Go get ashieldmelee weapon.
It looks like ranged will either have to suffer the consequences of having a pure ranged build or will have to change themselves to be able to fight in melee to counter melee. Just like how every other class is supposed to "get a shield" you should "get a melee weapon".
It was a choice between making certain ammo 2 slots, ~ the same ammo, and twice the weight, or 1 slot with less ammo. The amount of ammo at +3 was also increased slightly to 135%.
With 21-24 and 24-21 builds as a standard and ~28% more damage than before compared to melee's 16%, how much should ammo increase?
Assuming 2 stacks standard:
Arrows: 42
Barbed: 36
Tatar: 30
Bodkin: 26
In a standard round ~3 minutes of fighting at 180 seconds, You can consistently shoot every 4-7 seconds depending on what ammo you use. Also consider the fact that you can loot arrows on the ground and full quivers instantly next to any dead archer. With this in mind, how much ammo per round do you think an archer should have? Even though all bows received -3 damage, that's the equivalent of +2 accuracy for all bows as well.
Edit: I'll ask about increasing the ammo count by a few more and see how that works out.
I'm 2h hero, cock guzzler. I have a HA alt and it went from being fun and not very useful to being totally useless and not fun at all.
I think i picked wrong time to go archer.
Let me tell you test results from eu3.MW rus bow + MW bodkins.Took 9 fucking arrows on chest to take down a heavy tier armor guy and i did that with 12PD(i know 10 max effective).I then tried it with 8PD and it was still the same 9arrows..
Hell, steve is fine with it
Thanks for the responses. I think I underestimated the amount of increase in armor. We had to be careful for any possible extreme builds popping up that may dominate the server. I believe that the concept of increased weight won't change since it promotes unhealthy play, even though it punishes those who don't really intend to play that way. I do think that ammo levels should be at a comfortable level, though, but below a point where it's exploited (I have a problem with 3 stacks personally).
Overall, I'm seeing:
-Damage back: likely to be a steady increase vs. all at once if it passes.
-Ammo back: likely if damage potential for current builds are very lackluster.
From the perspective of an archer, what would be good ways to make 10-11ath kiting builds less attractive? Archers can only be slowed down so much before it hurts the average build too much and make only the extreme builds viable. I'm a fan of arrows being 2 slot with more arrows per quiver, but it has a number of downsides for hybrids/weapon choice. There's still a lot that's wait and see, but I think a small bump may be a decent first step as archers adapt to balanced builds and strength leans becoming more viable.
Currently the most viable build i tried with an archer is 30 15, the accuracy is even better then pre-patch 18 21 and you at least do some damage. With 5 ath though you are completely useless in melee. Oh and btw guys with higher armour usually take at least 3 headshots to kill.
While at the same time, all other builds received a huge buff and and now every tin can is faster then you (even with a 18 24 build). Because it's an stf, 18 27 proved to be not a good build since you only have 2 PS.
Thanks for the responses. I think I underestimated the amount of increase in armor. We had to be careful for any possible extreme builds popping up that may dominate the server. I believe that the concept of increased weight won't change since it promotes unhealthy play, even though it punishes those who don't really intend to play that way. I do think that ammo levels should be at a comfortable level, though, but below a point where it's exploited (I have a problem with 3 stacks personally).
Overall, I'm seeing:
-Damage back: likely to be a steady increase vs. all at once if it passes.
-Ammo back: likely if damage potential for current builds are very lackluster.
From the perspective of an archer, what would be good ways to make 10-11ath kiting builds less attractive? Archers can only be slowed down so much before it hurts the average build too much and make only the extreme builds viable. I'm a fan of arrows being 2 slot with more arrows per quiver, but it has a number of downsides for hybrids/weapon choice. There's still a lot that's wait and see, but I think a small bump may be a decent first step as archers adapt to balanced builds and strength leans becoming more viable.
Algarn, havent you paid any attention to what the heavy-armour wearing 8+ athletics players have been saying every time we suggested increasing armour difficulty, 'armour totally negates athletics', therefore if you and everyone else think that people are running faster in servers now it's just your imagination...
If everyone else agrees with you that there are way too many agi-whores in heraldic trans and higher armour, then it is also their imagination because such a build is 100% *not* viable because armour 100% negates athletics and on an unrelated note I think that agility could use a buff, also nerf damage on ranged, if anyone disagrees with me they're trying to kill variety in this mod! Those many many varied 21/24 builds or similar...
Also buff agilityNo, please not this again :lol:
Thanks for the responses. I think I underestimated the amount of increase in armor. We had to be careful for any possible extreme builds popping up that may dominate the server. I believe that the concept of increased weight won't change since it promotes unhealthy play, even though it punishes those who don't really intend to play that way. I do think that ammo levels should be at a comfortable level, though, but below a point where it's exploited (I have a problem with 3 stacks personally).Can't we keep the archery damage as it is for a couple of days longer before anything is decided?
Overall, I'm seeing:
-Damage back: likely to be a steady increase vs. all at once if it passes.
-Ammo back: likely if damage potential for current builds are very lackluster.
From the perspective of an archer, what would be good ways to make 10-11ath kiting builds less attractive? Archers can only be slowed down so much before it hurts the average build too much and make only the extreme builds viable. I'm a fan of arrows being 2 slot with more arrows per quiver, but it has a number of downsides for hybrids/weapon choice. There's still a lot that's wait and see, but I think a small bump may be a decent first step as archers adapt to balanced builds and strength leans becoming more viable.
Can't we keep the archery damage as it is for a couple of days longer before anything is decided?
Can't we keep the archery damage as it is for a couple of days longer before anything is decided?
I have 18 Str, 5IF in ranged leather and die to 3 arrows. That doesn't seem low damage to me. 2h heroes need 2 hits. Not much of a gap honestly.
(click to show/hide)
The trouble andy is that now you don't do damage against other archers either. It took a guy with an mw horn bow 5 shots to get me almost dead then someone ran me over with a horse while I was using my dedicated archer.
You were practically no armour molly (I'm guess 30-35). Also the long bow is much less of an issue than the rest of the bows which now are mostly just fire wood.
IMO longbow should be 31 dmg like in the bad old good old days and the yumi should be 25 and then you go back one point at a time down to the nomad bow at 21 and the short bow also at 21.
Make the bow 26 and the rus bow 28.
Problem, mostly solved. If they did that and made them less accurate they could probably keep the ammo some what low.
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Random idea
Make quivers 2 slot but put the bodkins at 25 shots and then go up from there.
Then make the short bow a 0 slot bow.
Bodkins should not weigh 8 and only have 10 arrows per
same goes with the rest of the arrows some players can take more then 10 shots to kills them
gotta love how you nerfed bows more aswell
Brilliant idea to nerf archery when everyone is going to get more than 65 hp and plate + shield. Come with more retarded ideas like having 10 bodkins into a quiver that weights 8kg, and 14 in a quiver of 10kg.
archery is a joke now it was all ready nerfed and shitty
Yet you can't even do something simple like increase the head shot damage to make horn bow, rus bow and long bow kill in 1 head shot which is something to reward the skilled archers.
Can't wait to get run down by some tin can who absorbed all my arrows.
Yeah nice, Accuracy buff that is useless. Why would I want 2 stacks of arrows that weight 10 KG each....either way I don't care went lancer cawawee now.
Based on the balancer and event manager's comments on here its clear that this mod is trying to remove archery all together. I mean xbows haven't been touched and neither have 2handers. Which is all the devs seem to play. Just wait for bannerlord.
Random idea
Make quivers 2 slot but put the bodkins at 25 shots and then go up from there.
Then make the short bow a 0 slot bow.
So 24-21 / 27-18 archers seem to be the new meta? I still think ammo can increase by 2-3, still less than before though. I'm hesitant on any large jumps between patches if things do change, because archers have yet to acclimate to the best builds for the patch. Other balancers seem to be playing archer builds recently so they'll probably get more robust results than me (I usually play throwers).
Actually the current meta is use a long bow. That's about what it comes down to.
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As for HA I've found it's viable to not put any points into WM at 24 agi with 3HA, I'll hit 4HA next lvl and it should improve a fair bit more. However stacking more str for PD is very hard. I'm lvl 33 and it looks likely that even at 35 the build will still be horribly underpowered. I'm going to rework my STF to test it out a little more.
The biggest problem isn't that you can't do damage as an archer full stop, it's that you have to have +3 long bow with +3 bodkins. If you don't have that, then you ain't got shit.
I don't know anything about the code, but it seems like MnB/cRPG would have a hard time implementing two versions of the "same" ammo type (eg; big bag/small bag bodkins) in a sensible manner.
I'm assuming that each ammo type is its own unique object, and that "big_bag_bodkins" and "small_bag_bodkins" couldn't be stored in the same quiver (much in the same way that +0*ammunition* and +3*ammunition* are technically distinct).
So 24-21 / 27-18 archers seem to be the new meta? I still think ammo can increase by 2-3, still less than before though. I'm hesitant on any large jumps between patches if things do change, because archers have yet to acclimate to the best builds for the patch. Other balancers seem to be playing archer builds recently so they'll probably get more robust results than me (I usually play throwers).
Go get ashieldmelee weapon.
It looks like ranged will either have to suffer the consequences of having a pure ranged build or will have to change themselves to be able to fight in melee to counter melee. Just like how every other class is supposed to "get a shield" you should "get a melee weapon".
they dont give a fuck of archery their goal is just to kill a class like they did with all horse ranged ....
plz dont speak about stuff you dont know ....
we was able to defend in melee before ... but now we are forced to be full str build with low ath heavy amount of arrows to carry when they push all class to be agiwhore ...
10 pd make us more accurate than 10 wm ... fucking retard merican logic !!
and about arrows yeah this amount is so fucking retarded, its fucking impossible to do long range shot now coz in 2 sec you gonna be empty ...
and one day i hope devs will understand than archery is best way to balance cavs population and vice versa ....
last patch was a fucking huge cav buff by nerfing archers ....
plz devs give up with crpg leave developent job plz ... patch after patch it's worst ....
all community regret the crpg of 4 years ago ... devs know one word .. no no it's not balancing... it's nerf !!
they always fix a problem by adding an other problem instead
pure example :
omg ha are too accurate instead of nerf their accuracy lets decrease their horse speed ....
FUCKING GENIUS IDEA !!!!.... where is the logic ??
have you see tydeus play with his archer ?
he stick with all team and shoot from 2 meter maximum right in melee ... if he could he would use a shotgun ...
but he know archery you know ...
FUCKING GENIUS !!!!
He posted some possible stats, so it would help for the few archers on forums to comment on that. Only saw HappyPhantom so far.
Ideologically, what do you think about light archers being mobile with limited ammo/power while heavy archers are around the same as now, maybe with a tiny bit more damage or ammo for everyone? Light archers will have trouble defending a position and go through shots quickly, but they'll be able to relocate and scavenge for ammo. Str archers will be good at defending a single spot with melee support.
Please... Try archer...
Make an alt char. Please.
We are going nowhere with no discussion. I'm not great enough in archery to make judgements just from playing, so the easiest way is to ask those experienced what kind of play will be balanced, but enjoyable. Pros and cons for any choice while avoiding toxic scenarios.
20 bodkins max does suck considering how many shots it can take to take down one plated knight/horse.
We are going nowhere with no discussion. I'm not great enough in archery to make judgements just from playing, so the easiest way is to ask those experienced what kind of play will be balanced, but enjoyable. Pros and cons for any choice while avoiding toxic scenarios.
I still see just as many archers as ever, and they are still annoying. I didnt feel they needed a big nerf like this but i have dreamt for a long time of ammo nerfs.
I find that post quite funny considering it comes from an item advisor :D
Ideologically, what do you think about light archers being mobile with limited ammo/power while heavy archers are around the same as now, maybe with a tiny bit more damage or ammo for everyone? Light archers will have trouble defending a position and go through shots quickly, but they'll be able to relocate and scavenge for ammo. Str archers will be good at defending a single spot with melee support.
....
Basically, whenever a patch hits, everyone will adapt, and this latest patch has caused archers to spec primarily into high PD builds.
The highest damage builds are always going to win out, and we saw this about a year and a half ago when the Nomad Bow turned laser accurate.
Bad archers were able to hit everything and be remarkably annoying because of the accuracy (and partly missile speed, of course), and the good archers turned into utterly terrifying headshot machines.
Either way, I think it'd be good to see a veteran high PD archer and a veteran low PD archer take roles in item balancing, assuming they seem reasonable and honest.
I still see just as many archers as ever, and they are still annoying. I didnt feel they needed a big nerf like this but i have dreamt for a long time of ammo nerfs.
so to me put back armor penetration
put quiver to 7 or 8 max
give us back our amount of arrows
remove this system of "pd now give accuracy", dont tell me it always been like this coz it was not !!!it appear with this famous bug/wrong code
keep damage nerf on bows and arrows
so to me put back armor penetration
put quiver to 7 or 8 max
give us back our amount of arrows
remove this system of "pd now give accuracy", dont tell me it always been like this coz it was not !!!it appear with this famous bug/wrong code
keep damage nerf on bows and arrows
just imagine you as archer
you need to have lot of str to deal damage and be accurate around 27 or 30 str
you also have to carry 20 kg for 2 quiver who give you 20 arrows in total if not loomed (1 arrow = 1 kg lel )
so you have low ath and move like a turtle but all other class are full agi ...
think also there is still those shit ghost arrows or the cav lag who let arrows pass through so you gonna waste tons of arrows but you aim well
that mean even ranged can hardly kill other ranged at long range coz not enough arrows, you gonna try 2 or 3 shoot then miss and change target
when this enemie archer is raping your team on his roof or broken tower like it happen for me today
so to be clear we cant kill cavs , we cant rly kill other ranged (only if close or middle range) what we gonna shoot now ?
yeah we just gonna focus more on infantrie...
before patch and after, problem still not fixed and inf will still cry
and also there is nothing anymore to counter cavs ...
so every map the team who get all cavs just have to fight half a team coz their enemies get spawnkill ...
also why u dont increase bolts weight ?
how many times i shoot an xbower then he run away with his 8/9/10 ath to reload then he disapear...
same for throwers
why xbowers and thrower can still kite and be fast as fuck ???
try to kill an agi thrower i bet you die in 2 sec
-PD has always increased accuracy, or at least likely since the beginning times of cRPG. How else would high PD builds be accurate with low wpf?
-Bodkins at +0 is quite low. How many arrows is comfortable per round at minimum?
just imagine you as archer
you need to have lot of str to deal damage and be accurate around 27 or 30 str
you also have to carry 20 kg for 2 quiver who give you 20 arrows in total if not loomed (1 arrow = 1 kg lel )
so you have low ath and move like a turtle but all other class are full agi ...
think also there is still those shit ghost arrows or the cav lag who let arrows pass through so you gonna waste tons of arrows but you aim well
that mean even ranged can hardly kill other ranged at long range coz not enough arrows, you gonna try 2 or 3 shoot then miss and change target
when this enemie archer is raping your team on his roof or broken tower like it happen for me today
so to be clear we cant kill cavs , we cant rly kill other ranged (only if close or middle range) what we gonna shoot now ?
yeah we just gonna focus more on infantrie...
before patch and after, problem still not fixed and inf will still cry
and also there is nothing anymore to counter cavs ...
so every map the team who get all cavs just have to fight half a team coz their enemies get spawnkill ...
also why u dont increase bolts weight ?
how many times i shoot an xbower then he run away with his 8/9/10 ath to reload then he disapear...
same for throwers
why xbowers and thrower can still kite and be fast as fuck ???
try to kill an agi thrower i bet you die in 2 sec
-Armor penetration is pretty much a 25%-30% increase in final damage on average and doesn't change low PD vs plate at all.
it got decreased few patch ago to nerf ha, before that we was fine against plated not op but fine, does 6 pd is low pd for you ? to me it's high
-Put quiver to 7 or 8 = weight? I think the game can handle this just fine
maybe the game yeah but try to survive at one 2h agiwhore charging you , you will maybe have time to shoot 2 arrows, probably miss one and then you are dead coz you have no night to shoot an other one and was to heavy to get the small distance from him who could allow to shoot an other arrow.
maybe the game can handle this but not archers with 2 quivers.
-How much ammo is gotten back depends on the other changes, especially weight
just stop fucing everything give us back our ammount of arrows like it was...
-PD has always increased accuracy, or at least likely since the beginning times of cRPG. How else would high PD builds be accurate with low wpf?
yeah maybe but it was not significant compare to wpf, now having 9 or 10 pd is a fucking requierement
i have 8pd 140 wpf and i'm still not accurate as a 10 pd 120 wpf
why pd is giving so much accuracy now ? it's retarded and make wpf totaly useless
and god damit try to survive as archer with 20 kg and 4 ath i give you 2 sec and you will do 2 meter from spawn
-Contradicts the armor penetration statement.
-Bodkins at +0 is quite low. How many arrows is comfortable per round at minimum?
-Part of some horses' bellies can't get hit by ranged.
-Heavy cav's durability was decreased, so it should be around the same as it was before against them.
-The argument of ranged vs ranged isn't convincing. Both are somewhat slow and accuracy is better.
-Steel bolt weight was increased, ammo was decreased, and they don't get much from high levels except for better hybridization. Throwing damage and speed were decreased and 4 stacks of most of the best throwing weapons are ~12-16 weight.
Thank you San for the well -thought out post. Reading an intelligent discussion rather than some guy's "gut feel" for archery based mostly on a day of trying different bows is such a welcome relief and promotes an actual intelligent discussion on the accurate situation we are placed in.
I would like to propose two different possibilities.
First, make the lower tier bows near same damage with high-tier but with MUCH worse accuracy - basically the strings are not as strong and so the arrows don't fly as true. Long range shots would just be a waste of ammo usually unless shooting into a crowd. The reason why do it this way is that 1) varying the damage too much among the various bows creates a lot more possibilities for broken min-max builds and imbalances and 2) shoot speed has a lot of secondary side-effects that wreck the usability of bows or create unforeseen side-effects (decreased damage, massively increased drop in arrows so arc effects, lobbing over shield walls etc.) (also why when last time shoot speed was heavily nerfed it was reverted back rather quickly and many of the low -tier bows were actually given increased shoot speed later to actually make them viable).
The effect of this would be for low tier bows a lot of close to mid range shots using strong intuition of opponents' movements and a primary purpose of crowd control (shooting into massed up groups), whereas the higher tier bows would do slightly more damage, mostly due to higher powerdraw and serve their role as long range firing but with 2 slots being limited in either ammo or melee weapon, requiring a stronger focus on dedicated archer build. (Think of longbow as a strong wood and sinew weapon that shoots the arrows straighter and more true to aim). But the higher accuracy also comes with slower draw speed (and i would also consider changing weights of bows to make the biggest bows closer to flamberge weight further reducing kiting - you are serving as an accurate long-range high-damage weapon with limited mobility requiring stronger team support. Kiting by low tier bow users would also be significantly reduced because the low accuracy makes single unit targetting much harder making a single melee chaser have a much easier time dodging their arrows and therefore forcing melee combat. Mid-tier bows would possibly be a balance between the two but with enough lower accuracy compared to longbow, rus bow, bow (the 3 two slot bows) to not become the OP weapons of choice for archers, but rather a selective class weapon like for the few remaining ha who don't need quite as much accuracy but need the slightly higher damage.
The second possibility is this. Make lowest tier bows extremely heavy but also have the highest accuracy rankings (not as realistic as 1st possibility). They would be the go to item for high agility archers still with the highest accuracy with these bows providing a good use of wpf allowing the headshots needed for extra damage, but between the weight of ammo and the bow their hyper mobility will be significantly reduced. The high strength archers would still use the higher tier bows to make good use of their powerdraw (since would have wasted PD points with the lowest tier bows), but with the lower accuracy it would be more a high damage crowd damager as no amount of wpf would be able to counter the significantly reduced accuracy.
I prefer the 1st possibility. But whichever way you go you need to realize roles are very important especially when it comes to how they play out on strategus. Xbowers are the selective snipers. Archers need at least some part of their class serve their main purpose - crowd control. Can't emphasize this enough. Archers main purpose is crowd control in the end as massed shield walls and masssed charges they damage and kill and break up formations, forcing greater dispersal or else guaranteeing countless hits by massed archers. Secondary role is strong anti-ranged counter which is where having some bows with good accuracy kicks in. Playing on battle server is only about 1/3rd of the equation when trying to understand archery's role in game - archery is an incredibly weak class in general that gains (and should gain) most of its strength in coordinated group play, ala strategus and banner stacks.
I just wanted to say, thank you san for asking questions of the community and actually listening and giving well-thought out posts. Makes those of us in the community who still care about the game want to reply in kind. You are a good item balancer (I wish very much you were the head one).
I'll get around to it, a lot to read on just my phone :)
With 21-24 and 24-21 builds as a standard and ~28% more damage than before compared to melee's 16%, how much should ammo increase?
Assuming 2 stacks standard:
Arrows: 42
Barbed: 36
Tatar: 30
Bodkin: 26
In a standard round ~3 minutes of fighting at 180 seconds, You can consistently shoot every 4-7 seconds depending on what ammo you use. Also consider the fact that you can loot arrows on the ground and full quivers instantly next to any dead archer. With this in mind, how much ammo per round do you think an archer should have? Even though all bows received -3 damage, that's the equivalent of +2 accuracy for all bows as well.
Edit: I'll ask about increasing the ammo count by a few more and see how that works out.
How about we get rid of the increased break chance for arrows!
Had to make a new reply it kept deleting what I was posting.(click to show/hide)
1/3 hp after being shot up(click to show/hide)(click to show/hide)
1/3 hp after taking 42 arrows.
The nomad bow is no longer viable, arrows are also no longer viable.
Thanks for the responses. I think I underestimated the amount of increase in armor. We had to be careful for any possible extreme builds popping up that may dominate the server. I believe that the concept of increased weight won't change since it promotes unhealthy play, even though it punishes those who don't really intend to play that way. I do think that ammo levels should be at a comfortable level, though, but below a point where it's exploited (I have a problem with 3 stacks personally).
Overall, I'm seeing:
-Damage back: likely to be a steady increase vs. all at once if it passes.
-Ammo back: likely if damage potential for current builds are very lackluster.
From the perspective of an archer, what would be good ways to make 10-11ath kiting builds less attractive? Archers can only be slowed down so much before it hurts the average build too much and make only the extreme builds viable. I'm a fan of arrows being 2 slot with more arrows per quiver, but it has a number of downsides for hybrids/weapon choice. There's still a lot that's wait and see, but I think a small bump may be a decent first step as archers adapt to balanced builds and strength leans becoming more viable.
i still get 1hit from body shots while wearing 40 body armor (0 if, with 18/24)
archery was balanced? is funny joke yes? you funny man.
I'm all for these archery changes, make them less useful as pure archer, try to force melee on them.
Hell, steve is fine with it
Bump! Fun fact 5 bags of rocks weigh less then 1 quiver of bodkins
5 bags = 60 rocks 1 quiver = 10 arrows
If my old friendgits didnt run, there wouldnt be need for weighted arrows.
If "my old friendgits" didn't chase me, there would be no need for running.
Cap archer ath so you can't kite and are easier to bumpslash
That's just mean though. I prefer a solution I have been working on, try to follow this as the numbers can get complicated:
If a player puts points into Powerdraw, any WPF into archery, or any WPF into crossbow, when they hit save on website they have their account closed, their cd key banned, and their IP blocked automatically. This way we dont punish anyone with punitive gameplay, and everyone that matters has a better time all round.
You're far too kind to ranged filth.
Archers don't need more ammo.
Pick them up off the floor.
Archers don't need more ammo.For non loomed arrows there are not enought of them. For MW it could be fine , but still some ppl can run really fast and still survive 4 body shots. Example from today: Saxon survived 4 body shots from me(9 PD), If melee will have same dmg with 9 ps with most powerfull weapon accesible for them i thing there would be an ocean of tears and encyklopedia of QQ because of that :)
Pick them up off the floor.
Saxon has 50 strength though Steevee
Example from today: Saxon survived 4 body shots from me
Well the truth is them 4 arrows you hit me with were so random in damage i was proper confused, full hp and the first arrow you hit did like 70-80% followed by 2 or 3 more which did next to nothing, its just the fact that no matter how much patience you have there was no chance of me getting to melee distance with you while you had arrows left, even if i did all archers have near enough the same melee output as me so even though i have to endure 4 arrows before i even get to you i then have to fight a fully efficient melee player which i have to hit 2 or more times. its not compatible. you can't have the best of both worlds.
Well the truth is them 4 arrows you hit me with were so random in damage i was proper confused, full hp and the first arrow you hit did like 70-80% followed by 2 or 3 more which did next to nothing, its just the fact that no matter how much patience you have there was no chance of me getting to melee distance with you while you had arrows left, even if i did all archers have near enough the same melee output as me so even though i have to endure 4 arrows before i even get to you i then have to fight a fully efficient melee player which i have to hit 2 or more times. its not compatible. you can't have the best of both worlds.still, that was a gg from your sideand you deserve to win, and everyone knows i suck in melee ^^
Frank if you think Horse archery is bad now, you should know its not much different; pre-patch I could literally shoot maple syrup 41 times with a +3 Tatar bow +3 Tatar arrows and to make it worse about 10 of those where headshots not to mention about 10-15 horse bumps from a +3 eastern warhorse. :lol: (He chased me around for 6 minutes and will be the first to tell you how annoying the experience was.) Now you barely go fast enough to do any damage with a horse bump, and your arrows glance 95% of the time and you are limited to about 30 arrows ...GL shooting toothpicks archers.
Xbow got nerfed indirectly as well by the increase in armor and strength that came with the patch.
the nerf directly to it was just weight increase and bolt count decrease which doesn't do a fucking thing since there is no way you could ever use all of your bolts in a round anyway... unless you are using a pea shooter crossbow which does laughable damage anyway.