cRPG
Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Tomas on December 12, 2012, 05:52:21 pm
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Here's my attempt to describe the most important problems with Strat 4 and then identify solutions to solve them with the minimum of work :D
Problem 1: Too much of an advantage for defenders after winning a siege.
Solution 1: Destroyed walls should stay destroyed for a minimum of 24 hours after a battle and after that they should have to be repaired using PP.
Result: If you re-attack a Fief within 24 hours you don't have to redestroy the walls. After that you may or may not have to depending on whether or not any PP have been saved up for repairs.
Problem 2: Voting is a bit too hardcore
Possible Solution 2: Remove the element of choice for normal faction members and make them automatically vote for their own faction in their nearest fief. Faction Leaders then select a candidate for each fief from the list of their members voting for the specific fief. So if 3 of my players vote for Jelbegi, I pick which one of them they are all voting for. To stop clans amassing votes there should be a gradual penalty in vote strength for clans over 100 members. To stop people joining other factions just for the voting then there should be a Strat Tick cost for swapping factions - you can go negative in Strat ticks due to this but won't be productive again until you regain the lost ticks.
Result: Hopefully less stress on vote day :D
Problem 3: It can be hard for small clans to fill rosters
Solution 3: Smaller rosters for smaller battles. Big battles (1000vs1000 and over) should stay at 50vs50 but the small 100vs100 battles should decrease to 15vs15 imo instead of the current 25vs25 (ish). Everything in between then scales. On top of this allow all players to create a pseudonym for playing strat anonymously. If your cover gets blown its your own fault but you can fight and build the reputaion of your fake character as if it were your main and use it to fight without worrying about diplomacy.
Result: Easier to fill rosters
Problem 4: Hard for individuals to protect what they have vs bigger clans/alliances
Solution 4: Increase the level of free gear slightly and then give it to both sides in all battles, regardless of what gear they already have. I'm talking Aketons, Nasal Helmets, Hunting Corssbows, Nomad Bows and Simple Swords here.
Result: No naked battles ever and the gap between the best and worst equipped armies is narrowed.
Result:
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Problem 1: You proposed interesting solution, would be cool if this would be implemented, but much easier and more important - change current loot system. Maybe it is realistic, but it favour winning battles and encourage defensive careful playing even more, which makes strat less fun
Problem 2: Agree.
Problem 3: Completely agree and it is very important, would make strat more playable for small factions/individuals
Problem 4: Not sure here, solution from problem 3 should help here as well. But well, it may result in more small fun battles, so should be ok.
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1 agree
2 no
3 don't really care about 100v100 battles
4 no
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Problem 3: It can be hard for small clans to fill rosters
Solution 3: Smaller rosters for smaller battles. Big battles (1000vs1000 and over) should stay at 50vs50 but the small 100vs100 battles should decrease to 15vs15 imo instead of the current 25vs25 (ish). Everything in between then scales. On top of this allow all players to create a pseudonym for playing strat anonymously. If your cover gets blown its your own fault but you can fight and build the reputaion of your fake character as if it were your main and use it to fight without worrying about diplomacy.
Result: Easier to fill rosters
How about letting skip-the-fun characters sign up for strat battles? The tradeoff would be no xp but you could change their names easily. Also it'd let people make use of more types of gear, imagine massive cav only or horse archer battles. When was the last time you saw horse archers in strat? If a clan wanted to roleplay a Mongol style horde, there you go.
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Yes Knute! There are big factions without a remarkable number of archers, heavy cavalry or shielders. I don't know just do it.
Also STF characters level 30 is not good enough. It should be level 31 to have a complete build in most cases.
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STF/Alt characters able to play strategus would def be a big big win.
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Problem 4: IMO this is a problem with S&D. Individuals and small clans can't keep up with large clans in regards to money and as such are always out geared.
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1. yes
2. no
3. ok
4. no
For #1, I think that aside from castles, defenders have way too high of an advantage even in field battles. With the new spawn timer system, it makes it really hard for attackers to win in time; all the defense has to do is simply camp.
#3, imo just allow alts to be able to fight in battles, and pseudonyms or whatever are no longer an issue.
#2, Voting imo is fine as it is
#4 imo is more of a problem with the new equipment buying system where you have to spec PP in order to get usable gear. It's highly unlikely that anyone will spec low level gear in their fiefs, so it becomes really hard for casuals to gear their armies. Better solution I think would be to make it so that most cheap gear is +0 by default in fiefs. I really don't support better free gear. That would give too much of an advantage to turtling with population in fiefs and defense in general.
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Increasing free gear is idiotic, if you don't buy gear you deserve to get attacked, imo free gear should only be low tier no block peasant 1hs, stones, and a few shirts.
And my faction consists of less than 15 players..
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3 don't really care about 100v100 battles
Ye, me too, because most of the time defenders have no gear and are outnumbered heavily so it's not worth to participate in such battles. But with good default gear and smaller rosters battles with 100 ticks could be funny :) I really liked small battles with cheap gear at the beginning of this round.
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I agree with shik.
breaking a wall should carry over. I would also love to see the option to destroy a fief when u win instead of just capturing it. Would make the map.smaller over the round and more competitive. If that is to extreme maybe raze it which knocks the fief back to zero points and does not let you accumulate the points or something for a length of time.
alt would be cool to use. exp goes to main like strat ticks
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We really need a system of appeals for glitched battles/random buggy shit that results in huge losses for the victim. A system that works and is done in a timely manner as well. Strat is a numbers game, and losing numbers to bugs is something that really has to be dealt with. This strat in particular has had alot of stupid shit happen to all of us.
And of course battle times, suprised that wasnt in OP.
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Problem 4: Hard for individuals to protect what they have vs bigger clans/alliances
Solution 4: Increase the level of free gear slightly and then give it to both sides in all battles, regardless of what gear they already have. I'm talking Aketons, Nasal Helmets, Hunting Corssbows, Nomad Bows and Simple Swords here.
Result: No naked battles ever and the gap between the best and worst equipped armies is narrowed.
Result:
It doesnt really matter if i attack someone who as an aketon or some peasand cloths while i wear my lordy corrazina armor.
I think a better solution would be to make random traders useful for clans so they dont attack them on sight.
My suggestion:
Add "S&D free" goods to each fief. Lets say every randomer can buy/sell 200 goods from a fief without using the S&D. So to make money you need to buy in many different fiefs and go trading with it. Clans get profit from the tax without loosing S&D, which actually encourages them to get more randomers using their free goods.
How to Prevent Clans using this?: You can only buy this free goods once every week, this prevents massive abuse and also forces the randomers to trade across the whole map.
Also, since there may be some extremely busybees that buy goods in loads of fiefs and therefore become an attractive target just to get there goods:
Make it impossible to loot the last 200 goods (of each kind ofc), like its not possible to transfer the last 100 troops you have.
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@Tomas: can u put up a problem 5: S&D
it pretty much is an big clan buff, plus everyone has to protect it, wich pretty much makes everyone stress about it even more 24/7.
can't we just delete it and make goods start distance penalty a bit higher to prevent shortselling?
the bonus of this would also be that everyone can buy/sell it freely then without the owner getting mad, no more of that randomers getting killed for trying to trade/smugle, plus more to do for bandit/s factions :wink:
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is strat 4 getting reset or what?
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is strat 4 getting reset or what?
Why would it?
At last carebears are getting disbanded and strat gets to be very enjoyable
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So the consensus so far seems to be that 1 and 3 are ok but 4 doesn't go far enough to help small clans on its own due to the S&D system. Meanwhile people are divided on 3 but possibly that's because that's a one off event each strat. Interesting to know :D
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with the load of fiefs available small clans should be able to trade till they drop...
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with the load of fiefs available small clans should be able to trade till they drop...
They should which is why i left out S&D initially. There's loads of it around but perhaps the issue is one of the vast resources built up already by larger clans/alliances rather than the S&D system itself. Equipment Upkeep could be the answer to that
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That, or make it attractive for clans to open their borders (tax is not enough)
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with the load of fiefs available small clans should be able to trade till they drop...
Most clans have closed borders and attack people entering on sight. Atleast that is how it is in NA. EU is a little different because clans have been quitting (RE: DRZ leaving 100k+ S&D in their fiefs)
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Most clans have closed borders and attack people entering on sight. Atleast that is how it is in NA. EU is a little different because clans have been quitting (RE: DRZ leaving 100k+ S&D in their fiefs)
???? We have 5 fiefs open to traders at this point (Curaw, Reyvadin, Knudarr castle, Tilbaut castle, and Tahlberl) (jelbegi castle may be open soon), we border a free trade fief (Tadsamesh) and are close to 2 free trade fiefs (Uslum and Shulus). And that is just the northern part of the map. part of the reason we want to take away some of hosp fiefs - 26K unused S&D we took and they never allowed free trade over a huge area of land. i think there are some free trade fiefs in South other than reindi castle. Plenty of places for free traders.
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They should which is why i left out S&D initially. There's loads of it around but perhaps the issue is one of the vast resources built up already by larger clans/alliances rather than the S&D system itself. Equipment Upkeep could be the answer to that
That, or make it attractive for clans to open their borders (tax is not enough)
in theory s&d is a good idea, but in practice it just leads to hugging it up in order to gain the most profit.
clans dont have the luxury to let others waste their s&d, i dont think making more and more additions to this will help making strat more fun at all, its rather the contrary.
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#1, 3, 4
agreed
#2
cRPG Clans = Strategus Factions (http://forum.meleegaming.com/closed-beta-testing/crpg-ladder-strategus-factions-relogin-after-inactivity/msg665990/#msg665990), people should only be able to vote for their own members. If the fies which could be voted for are randomised by spawn location and faction members who would spawn there too by chance, tehn there should be something introduced also to trasnfer fiefs to none faction members without the need of them joining own faction(cooldown!)
Problem 4: IMO this is a problem with S&D. Individuals and small clans can't keep up with large clans in regards to money and as such are always out geared.
Secondary S&D pool for none faction/clan members. Free Traders would also gain PP by reaching certain limits of trade. These PP could be used to increase Prosperity or Looms anywhere on the MAP. There wont be one Faction who wouldn't want to ahve them in their fiefs anymore and it would be needed for a very carefull tax policies so Free Traders wouldn't switch their favourit routs.
#5 Black Smith (http://forum.meleegaming.com/strategus-issues/blacksmith-servives/msg660696/#msg660696)
Problem: After every battle you have from one type of gear up to 8 different loom states. Not only does this make icons unbelievable small, but also when you run out of small stacks you always need to switch to the next stack etc. and not to forget about not being able to use some stuff at all because of the ongoing problem that when you have too much gear in one row you wouldn't be able to even choose it.
Solution: Those places where you can buy loomed gear also would offer a Black Smith Service which would allow you to upgrade the damaged gear upto the loom level available at that place. You then would need to pay a fee % of the original price depending on how many loom level you would like to upgrade it and on discount.
So what you would see afterwards, is that gear will be transported back to repair it and get it battle ready again and not just sell or waist it. Armies will more often just have a clean pool of equipment easily accessible, and to hell with that mess you have to sort through all these things to see if you haven't missed a position and wut not enough shields ...
#6 more options to spent Strategus tickets (http://forum.meleegaming.com/suggestions-corner/(strategus)-strategus-tickets/msg636327/#msg636327), like already mentioned repair walls
#7 passive bonus through Renown depending on playstyle(merc,conquerere,trader,...)
#8 more information in faction tab, location if in fief, speed if outside fief, this information for rank 7+
#9 NIGTHTIME to 14h (http://forum.meleegaming.com/game-balance-discussion/how-long-should-the-maximum-nighttime-last/msg625036/#msg625036)
#10 upheaval, unrest, revolutions for major Land Hungry Factions
EDIT:
in theory s&d is a good idea, but in practice it just leads to hugging it up in order to gain the most profit.
clans dont have the luxury to let others waste their s&d, i dont think making more and more additions to this will help making strat more fun at all, its rather the contrary.
S&D is great, i wouldn't want to have that removed, it drive the basic greed in us, grab or protect what you can. Even the S&D terrorism as strategic option is quite nice. To counter big factions, there needs to be implemetned soemthing that you can count them and therefor reduce their production power accordingly plus identify if they are in alliances and even reduce more their production capabilities.
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Problem 1: Too much of an advantage for defenders after winning a siege.
Solution 1: Destroyed walls should stay destroyed for a minimum of 24 hours after a battle and after that they should have to be repaired using PP.
Result: If you re-attack a Fief within 24 hours you don't have to redestroy the walls. After that you may or may not have to depending on whether or not any PP have been saved up for repairs.
Walls isn't the main problem. The thing is that if you have 2000-2500 equipped troops in def, you will win almost all the time & will get a lot of loot. IMHO Battle multiplier is one of the best options to fix this.
About small battles & rosters:
MORE XP! If I'll get equivalent of X5 playing 100vs100 battle, I would sing for every possible fight :)
Some other problems which need to be fixed till Strat 5:
Raid system
Night time
Removing advantage of multiacc & accsharing
Repairing of broken stuff
& other minor fixes.
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About small battles & rosters:
MORE XP! If I'll get equivalent of X5 playing 100vs100 battle, I would sing for every possible fight :)
This. Would help greatly in filling the roster for all those low ticket battles. I know I would attend more battles, because I play strat for XP only (and I'm probably not the only one).