Author Topic: "Cologne sex attacks"  (Read 35401 times)

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Offline Yuang

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2016, 04:13:37 am »
+1
I did not see in front of the replies, I tell a story to you.

Quote
The Farmer and the Snake

ONE WINTER a Farmer found a Snake stiff and frozen with cold. He had compassion on it, and taking it up, placed it in his bosom. The Snake was quickly revived by the warmth, and resuming its natural instincts, bit its benefactor, inflicting on him a mortal wound. "Oh," cried the Farmer with his last breath, "I am rightly served for pitying a scoundrel."

The greatest kindness will not bind the ungrateful.
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Offline Rando

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2016, 05:21:23 am »
+1
I've posted it before and I'll post it again:


It is time.
Women cannot be autistic, because that implies otherwise well functioning brain to be impaired in some way. We know that women posses no such thing.

Offline Rico

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2016, 07:27:25 am »
+2
At least we have Rico prepped up for the kristallnacht.
well yeah, if trying not to get soaked into extremism neither by chocolate chip cookies nor islamists counts as preparation, i guess i am prepared
 :rolleyes:
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Offline Asheram

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2016, 08:33:50 am »
0
please no chocolate chip cookie prejudice
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Offline Molly

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2016, 09:09:14 am »
0
[...]
So sorry to dissapoint you, but especially Molly. Warlord eventually marrying into a family of immigrants/non-germans  :P :D :mrgreen:
You are a racist, no matter who you fuck.

On a different note, it kinda amuses me how I am put in a far left corner of the political spectrum when I actually see myself as a man of the middle, partly conservative even.
And all that based on the fact that I despise generalization and argue against it.

Like Kafein, I think this does far more harm than good. If the media and politicians had a proportional and rational approach I'd likely be saying the opposite things. Right now "rational and proportional" just gets ignored by both sides, and in fact you can't even start discussing what's proportional because the facts are being hidden and manipulated. It sucks that a lot of good people of Arab and other foreign descent are going to suffer as a consequence (and I'd stop skinheads from attacking an innocent Arab just like I'd stop Arabs from raping a girl), but the counter-reaction to overblown secretiveness is going to be just as overblown, only in the opposite direction.

All the hush-hush is achieving is a massive build up of anger, and if it keeps going the eventual backlash is going to be very over the top.
I can sign this.

Every single person who sexually attacks a woman has to be punished. No matter where he/she comes from. No matter the skin color, religious believe or whatever stupid excuse someone could come up with. Not Arabs attack women, assholes do.
And I admitted a lot of times that there is a problem - several problems actually - with the massive influx of immigrants to Europe. I simply don't believe that closing borders or coming up with yet even more laws which are going to be ignored will solve anything. Doesn't mean I don't like them to stop coming. I was one of the first in here complaining about those pricks at German railway stations welcoming refugees with fucking applause, colourful balloons and teddy bears. I am certainly not a part of the "Refugees Welcome"-fanbase.
But I do refuse to condemn all of them with generalized statements like Oberyn does:"They are all rapists and bad, bad people!!1 ARRRGH!"
Like the guy who I quoted before - and Warlord nicely made fun of cuz of his haircut - wrote (loosely translated): Just because the first 9 black guys you met turned out to be assholes doesn't give you the right to hit the 10th straight into the face.

And I am fine with discussing the issue but I'll stop instantly when the rhetoric goes down the "sandnigga"-path. And unfortunately that is the case 99% of the time when the likes of Oberyn and Warlord enter the stage. Although Warlord is certainly more careful with what he writes since I called him out as a racist some time ago. He never was as bad as Wayyyyne but he never missed a chance to +1 his posts either when Wayyyyne was still around.

/rant
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2016, 09:44:28 am »
+5
You condemn anything at all but the obvious. "Racist" people like me have been saying repeatedly, for years now, that there is a deep cultural/religious issue with a lot of ME/NA immigrants and refugees to Europe concerning their perceptions of women, their perceptions of our laws, their perceptions of our cultures. They have no respect for the police, they have no respect for women who don't come from their culture, in fact you could even say they are "racist" and proud of it, and encouraged to be so.
They certainly have no respect for men like you. Your primary worry seems to be to not to be perceived as "racist", truly the most awful thing that could happen to you apparently. It takes some massive cognitive dissonance to say with a straight face the ethnicity and culture of the perpetrators of these attacks is completely irrelevant, as if it could just as easily have been drunken groups of german guys, or polish guys, or etc. I'm sure the reaction from the regressives such as yourself would've been identical if that was the case, yes? I guess as a "centrist" it's easier to make vague, non-commital statements that literally mean nothing. "Oh it's so bad, but nothing can be done, /shrug, people who get angry at this are obviously racists, arabs and north africans aren't particularly overrepresented in these sorts of crimes, only a racist would say that, it's just assholes in general". Keep dancing around the obvious issue, or you could just retreat to your feinting couch and "stop instantly" whenever you perceive wrongthink, as you usually do. . 
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Offline Prpavi

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2016, 10:44:47 am »
0
Can somebody from Germany shed more light in the details please? How many people did what to how many people? What I'm getting bere is a thousand arabs marched the streets pillaging and raping, that's a huge number, how Can a crowd that big even go around without any police alerted immidiately.

And now he can't play because of "common sense" and he doesn't understand how this common sense works
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2016, 11:02:07 am »
+4
Koln police were completely overwhelmed. One of the victims was a policewoman herself. And this is only in Koln. Same thing happened in other german cities, Frankfurt drawing a little bit of attention as well. Police authority is mostly an illusion. All it takes is a large enough and motivated enough group to realize they outnumber the police and they are completely powerless. Especially german police that have been hamstrung by ridiculous "rules of engagement", slashbacked budgets everywhere and a topdown drive to make women police officers more common. And oooh do woman police officers enrage these assholes. The jails were so full they literally could not take any more offenders, even if they had wanted to.

And there's pressure from the government to keep these sorts of delicate issues under the rug. It's why the reports of New Year's Eve from Koln police were initially "all quiet on the western front", as if absolutely nothing out of the ordinary had happened. It took local news and social media pressure for the government and state media to even begin to accept it happened at all, much less to adress the issue.

This is at least my impression from the outside, although I am not german and do not live there.
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Offline Falka

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #53 on: January 07, 2016, 11:04:04 am »
+2
I simply don't believe that closing borders (...) will solve anything.

Why not? Why it won't solve a problem with refugees, at least partially? And to be honest I don't understand why it's so big issues, closing borders. It's not like all people around the world have some divine right to go wherever they want.

Not Arabs attack women, assholes do.

Guns don't kill people... It's like saying that in the early nineties polakos didn't steal cars in germany, thieves did. But we did!  :wink:
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Offline Christo

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #54 on: January 07, 2016, 11:08:27 am »
+1
2016 is going to be a hell of a year  :rolleyes:
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Offline Molly

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2016, 11:22:07 am »
0
You condemn anything at all but the obvious. "Racist" people like me have been saying repeatedly, for years now, that there is a deep cultural/religious issue with a lot of ME/NA immigrants and refugees to Europe concerning their perceptions of women, their perceptions of our laws, their perceptions of our cultures. They have no respect for the police, they have no respect for women who don't come from their culture, in fact you could even say they are "racist" and proud of it, and encouraged to be so.
They certainly have no respect for men like you. Your primary worry seems to be to not to be perceived as "racist", truly the most awful thing that could happen to you apparently. It takes some massive cognitive dissonance to say with a straight face the ethnicity and culture of the perpetrators of these attacks is completely irrelevant, as if it could just as easily have been drunken groups of german guys, or polish guys, or etc. I'm sure the reaction from the regressives such as yourself would've been identical if that was the case, yes? I guess as a "centrist" it's easier to make vague, non-commital statements that literally mean nothing. "Oh it's so bad, but nothing can be done, /shrug, people who get angry at this are obviously racists, arabs and north africans aren't particularly overrepresented in these sorts of crimes, only a racist would say that, it's just assholes in general". Keep dancing around the obvious issue, or you could just retreat to your feinting couch and "stop instantly" whenever you perceive wrongthink, as you usually do. .

It's probably the first time that you actually write "a lot of ME/NA immigrants and refugees" instead of just "all of them". And now I can actually agree with it for the most part.
How can we have a proper discussion about something if the terminology is all over the place?
I do see most of the issues that you see. Yes, probably a lot of young men do not treat or respect women as our societies in Europe do, for the most part. It's not like it's unheard of that some lower social and educational layers of the French/German/UK (and all the others) society have a lot of young men talking "bitch" and how they need "to get fucked real hard all day long, that cunt". Can you truly say that there is no lack respect in certain social circles amongst "true" French dudes? We certainly have those kind of assholes in Germany. But again, yes, there is very likely a majority of young immigrant men who do not respect women - I am not arguing against your point there - merely saying that it's not solely to be found within the immigrants. Are those immigrant men more likely to actually "act on it" compared to our native assholes? Honestly, I do not know but prolly I tend more to say "yes" than "no" if I am forced to give an answer.
Not gonna go through your list in detail now but they are similar in the answer you'd get from me.

The new thing about Cologne was the scale. Women have been attacked at all times. But the amount and scale is new.
Domestic violence is a thing. At always was and it will be in the future. It's one of the major issues the police has to deal with on a daily basis. It is in itself nothing new.
I kinda lost myself at this point. Don't really remember what I wanted to write... :?

Anyway, one thing I would like to say too:
I had the chance to talk to a bunch of freshly arrived refugees since there is a tent camp directly next to my University building... at some point you just start talking with each other. Well, at least when they are able to communicate in basic English. Which is rare enough... unfortunately.
I talked to probably more than 10 refugees but let's just assume 10 to get the relations easier.
At least 8 of those 10 told me that they honestly do have a hard time to get their heads wrapped around all the freedoms people have. That they can say what they want, mostly do what they want and nobody seems to bothered with all the "crazy" things. But they all said that it's something they have to and want to learn. And that should be supported.
6 out of those 10 were drinking beer at 10am while talking with them... that's something worrying in my book.
And 9 out of 10 are moving and acting very carefully. They all said that they are very grateful for being here and getting a chance. But they all feel and realize the pressure inside the society. They don't wanna piss anyone off, no stress with the police, just a place to live and a job.

Arguably that is hardly representative but neither is Cologne.

There are assholes and there are non-assholes. It's up to the police and the law to filter the assholes out. The mechanisms for dealing with assholes are already in place. It's time to use them properly.
For example, I have no idea why the police in Cologne did not intervene there. And that is a different but not less important matter.
The right to use violence is within the State. So, why wasn't it used? I am all for the use of force in such occasions.

I don't feel like I am dancing around the issue. But I don't wanna pre-judge anyone just based on the place where he/she is coming from.

Edit:

Koln police were completely overwhelmed. One of the victims was a policewoman herself. And this is only in Koln. Same thing happened in other german cities, Frankfurt drawing a little bit of attention as well. Police authority is mostly an illusion. All it takes is a large enough and motivated enough group to realize they outnumber the police and they are completely powerless. Especially german police that have been hamstrung by ridiculous "rules of engagement", slashbacked budgets everywhere and a topdown drive to make women police officers more common. And oooh do woman police officers enrage these assholes. The jails were so full they literally could not take any more offenders, even if they had wanted to.

And there's pressure from the government to keep these sorts of delicate issues under the rug. It's why the reports of New Year's Eve from Koln police were initially "all quiet on the western front", as if absolutely nothing out of the ordinary had happened. It took local news and social media pressure for the government and state media to even begin to accept it happened at all, much less to adress the issue.

This is at least my impression from the outside, although I am not german and do not live there.
This is pretty much true.
Tho it should have been easy enough to get a few hundred officers from other places and a rather short amount of time.
They managed to protect the fucking G7 with 24.000 officers...

Why not? Why it won't solve a problem with refugees, at least partially? And to be honest I don't understand why it's so big issues, closing borders. It's not like all people around the world have some divine right to go wherever they want.

Guns don't kill people... It's like saying that in the early nineties polakos didn't steal cars in germany, thieves did. But we did!  :wink:
...cuz they gonna find a way around the fence eventually. And then what? Shoot them?
Just because you closed the border doesn't mean they suddenly say "Oh, well, goes I'm not fleeing then! Unpack the bags, kids."
And can hardly let them freeze or starve to death at your border, can you?
It's naive to think that closing borders will solve anything.

And it weren't only Polish who stole cars. Russians too. Pretty much the whole Eastern block. But hey, Poland prolly held the crown back then, that's true :wink:

2016 is going to be a hell of a year  :rolleyes:
I'm afraid so.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 11:30:22 am by Molly »
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Offline Paul

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2016, 11:45:13 am »
+2
...cuz they gonna find a way around the fence eventually. And then what? Shoot them?
Just because you closed the border doesn't mean they suddenly say "Oh, well, goes I'm not fleeing then! Unpack the bags, kids."
And can hardly let them freeze or starve to death at your border, can you?
It's naive to think that closing borders will solve anything.

And what is a rhetorical question for you is a very good option for others. That's what I would call the unbridgeable differences that form gaps between posters in so many threads here.

Offline Oberyn

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2016, 11:52:44 am »
+2
Sorry, but there is no comparison with the natives. Hell, there's no comparison with any of the other minority groups that also happen to live in Europe. There are dozens of different ethnicities living in Germany, yes? Is this also an expected and normal occurance from all of them? Or is it only expected and normal coming from a certain minority group? You don't see a clear relation between the pre-existing reality of arab/north africa and turkish muslim men being disproportionately represented in violent sexual crimes for decades, and what happened on new year's eve in various german cities? Between their cultural/religious expectations and their actions?
The police themselves have said the groups were "organized". This apparently wasn't some sort of organic rape fest, ala Lora Logan in Egypt. This was a deliberate message, as was harassing people with fireworks in front of the cathedral. Can you imagine if a group of drunken germans had done the same in front of a mosque over new year's eve, while other groups of violent drunken germans went around sexually violating any woman that wasn't german, threatening and commiting violence if resisted? The message that would send would be loud and clear, and the first people to call out about systemic and ingrained cultural problems that led to it would be germans themselves, probably while whipping themselves and crying tears of guilt and regret, but it's arab/na muslims and all of a sudden it's a subtle, nuanced problem for which there is no clear responsability, certainly not their culture or their religion. It's just a general, diffused malaise that cannot be identified. Strange.

In any case, I really doubt the majority were recently arrived refugees.
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Offline Molly

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2016, 12:17:56 pm »
-1
I don't think that I ever wrote that the issue is not within the cultural difference and that it can be very well based in the religion.
I am pretty sure it is connected. It was never about that for me.

It's about the generalization. Many, maybe lots do have different views on things due to being brought up in a different culture. Harmful views? Yes, lots of them.
But there are examples of people learning, adapting, integrating.

And on a side note: I'd rather change street side seeing 5 drunken Russians ahead than 5 drunken Turks/Arabs. Just based on personal experience.

Right now I am treat lightly around this Cologne business cuz there seem to be hardly any proven facts yet. Some say it was mainly a robbery, some say it was aimed at women, some say they were mostly refugees, some say this, some say that...
That was my biggest issue right from the start. The coverage of all the refugee-business right from the start was shit. Either you get those hand clapping idiots at the train station or you get some lowlife white-trash yelling bullshit. It's so hard to find reliable, straight facts - for me it's just difficult to actually have a proper opinion on anything atm. And this is ongoing for months now.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: "Cologne sex attacks"
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2016, 12:28:17 pm »
+4
Sure, so your primary worry is not the people being victimized right now, your people incidentally, but I might just as well say random human being whom you have no particular attachment to, but the potential future innocent victims of lowlife white-trash. There's harmful "views", and your people will suffer from them, but it's all good, because there's also other people benefitting and profitting from your generosity. It's ok, you're not the only one, there's always crying about the fearful expected backlash, just like muslims were going to be hunted down and killed by angry FN after all the french terrorist attacks, only thing Salon types could seem to worry about. I don't personally see how proper border and immigration control, managed by even the most backwards and undevelopped countries, is somehow beyond the reach of european countries, or how it would be a violent, racist act to implement them. To present mass immigration as a fait accompli (for western countries only, of course) is typical, but it's, from my perspective, massively ignorant. 
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