1 hit from almost everyone (only peasant won’t kill you in one hit). With helmet you can even survive headshots from weak bows or x-bows in rain.
Wearing light gloves is a good option, because they give good protection for low upkeep.
There are lots of good looking outfits, so everyone should something that fits to him.
For example atm I'm using:
Straw hat                                Weight 0 x 2=0
Red Brigadine over aketon         Weight 10.6 x 1=10.6
Mail Mittens                              Weight 0.3 x 4=1.2
Green and purple Hose              Weight 0.1 x 1=0.1
Total weight = 11.9 so I'm  loosing some WPF because of gear weigth.
It looks like this and works quite good for me

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Decent outfit for an archer can also looks like this :)

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3.     WEAPONS

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Bows – There are 3 bows in c-rpg that IMO infantry archers should concentrate on:
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Horn bow, Rus bow and Long bow. Those are deadly bows mostly used in strat battles for pew-pewing enemies to death.
4th one,Yumi, is bow made for HA and I can't tell much about it because I wasn't using it at all.
Horn bow is a 5 PD 1 slot fast and accurate bow, from bows I mentioned have lowest dmg.
Rus bow is 6 PD 2 slot bow a bit slower than horn bow and with bigger dmg.
Long bow is 6 pd 2 slot bow with highest dmg. It’s also slowest and hardest to use bow in this game because of its speed.
For beginners I suggest to use horn or rus bow, long bow is a bit harder to use because of its speed. You should thy them out in battle and choose one you like the most.
Arrows
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There are 2 kinds of them:
•   Cut dmg arrows – there are few types of them but differences are:  amount arrows per quiver, amount of dmg that they add and upkeep (higher dmg = higher upkeep)
They are good against light horses and light armored enemies, but they are bad against plated horses and hi armored players
•   Bodkin arrows – have highest upkeep, but they change your bow in deadly weapon dealing pierce dmg. With those arrows you can easily kill every target you can hit, no matter is he a guy in shirt or in plate armor. If you have enough gold for upkeep, use them all the time.
Side weapons (melee)
As a pure archer you should take melee weapon in your hand only when you are forced to do that. Everyone should be able to block few hits waiting for help.
If you will look carefully in shop you will find pretty many  0 slot 1 handed weapons. There are few crappy, low upkeep weapons mostly for blocking like:
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 If you don’t care about upkeep you can choose some nice swords.
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Not long time ago they also add a blunt 0slot weapon
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I'm using MW Short Arming Sword and even with 2 PS I'm able to kill someone in melee with it  :mrgreen:
 But if you want to have low upkeep I suggest to use a pickaxe. I was using it for a long time. That’s the only 0 slot pierce weapon for swinging. With it even with low PS you can wound guys in good armor. If you are going to use horn bow, you will have 1 slot for weapon, so happy shopping.
There are few 1h that you can use in 2h mode (as a secondary mode): Military Sickle, Fighting Axe and Langes Messer. So if you like 2h animations try them out :)

4.   Shooting, choosing targets

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Your biggest enemy is other ranged. Remember that and shoot them when you can. Especially Horse Archers and Horse X-bow guys, they are the most annoying.  Your team mates going to thank you for that and sometimes will protect you.

Cut and pierce dmg arrows - what targets to shoot with it?
If you are using bodkin arrows you can shoot anything you want, because of pierce dmg.   
If you are using cut dmg arrows you should concentrate more on light armored targets like light horses, agi runners, ranged and ninjas. Shoot at plated guys if you have no other targets. It’s important to kill enemies in shortest possible time.

Running points :)
Killing horses is good way to gain lots of points, and it’s really helpful because lots of cav guys are good only mounted, on ground they are easy target for your team. Especially shoot at mounted ranged ei horse crossbows and horse archers. If you will do that, some ppl will start defending you, because for infantry it's almost impossible to kill a mounted ranged. It's often a way easier to kill a horse than a rider, so if you have arrows, shoot horse first (it's always a possibility that rider will get a shot in his leg). Cav in this game are best ninjas. Charging horse make as much sound as a running cat, so you have to spin around all the time, because you have to see cav, when you hear them, it’s often too late.

Thinking - powerfull weapon
As an archer you should also remember:  you are not a stationary sub-machine gun. You have to move and think at battlefield. Sometimes it’s better to hide without shooting, let your enemies to walk more into open field or go away from you and then nail them with arrows. Always try to shoot at most wounded players, one enemy less = a bit closer to victory.

Where to aim?
When you aim at enemies you have to know that biggest dmg you deal when you hit head, then chest, legs and arms. Dmg delivered to enemies will also decrease with longer distance.
Headshooting enemies is a best way to kill. But it’s better to hit with 8 of 10 arrows to enemies bodies, than make 2 HS with 10 arrows. This game is about delivering dmg, archer missing most of his shots is almost useless.
Try also to concentrate your fire on one enemy, especially when he is a dangerous one. If you will shoot at one guy with few other archers you can stunlock him, and he will have no chances to escape.
If you will see back of your enemy  shoot him without wondering is it honorable  or something like that. Every melee have a smile on his face while backstabbing an archer. Many players are calling archers cunts, so at least give them reasons for doing that.

When you are playing with friends you can make some kind of suppressing fire (2 or 3 archers can make it really efficient). It can help your teammates to move from point A to B or keep cav away from fighting melee.
Some smart players without shields will use covers like fences, stones and others like that, Some of them will also hide behind lonley horses. It's always worth to try to shoot them in parts of their body you can see, mostly foot or piece of arm. Static covers sometimes got strange hitboxes (trees and fences) and magic possibilities of catching arrows flying close to it, but try to shoot, maybe you'll have a bit luck :)

Shooting into fighting melee
Remember, shoot only if you are sure to hit enemy, not your teammate. If you will hit wrong guy or tk him you will gain report and sometimes kick pool, or even ban pool. Getting team hits is a thing that everyone hates. From other side it’s nice when you kill few enemies trying to gang your teammate.

What to do with shielders
Shielders are your dangerous enemies. When they have shield up you can hit them only form side and back. From front force field generated by shield cover almost all body. It’s possible sometimes to hit shielder in his right foot. You have bigger chances to do that when he is making a step forward with right leg. It’s hard to do that, but worth to try.
It's also possible to shoot cav guy sitting on horse and hiding behind shield in his leg, just shot down from his knee.

Ammo
Control amount arrows you have all the time. Nowadays getting out of arrows happens hardly ever, but still possible (I mean battle not siege) You can loot arrows from ground and walls, but it’s impossible to take arrows sticking from shields and bodies.
Always say sorry if you hit your friend, and remember: shit can happen even for best, so we can also team shot someone.

5.   Surviving on battlefield

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Moving on battlefield and being aware is the hardest part of archery. Everyone want to kill enemy archer and hates them, so if you are not aware, you will die pretty fast.

How to move
Never stand still. Stop moving only for a short moment of releasing arrow. Try to make this time as short as possible. 
Sometimes you have to die, so at least try not to delay too long. If you ale last one It’s better to make a brave charge to multiple enemies instead asking for duels (you’ll hardly ever get any), or make a suicide with text “you will never get me alive!!!” written a while before in chat . When you die at beginning of the round you can Alt+Tab your game and read forum or watch videos on YT.
Try to be close to your teammates. It’s important to help each other. If you will be too far away, you won’t be able to shot enemies and also to far away from your melee that can handle cav or melee that want to kill you.
 If you are in danger and your team is still alive RUN. Don’t care about melee calling you for ex chicken. You are ranged not melee. As a pure archer you have tiny chances against dedicated melee.

Your friends
Trees, big stones, slopes and hills, ruins, fences and rooftops (very few of them are reachable nowadays) are your good friends and they can provide you some protection and if you learn how to use them, you will gain advantage that can help you to win.
Staying in group increase possibility to survive or win, but not always. Sometimes it’s better to go other way alone and go to enemies back to show them a little piece of hell but many times in your lonely trip you’ll find only death.

Dodge
You have to learn dodging cav. There is a simple trick helping it. When you draw a bow and look at your foots you’ll make some kind of beg.  Standing like that makes you way shorter and some hits will go over you. Standing like this you can also hide behind walls, stones and other stuff you can find on battlefield. Here I show you a difference.

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I wrote here all I know about archery, rest you have to learn by playing. You have to learn how players are moving on battlefield, where are good spots on maps and where you shouldn’t go.
Happy shooting  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: BlueKnight on August 07, 2013, 04:34:26 pm

Don't read it or you'll become an archer! Hated till the very end of your life...

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: karasu on August 07, 2013, 04:39:25 pm

Wrong section mate.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 04:40:13 pm

Thanks Blue, have you already respec your main?  8-)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Panos_ on August 07, 2013, 04:40:46 pm

Bagge and Steevee probably the best archers of this mod by far!

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fuck you both  though    :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: SirCymro_Crusader on August 07, 2013, 04:42:32 pm

Archery! Blasphemy

Aim, click and release and watch the rage unfold.

Bagge and Steevee are just too good :(

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 04:42:49 pm

Bagge is better than I am, and he have different playstyle

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Clockworkkiller on August 07, 2013, 04:54:31 pm

At least it's not xbows

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Panos_ on August 07, 2013, 04:59:48 pm

Quote from: Clockworkkiller on August 07, 2013, 04:54:31 pm

At least it's not 2h my old friends

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 05:52:41 pm

Quote from: SirCymro_Crusader on August 07, 2013, 04:42:32 pm

Archery! Blasphemy

Even one of popes was an archer...

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Adamar on August 07, 2013, 06:24:53 pm

Bagge and steeve are overrated.

Why would you help new archers anyway?

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 07:11:15 pm

Quote from: Adamar on August 07, 2013, 06:24:53 pm

Why would you help new archers anyway?

Why not?
I had to search for every info about archery on my own in many places when i started playing this game.
In this guide you will find common knowlage about archery and few tips from me.

IMO vetreran players should support new ones.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: jtobiasm on August 07, 2013, 08:19:32 pm

.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Rebelyell on August 07, 2013, 08:43:43 pm

Quote from: jtobiasm on August 07, 2013, 08:19:32 pm

Robinhood shits on bagge.

+1

and I on him
everyday I can

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Fredom on August 07, 2013, 08:56:53 pm

Quote from: Sabjorn on August 07, 2013, 04:40:46 pm

Bagge and Steevee probably the best archers of this mod by far!

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fuck you both  though    :mrgreen:

I see every of them often. know all good too, so:
Number one is definetely: ROBINHOOD
Number two is: Steevee
And Three is, I'm nit sure whether Bagge, or ReD WaR

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Adamar on August 08, 2013, 02:58:44 am

Quote from: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 07:11:15 pm

IMO vetreran players should support new ones.

But most people want less archers, not more.

Let them rage out of the class before they learn!

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 08, 2013, 10:03:12 am

For many ppl archery is too boring to play it for longer than 1 generation.
I want to help new players like i helped Zero_Tolerance at begining of his archery adventure.
I can also borrow my bow at  round beginings like i done before if someone ask me to do it. :P

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Molly on August 08, 2013, 10:04:58 am

Quote from: Fredom on August 07, 2013, 08:56:53 pm

I see every of them often. know all good too, so:
Number one is definetely: ROBINHOOD
Number two is: Steevee
And Three is, I'm nit sure whether Bagge, or ReD WaR

Classic newmy old friend heresy going on in this list!

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Adamar on August 08, 2013, 06:30:56 pm

Damn we need that archery tournament on to figure it out.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 08, 2013, 07:05:08 pm

I don't care about who is best archer, I know that i'm good and it's enough for me. I'm not going to participate in any archery tournament (or maybe yes, but you'll need  pay me for that  :mrgreen:)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Gurnisson on August 08, 2013, 08:00:15 pm

Robinhood is so overrated. He's average at best. Zerobot and bagge are the ones I wouldn't dare close in on without a shield.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Falka on August 08, 2013, 08:12:31 pm

Quote from: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 04:23:21 pm

Max armor weight that won’t decrease your WPF is 10 (correct me if I’m wrong).

I think it's 11 currently. Harald or Shik said so some time ago if I recall correctly.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 08, 2013, 09:55:37 pm

Quote from: Falka on August 08, 2013, 08:12:31 pm

I think it's 11 currently. Harald or Shik said so some time ago if I recall correctly.

Can anyone ask devs about it? My internet connection is so bad, that i can make some exercises, get a shower and ate my supper before any web page load totally

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: bagge on August 08, 2013, 10:24:39 pm

Quote from: Gurnisson on August 08, 2013, 08:00:15 pm

Robinhood is so overrated. He's average at best. Zerobot and bagge are the ones I wouldn't dare close in on without a shield.

All one can do is too ignore them, especially tobi :P

Anyway, who's Adamar?

ot: Nice of you Steeve, gonna read it later

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: jtobiasm on August 08, 2013, 10:39:54 pm

Quote from: bagge on August 08, 2013, 10:24:39 pm

All one can do is too ignore them, especially tobi :P

You know I'm joking, I hope. But robinhood is better than you. We know what happens when you don't have byz protecting you.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: convers on August 08, 2013, 10:46:33 pm

Nice

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: convers on August 08, 2013, 10:47:54 pm

Quote from: jtobiasm on August 07, 2013, 08:19:32 pm

Robinhood shits on bagge.

+1

True

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on August 09, 2013, 12:49:33 am

there is not good or bad archer, there are only trained archers. And others factors can make you good or bad : for example , this morning, I made 16/2, whereas sometimes (even often) , I shoot my teammates because I'm not awaken (or feel like drunk). And it depends also of the wpf an archer has in archery (bagge has 170 , and Robin has 185 => cannot compare it ). Also, every archer need occasions and protection of infantry to be effective (a roof, or a small street make targets closer, so, just shoot in the mob, or at least a decent protection from cavs).

For me, guys like Bagge/XyNox/Robinhood/Nikkodin/Stevee/ArcherHelot are really dangerous because they play this game for much longer than most archers, so, they know things that others don't, and they are trained to aim really fast and calculate the angle of the shot to make long-range shots.

Just add that you can use better armors with lighter bows , because the crosshair depends of accuracy AND damages of the bow (you can hold more time a nomad bow than a long bow , this is why I try to use horn bow with heavier armors). And I tried the "bow" , and it's already decent if you can't afford longbow's repairs.
And thank for the tip against shielders steevee, this is really a nice guide. :wink:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 09, 2013, 12:16:12 pm

Imo light bows are more for fun, not killing enemies. You can hold you bow longer without loosing accuracy if you have more PD over bow req.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on August 09, 2013, 04:12:33 pm

really ? So, I should try.

EDIT : I tried 24/18, 8 PD , 6WM , and it doesn't work. :/
It does even suck. Only thing to keep your bow drawn for more time is the WM, only ...

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 09, 2013, 10:24:10 pm

I'll make few tests after i'll come back to my student's house and add results to my giude.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Macropus on August 10, 2013, 09:07:21 am

Quote from: Algarn_of_Nord on August 09, 2013, 04:12:33 pm

EDIT : I tried 24/18, 8 PD , 6WM , and it doesn't work. :/
It does even suck. Only thing to keep your bow drawn for more time is the WM, only ...

Well you kinda failed testing it. Steevee said:

Quote from: Templar_Steevee on August 09, 2013, 12:16:12 pm

Imo light bows are more for fun, not killing enemies. You can hold you bow longer without loosing accuracy if you have more PD over bow req.

And in your test you not only took a bow with less requirement, but also reduced your WM which ofc has even bigger effect on accuracy and draw time.
Now try to test it with the same build and see. Or find a 8 PD requirement bow to compare with if you use 24-18.  :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on August 11, 2013, 11:59:32 am

Well , I tested this , but I play with 165 wpf in archery,  which is a big difference compared to 150 or less, seems that you are right about the fact I failled my test :wink:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 11, 2013, 06:34:06 pm

Soon I'll add few more tips but at first I have to put it on paper and decide wich ones are best :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on August 12, 2013, 10:21:04 pm

I respeced ... From rage, I gone for 24/18 at level 33 (level 32 now)

Finally, i recommand this build if you know playing archer.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 14, 2013, 05:19:48 pm

18/27 is really nice and i enjoy playing with it. I just love to shoot enemies at really long distances :D

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Palurgee on August 20, 2013, 10:54:49 pm

Quote from: Templar_Steevee on August 07, 2013, 04:23:21 pm

1.   BULIDS
Your main skill is Power Draw. It’s based on STR. Every 3 STR allows you to increase PD by 1. PD increase your dmg and decrease wpf.
You should give you char no more than 18 STR (6 PD). IMO AGI archers are better than STR ones. It’s better to shoot a bit faster and more accurate than hit a bit harder.
Put as many points as you can in Weapon Mastery and put all weapon points in Archery.
7 Athletics is enough (I have 7 Ath on lvl 44). It lets you to run away from some enemies and dodge cav as well. If you have some spare pints put them in Power strike instead of Iron Flesh. It’s better to have some melee abilities than 6 HP more. With some PS you won’t glance all the time on your enemies and deal some dmg (or at least stun and interrupt enemies). I tried few builds before I go hi lvl but best bulid for lvl 30 for me was:
18 STR, 21 AGI, 6 PD, 7 WM, 7 ATH, 3 PS, all weapon points in archery. It’s easy to find builds for archers on forum, try some of them and choose best for you.

wtf?

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 21, 2013, 09:29:35 am

I`m too op to use all points, i need only 18/27 bulid :mrgreen:


Now i know that ppl are reading my guide carefully, thanks for that, going to edit mistake  :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Jeraz on August 30, 2013, 09:58:07 am

Nice guide,i can't think of annything i would have written differently + i actually learned a thing from it! (The draw your bow longer over bow req).
I do would like the add that,alto i don't dislike the pickaxe,i always use a short sword as my money saver. its a good decent sword with 300 less upkeep as the broad short sword.
+ you wrote " Builds"  wrong  :wink:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on August 30, 2013, 03:38:17 pm

I need to add one or two more tips, but at first i have to translate it from polish to english  :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 06, 2013, 09:45:58 pm

I make my guide more colorfull by adding some photos. Enjoy it :)
My pics have also some usefull infos :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Jeraz on September 10, 2013, 08:43:15 am

2*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 4*hand armor weight - 10 . You are you actually losing 0,9% of your WPF with your build  :rolleyes:

(From the game mechanic thread:
Armor weight
Armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)
Effective armor weight = 2*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 4*hand armor weight - 10
(Source: WaltF4, updated 31.7.2012 based on the new formula)

This means that every point of armor weight with helmet weight multiplied by 2 and glove weight multiplied by 4  over 10 reduces your wpf by 1%. Or the same put other way, any effective armor weight from the above equation reduces your wpf 1% per 1 point. )

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: bagge on September 10, 2013, 05:01:28 pm

Quote from: Jeraz on September 10, 2013, 08:43:15 am

2*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 4*hand armor weight - 10 . You are you actually losing 0,9% of your WPF with your build  :rolleyes:

(From the game mechanic thread:
Armor weight
Armor weight modified proficiency = base proficiency * (1 - 0.01 * effective armor weight)
Effective armor weight = 2*head armor weight + body armor weight + leg armor weight + 4*hand armor weight - 10
(Source: WaltF4, updated 31.7.2012 based on the new formula)

This means that every point of armor weight with helmet weight multiplied by 2 and glove weight multiplied by 4  over 10 reduces your wpf by 1%. Or the same put other way, any effective armor weight from the above equation reduces your wpf 1% per 1 point. )

I recall someone saying you have 11 weight limit now

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 10, 2013, 07:42:32 pm

Thx guys, for finding mistake, going to edit it :)
To be honest i was too lazy to check it :P

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: bagge on September 10, 2013, 07:56:38 pm

How do you get those fancy models Steeve?

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Jeraz on September 10, 2013, 09:53:44 pm

Quote from: bagge on September 10, 2013, 05:01:28 pm

I recall someone saying you have 11 weight limit now

Could be, but i guess they would update that, cause a lot of people base their builds on that thread  :wink:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 11, 2013, 12:04:34 am

Quote from: bagge on September 10, 2013, 07:56:38 pm

How do you get those fancy models Steeve?

http://forum.melee.org/suggestions-corner/final_boss%27-heirloom-pack!-updated/?topicseen

I have them from here, for me looks nice :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: mokuchin on September 11, 2013, 06:18:50 am

My Horse Archer build
Lvl - 35
21/24
PD - 7
HA - 4
RID - 7
WPT - 8

This build is not just only annoying.

Weapon using
+3 Yumi
+3 Tatar Arrow
+3 Arabian Warhorse

A normal player usually only take 2 - 3 shots

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on September 11, 2013, 11:36:08 am

Stevee , you have to add that finally, STR builds are viable if you are an experimented archer : you just have to be fast. The really good thing is that I deal huge damages , and it takes for me only 3-4 arrows to kill a guy (it was like 6 arrows if the guy had 50 body armor). And the fact that you can drop PS makes huge difference, now , I just need 2 athl points to be a monster at melee. The bad thing is that I can't make shots at 80 metters because of the random factor on arrows ... I recommand it !

 :arrow:

(click to show/hide)

Strength:24
Agility:18

One Handed:45
Two Handed:39
Archery:150

hit points : 57

Weapon Master:6
Athletics:4
Power Strike:8
Power Draw:8
Power Throw:0

Few screens of scores that I made on EU 1 with this :

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I love this build, really , I think that I made the good decision with this respec. As I'm not one of best archers , I can't imagine what would it makes with Robinhood or Bagge.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: HappyPhantom on September 11, 2013, 10:52:55 pm

Quote from: Algarn_of_Nord on September 11, 2013, 11:36:08 am

Stevee , you have to add that finally, STR builds are viable if you are an experimented archer : you just have to be fast. The really good thing is that I deal huge damages , and it takes for me only 3-4 arrows to kill a guy (it was like 6 arrows if the guy had 50 body armor). And the fact that you can drop PS makes huge difference, now , I just need 2 athl points to be a monster at melee. The bad thing is that I can't make shots at 80 metters because of the random factor on arrows ... I recommand it !

...

I love this build, really , I think that I made the good decision with this respec. As I'm not one of best archers , I can't imagine what would it makes with Robinhood or Bagge.

Tempted to try, but how good/bad is the reticule accuracy?? I usually find 150 WPF too low...

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on September 12, 2013, 12:47:27 am

I use a loomed longbow (+3), it adds 1 accuracy I think, and it clearly changes everything.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 12, 2013, 04:15:53 pm

Quote from: Algarn_of_Nord on September 11, 2013, 11:36:08 am

Stevee , you have to add that finally, STR builds are viable if you are an experimented archer : you just have to be fast. The really good thing is that I deal huge damages , and it takes for me only 3-4 arrows to kill a guy (it was like 6 arrows if the guy had 50 body armor). And the fact that you can drop PS makes huge difference, now , I just need 2 athl points to be a monster at melee. The bad thing is that I can't make shots at 80 metters because of the random factor on arrows ... I recommand it !

 :arrow:

(click to show/hide)

Strength:24
Agility:18

One Handed:45
Two Handed:39
Archery:150

hit points : 57

Weapon Master:6
Athletics:4
Power Strike:8
Power Draw:8
Power Throw:0

Few screens of scores that I made on EU 1 with this :

(click to show/hide)

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(click to show/hide)

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(click to show/hide)

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I love this build, really , I think that I made the good decision with this respec. As I'm not one of best archers , I can't imagine what would it makes with Robinhood or Bagge.

How many ppl are you killing in melee and for what lvl are you?? I posted bulids for lvl 30, choosing what you put in points on higher lvls is your personal choice. My guide is for pure archers (i'm a pure archer because i suck in melee) and i can't tell much about hybrid archers.

I have 6 PD and hardly ever someone can survive 3 body shots. You were probably using cut dmg arrows and that's why ppl can survive so many shots. I'm almost sure if you will take bodkins you can easilly 2shot ppl

Sorry for my horrible english

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on September 12, 2013, 07:34:58 pm

1/3 of my kills are melee kills , 8 PS with stab of short arming sword deals huge damage. I'm level 33, and I never use cut arrows  :P

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 13, 2013, 07:35:58 am

So i just don't know how it's possible not to kill someone with 6 shots. Even butan was dying in 5 shots with his str bulid and loomed full plate...

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on September 13, 2013, 10:47:54 am

o.O ... I didn't killed butan for a while, I should ask him to do the test ;). And, are you sure to talk about 6 shots in the body ? I saw him with 5 bolts from arbalest and he was still alive ... It's a monster.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Jeraz on September 13, 2013, 12:35:15 pm

Quote from: Algarn_of_Nord on September 13, 2013, 10:47:54 am

o.O ... I didn't killed butan for a while, I should ask him to do the test ;). And, are you sure to talk about 6 shots in the body ? I saw him with 5 bolts from arbalest and he was still alive ... It's a monster.

Are you sure that you are not using tartar?, cause yesterday when you where playing as Algarn_bad_cuz_french you had tartar arrows and not bodkins, that would explain why it would take so many shots

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 13, 2013, 01:53:52 pm

I hopr that you remember about hitboxes. Full dmg is only if you hit someone in body, in arms and legs you deal way less dmg

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on September 13, 2013, 03:19:30 pm

Quote from: Templar_Steevee on September 13, 2013, 01:53:52 pm

I hopr that you remember about hitboxes. Full dmg is only if you hit someone in body, in arms and legs you deal way less dmg

I can't find any info about a penalty for arms, but the leg penalty isn't that big.

You might even do more damage than with a bodyshot if they didn't bother getting expensive boots, which isn't that uncommon for non-cav.

Quote

if hit_bone == head:
   effective_damage *= 1.2

   if item_is_ranged:
      effective_damage *= 1.75
elif hit_bone == calf or hit_bone == thigh:
   effective_damage *= 0.9

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on September 13, 2013, 05:15:20 pm

Quote from: Jeraz on September 13, 2013, 12:35:15 pm

Are you sure that you are not using tartar?, cause yesterday when you where playing as Algarn_bad_cuz_french you had tartar arrows and not bodkins, that would explain why it would take so many shots

I just picked up tatar arrows because I ran out of +1 bodkins ;). And yes Steeve, I know that arrows deals less damages in legs and arms. ^^

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 26, 2013, 03:19:12 pm

Edit: added few words about shooting at mounted ranged.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Gurnisson on October 01, 2013, 04:12:51 pm

You should mention the Military Sickle, Fighting Axe and Langes Messer for 1 slot bow users too. Not everyone knows they've got a 2h secondary mode with very good stats.

I'll add the pics of +3 fighting axe and +3 military sickle since I have them.

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Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 02, 2013, 07:19:58 am

Thx Gurni it's a info more for hybrids, but I added it at the end of weapons section :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on October 27, 2013, 04:48:46 pm

Added one more tip :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Alexia on November 01, 2013, 04:02:31 am

i at the moment got 24/15 on lvl 30
8 pd
8ps
5wm
2ath.
135-140 wpf bow rest melee
its rather stationary but hits really hard if youre a bit experienced and like longbows you should give it a shot :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 01, 2013, 10:28:32 am

It can be a fun playing with it. I hit lvl 35 and my 18/27 archer even have 2 ps :mrgreen:

My bulid is made for shooting ppl from huge rang on hi speed 8-)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on November 01, 2013, 11:37:06 am

Quote from: Alexia on November 01, 2013, 04:02:31 am

i at the moment got 24/15 on lvl 30
8 pd
8ps
5wm
2ath.
135-140 wpf bow rest melee
its rather stationary but hits really hard if youre a bit experienced and like longbows you should give it a shot :)

Get some WM and this build will be tasty for you. I got the same one until level 33.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 01, 2013, 05:03:24 pm

Quote from: Algarn_of_Nord on November 01, 2013, 11:37:06 am

Get some WM and this build will be tasty for you. I got the same one until level 33.

For this build he already have maxed up WM...

It`s nice to know that ppl are mdaking other bulids than 18 str and rest in agi or skills. It`s making game more colorfull  :P

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on November 01, 2013, 05:25:12 pm

I mean by getting some wm to get 6 WM and 150 wpf in archery.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 01, 2013, 06:12:43 pm

More WPF more fun from shooting :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Gktq on November 09, 2013, 11:06:06 pm

Thanks for guide ! İ read all

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Goat_Fighter on November 18, 2013, 09:40:41 pm

thanks for this guide steeevee really helped me improve :D

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 18, 2013, 11:36:39 pm

Quote from: Goat_Fighter on November 18, 2013, 09:40:41 pm

thanks for this guide steeevee really helped me improve :D

I hope it will be helpfull  more ppl.


After todays path and reworked wpf it looks like my guide is still totally active and i don't have to change anything  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: sJimmy on November 18, 2013, 11:40:14 pm

What do you think of this build?

Archery
Strength:21
Agility:21
Archery:170
Weapon Master:7
Athletics:3
Power Draw:7

Even with the new patch it seems okay to me. But maybe I'm missing something... any advice would really help.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Jeraz on November 19, 2013, 03:21:17 pm

Quote from: sJimmy on November 18, 2013, 11:40:14 pm

What do you think of this build?

Archery
Strength:21
Agility:21
Archery:170
Weapon Master:7
Athletics:3
Power Draw:7

Even with the new patch it seems okay to me. But maybe I'm missing something... any advice would really help.

In my opinion there are 2 types of archers, the agi one (low/no PS but high ath and weak armor)
and the higher str one (medium/high PS/IF and medium/heavy armor but low ath)
So ether tanky but slow or Fast but easy to kill.

Your build is slow (low ath) but you dont compansate with if/ps, so people can easly catch you but you cant defend your self cause you have no PS.  Its not worth the extra 3 points in str to sacrifice 6 points from ath/ (ps/if). thats why so many people recommend 18/21. (6 powerdraw is enough for every bow, 7 ath, 7 wpf and 3(ps/if))

But this is just my opninion. Your build is not bad but you wont really notice the +1 PD damage and you are better of spending those points (getting 21 str and 7pd) into Ath/PS/IF.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on November 19, 2013, 10:00:25 pm

on one lvl more if you will invest  all points in ATH i can be ok, but  like Jeraz wrote, you are preety slow and with no ps you won't be able to do too much in melee...

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: sJimmy on November 19, 2013, 11:53:32 pm

Thanks for the help!

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: jtobiasm on December 13, 2013, 11:29:53 pm

steeveeee, Bullet point the "Shooting, choosing targets" and "Surviving on battlefield".
The wall of text hurt my eyes ;D

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Ronin on December 14, 2013, 02:26:18 pm

No matter what you do, get some power strike and a melee weapon as an archer. Kiting is not nice for the opposite player and it shouldn't be your only option. :wink:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on December 14, 2013, 05:30:49 pm

Quote from: jtobiasm on December 13, 2013, 11:29:53 pm

steeveeee, Bullet point the "Shooting, choosing targets" and "Surviving on battlefield".
The wall of text hurt my eyes ;D

I will edit it to let him be more friendly for reading :)

Quote from: Ronin on December 14, 2013, 02:26:18 pm

No matter what you do, get some power strike and a melee weapon as an archer. Kiting is not nice for the opposite player and it shouldn't be your only option. :wink:

I wrote somewhere that i't better to hav PS  istead IF to be able to fight back :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on December 18, 2013, 09:32:55 am

I edited wall of text, it's more friendly now :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Boerenlater on December 18, 2013, 10:44:45 am

Thanks Steevee. As a new archer this helped me alot.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Boerenlater on December 21, 2013, 11:34:29 am

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I use this with 6PD and 171wpf. How much wpf fo I have exactly because of my gear? (heraldic mail heavy cough cough).

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on December 21, 2013, 11:49:42 am

You'll have 90-92 according to the old formula depending on how the game and website handles decimals.

Your effective weight is not that high (4.6).

I seem to recall Tydeus saying that the formula was changed though.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on December 21, 2013, 12:38:25 pm

I don't know formulas, IMO if you like to play with this equipment and you are hitting enemies it's ok :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Ronin on December 21, 2013, 11:45:36 pm

I'd use leather gauntlets, but other than that it seems ok. If you are hitting targets and the shooting speed is fine, everything is ok.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Jeraz on December 26, 2013, 12:10:31 am

Quote from: Boerenlater on December 21, 2013, 11:34:29 am

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I use this with 6PD and 171wpf. How much wpf fo I have exactly because of my gear? (heraldic mail heavy cough cough).

11, 1 +(0, 3x4) 1, 2+(0, 7×2) 1, 4+0, 9= 14, 6-10 = 4, 6 so you lose 4, 6% = 163 wpf

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Huscarlton_Banks on December 26, 2013, 01:11:46 pm

The wpf you lose from armor is calculated after the power draw penalty, so the armor penalty is a bit less.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Plarbis on January 11, 2014, 10:17:31 pm

Quote from: bagge on September 10, 2013, 05:01:28 pm

I recall someone saying you have 11 weight limit now

Was official word given on this one way or another?

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Life on January 11, 2014, 10:21:53 pm

1st thing i noticed was the wpf in builds a bit wrong. you should use the updated character builder.

but good guide!  :D

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on January 12, 2014, 11:34:51 pm

thx fot notice, will fix that :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Ubereem on June 19, 2014, 08:36:57 pm

the best is when you bend down to dodge and the enemy arrow or bolt hits you right in the top of the head. ha at least you saved your nuts!

good guide archery only class I never try so ima give it a shot.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on June 19, 2014, 09:57:59 pm

Quote from: Ubereem on June 19, 2014, 08:36:57 pm

the best is when you bend down to dodge and the enemy arrow or bolt hits you right in the top of the head. ha at least you saved your nuts!

good guide archery only class I never try so ima give it a shot.

looking down while dodging isn't best choice im some cases because you just can't see what you enemy is doing and some ppl are simply aiming uoyr body, not head :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Jeraz on June 20, 2014, 08:34:32 am

Sometimes when i'm stuck in a hallway and i have (almost) no way of dodgeing an enemy arrow, i do duck and point my ass towards the enemy, so that atleast they wont hit my head.

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on June 20, 2014, 09:37:01 am

Quote from: Jeraz on June 20, 2014, 08:34:32 am

Sometimes when i'm stuck in a hallway and i have (almost) no way of dodgeing an enemy arrow, i do duck and point my ass towards the enemy, so that atleast they wont hit my head.

I made one sentence when I were playing x-bow: "you can survive ass shot, not a head shot"  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Jeraz on June 20, 2014, 12:57:15 pm

Quote from: Templar_Steevee on June 20, 2014, 09:37:01 am

I made one sentence when I were playing x-bow: "you can survive ass shot, not a head shot"  :mrgreen:

haha, So true

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on July 01, 2014, 09:28:19 pm

also having good body armor is helping to survive a lot.

51 body armor with equipment I'm using atm is making magic sometimes like surviving couch lances, few arrows (max from rus bow and bodkins were 3, but all in arms  :mrgreen: ) and sometimes plenty hits from melee weapons  :twisted: I've already been called armor crutcher and cheater because of that  :mrgreen:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Algarn on July 01, 2014, 11:54:27 pm

Quote from: Templar_Steevee on July 01, 2014, 09:28:19 pm

I've already been called armor crutcher and cheater because of that  :mrgreen:

I feel lonely and forgotten now, even with 46 body and head armor and 70 hp at level 35 :(

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 21, 2014, 07:49:18 pm

I make some minor changes in text and also mentioned about Knobbed mace in weapon spoiler :)

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Finse on September 23, 2014, 07:48:25 pm

Great guide Steeeeeeevvvvvvvvvveeeee, sorry not sure how many of the letters that are right.  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Title: Re: Archery guide for new players by Steevee
Post by: Templar_Steevee on September 24, 2014, 12:51:30 am

Quote from: onix on September 23, 2014, 07:48:25 pm

Great guide Steeeeeeevvvvvvvvvveeeee, sorry not sure how many of the letters that are right.  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Depends how many times i'll kill you in a row  :twisted: