Author Topic: Leave or stay in the EU?  (Read 78715 times)

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Offline Falka

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1125 on: July 10, 2016, 08:55:56 pm »
-1
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But the Union’s greatest failing is that after decades of regulations of every possible kind it has not brought the nations of the Continent closer together. (...)
We are separate nations but not sovereign nations. We obey the dictates of Brussels and read Jonathan Franzen and “Harry Potter.” We watch American films and follow the American elections far more closely than those of any other country in the European Union. Is this a community?

What a tool  :lol: And what's wrong with Harry Potter, I love these books  :wink:
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1126 on: July 10, 2016, 09:07:20 pm »
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It's however true the EU is extremely unsexy, with it's distant, boring and slow bureaucrats, having nearly no real power at all. They are basically negotiators. It's very easy for for politicians to blame whatever on the EU. Still, it does make sense that Europe should have equal standards, that Europeans can move to where there is work. And before an equilibrium arises, there will be movement of people.

The EU has fiscal governance over Eurozone countries. Member states present an economic policy to the EU in spring which is then subject to EU provisions that must be upheld according to TSCG and EPP regulations. Blaming the EU is perfectly acceptable because these regulations enact a complete transfer of member state economic sovereignty to the EU,  if something goes wrong during that year it is impossible for member states to backtrack or change their policies, it is an inflexible system where the member states are only allowed to execute the policy which is drafted by EU commission.

These standards turn countries like Italy, Greece and Poland into placeholders who have no room to improve their own economic condition based on their own economic situations because of endless regulatory guidelines drafted to keep them from not devaluing the precious German and French economies and the Euro while access to the single market is held over their head even though they aren't allowed to make their own trade deals. Your stereotypical German engineer will continue to find work over a Eastern European engineer because these countries have to build sanctioned and approved EU projects to EU standards which isn't within their economic budget because of fiscal restrictions on these countries that protect EU (German) interests.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 11:28:23 pm by Grytviken »

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1127 on: July 10, 2016, 10:15:56 pm »
+2
It's lack of centralised Eurozone fiscal policy that allowed stuff like the Greece situation to develop in the first place.

Offline Grytviken

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1128 on: July 10, 2016, 10:32:46 pm »
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It's lack of centralised Eurozone fiscal policy that allowed stuff like the Greece situation to develop in the first place.

Greece was already bound to centralized EU fiscal policies before the crash that's why 40 billion dollars worth of Greek assets were able to be seized by the EU. It's better to be out of the EU and go bankrupt where you will be able to control your own interest rates then to be in debt to the EU where you will be kept on life support and bound to EU deficit policies to keep the Euro from falling, policies that force the Greek government to cancel  and reform pensions of citizens who have worked hard their entire life, pensions that weren't all that generous to start with.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2016, 10:52:58 pm by Grytviken »

Offline tizzango

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1129 on: July 11, 2016, 02:59:44 am »
+2
> Going to Australia in a few weeks
> Pre-Brexit: GBP to AUD 1:2
> Post-Brexit: GBP to AUD 1:1.77
> Waits to see if GBP will stabilise
> 4 days before Australia
> GBP to AUD: 1:1.72
> fuck me.
> Google for economic forecasts
> Read about upcoming (forecasted) UK recession

Offline [ptx]

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1130 on: July 11, 2016, 11:02:48 am »
+1

Offline Osiris

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1131 on: July 12, 2016, 08:10:42 pm »
0
Yeah i think may was the best choice from the candidates. Trying to judge whats going on with the economy is really hard atm, depending on which articles or websites you read you get totally differing views.
Only thing most of them have in common is that Italy came out worse than anyone from Brexit. Gonna be months before we can really know the impact that Brexit will have on the economy (if thats your primary concern) The economy will probably take another drop when we finally do invoke article 50 question is will it raise as much as before.
Seems we are talking to India about a trade deal (which is odd considering we haven't invoked article 50 yet)


May seems to have some interesting ideas for a Tory, pandering to the centralist labour voters/mps?

http://news.sky.com/story/bosses-union-welcomes-mays-proposals-10498556
"So if I'm prime minister, we're going to change that system - and we're going to have not just consumers represented on company boards, but workers as well.

"As part of the changes I want to make to corporate governance, I will make shareholder votes on corporate pay not just advisory but binding."


Also looks like Labour never want to be in power ever again. They call for a new General Election when they would lose so many seats. The corbyn story could keep going and going with him refusing to back down and the MPs trying everything they can to remove him. If they push him out via the back door will the party split i wonder




Sky news on pound and stock surge post May.
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Offline Thomek

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1132 on: July 13, 2016, 03:21:32 am »
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British politics are strange to me.

Imo, the single biggest problem you have in Britain is the class system, most off all caused and expressed by the school system. (But also deeply programmed in the population) The Tories ARE the class system distilled!

And the goddamn newspapers you have there. Should be some kind of anti-trust or independence laws invoked so Murdoch can't have as much control as he has.

But then again, the left has lost its way, all over the world. It needs new ideas, perhaps focusing on systemic meritocratic aspects, by inhibiting inheritance and nepotism, allowing a fair playground for everyone.

Good luck Britain :)
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Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1133 on: July 13, 2016, 05:20:37 am »
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British politics are strange to me.

Imo, the single biggest problem you have in Britain is the class system, most off all caused and expressed by the school system. (But also deeply programmed in the population) The Tories ARE the class system distilled!

And the goddamn newspapers you have there. Should be some kind of anti-trust or independence laws invoked so Murdoch can't have as much control as he has.

But then again, the left has lost its way, all over the world. It needs new ideas, perhaps focusing on systemic meritocratic aspects, by inhibiting inheritance and nepotism, allowing a fair playground for everyone.

Good luck Britain :)

Those aren't new ideas.  They've been floated before.  If I work hard and accumulate wealth and you want to confiscate the vast majority of it to redistribute it evenly across society (the fair playground theory).  I would just move the capital offshore (and the jobs) if possible.  Capital is mobile.  Confiscatory tax regimes, while feeling warm and fuzzy, are counter productive.

Offline Leshma

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1134 on: July 13, 2016, 02:31:55 pm »
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Those aren't new ideas.  They've been floated before.  If I work hard and accumulate wealth and you want to confiscate the vast majority of it to redistribute it evenly across society (the fair playground theory).  I would just move the capital offshore (and the jobs) if possible.  Capital is mobile.  Confiscatory tax regimes, while feeling warm and fuzzy, are counter productive.

What if we implement something like ELO in society and reward people according to their rank? Completely eliminates inheritance because ELO ranking and points accumulated can't be transfered to another human.

Wanted to push for cRPG leveling system based on same idea but Meow told me people hate that shit.

Offline Butan

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1135 on: July 13, 2016, 03:32:21 pm »
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You recently signed the petition “EU Referendum Rules triggering a 2nd EU Referendum”:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

The Petitions Committee has decided to schedule a House of Commons debate on this petition. The debate will take place on 5 September at 4.30pm in Westminster Hall, the second debating chamber of the House of Commons. The debate will be opened by Ian Blackford MP.

The Committee has decided that the huge number of people signing this petition means that it should be debated by MPs. The Petitions Committee would like to make clear that, in scheduling this debate, they are not supporting the call for a second referendum. The debate will allow MPs to put forward a range of views on behalf of their constituents. At the end of the debate, a Government Minister will respond to the points raised.

A debate in Westminster Hall does not have the power to change the law, and won’t end with the House of Commons deciding whether or not to have a second referendum. Moreover, the petition – which was opened on 25 May, well before the referendum – calls for the referendum rules to be changed. It is now too late for the rules to be changed retrospectively. It will be up to the Government to decide whether it wants to start the process of agreeing a new law for a second referendum.

The Petitions Committee is a cross-party group of MPs. It is independent from Government. You can find out more about the Committee on its website: http://www.parliament.uk/petitions-committee/role

Thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1136 on: July 13, 2016, 08:36:05 pm »
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What's in it for Scotland to leave the UK?  Do they really have an expectation of being accepted as an EU member state?

Offline Rhekimos

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1137 on: July 13, 2016, 09:01:26 pm »
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Boris Johnson made foreign secretary by Theresa May

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36789972

Offline Jarl_Of_Vinland

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1138 on: July 13, 2016, 09:30:16 pm »
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What's in it for Scotland to leave the UK?  Do they really have an expectation of being accepted as an EU member state?
Kilts, and their right to wear them whenever they want.

Honestly they just hate the English, and think they will get a better deal with the EU. Good luck doing so without the English coming along. Besides, most EU members won't vote them in now, since if they do, it will give the green light to their own separatist moments to leave as well.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Leave or stay in the EU?
« Reply #1139 on: July 14, 2016, 01:22:23 am »
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I would just move the capital offshore (and the jobs) if possible.

And that works because I'm a tiny nation-state on the world stage and can apply exactly zero pressure on either fiscal heavens and capital owners. Snap.