60 sec spawn delay and abuse.

[Casimir]

That's not true...the defenders "respawn" 60 seconds after the first one of them spawned.  they all  respawn back on their flag (and before this, they can't capture the attacker's spawn).  The attackers start spawning at this point, 1 per second I believe.  By the time the defenders can get to the attackers spawn, the attackers should already be forming a defense.  They could have siege shields up, they could have pikemen, or shield walls.  The spawn system needs to be fixed for open field battles, but the attacker's can't claim they have no ability to defend themselves, that's simply not true, and is facetious.  Take accountability for yourself and stop acting ignorant.

When ATS attacked DFC the other night we were fully confident had they fielded an army with equipment that we would have been able to repel the initial defender rush to our spawn. 

DFC had a chance to defend themselves when ATS was the defenders and pushed the DFC spawn point, they just failed to do so.  Pecores clearly had a chance to defend themselves vs LLJK when LLJK pushed the Pecores spawn point, but they failed to do so.  I'm not saying it's easy to defend your spawn point when you're the attackers on an open field battle, but it certainly can be done.

They are respawned back only if they are within a  certain distance, if you aren't a complete idiot, take some heavy cav and charge as soon as the first attacker spawns you can almost guarantee victory for defenders.

Obviously some maps its harder than others but its a pretty simple formula that means defenders have the ability to win almost every time.

The ATS attacking DFC was exactly as described, attackers formed up in an organised group and pushed to defenders spawn before a majority of them had spawned, this has happened with many clans now and is not a debatable fact.

[_JoG_]

The ATS attacking DFC was exactly as described, attackers formed up in an organised group and pushed to defenders spawn before a majority of them had spawned, this has happened with many clans now and is not a debatable fact.

Have you ever seen the video of this battle? Neither ATS charged into them before most of them spawned, nor they raped the spawning attackers with heavy cav. The cavalry attack and infantry charge were performed at once which gave the "attackers" more time to spawn and organize themselves.


Of course, the "delayed spawn" issue needs to be addressed. I've mentioned the possibility of the spawn rape tactics on the very first page of the cRPG v.0.233 discussion and it came true despite the (not functioning) "safety mechanism".
The issue with the delayed spawn is that, even if their initial charge fails (and I can think of at least two attacker tactics to repel the initial defender charge), the defenders are able to move the center of the fighting very close to the attacker spawn in the very beginning of the battle which gives them an immense advantage.

[CrazyCracka420]

It's strange that it is to the attacker to defend, no?

Yes, it certainly is   I think the intention was to let the defenders get time to setup their defense.  But sometimes the best defense is a good offense (to keep them away from their goal aka the spawn point).  I think the system needs to be revised, but the attackers still have the ability to fend off the defenders before they can counter-attack.

They are respawned back only if they are within a  certain distance, if you aren't a complete idiot, take some heavy cav and charge as soon as the first attacker spawns you can almost guarantee victory for defenders.

As far as I know, it's automatic that the defenders all respawn on their spawn point.  The defenders can't capture the attacker's spawn point until that happens (and at that time, when the attackers start spawning).  I know this is for sure the case.  Gumdrawp from DFC raced across the map to our spawn point before we (the attackers) started spawning, and he was not able to capture our spawn point.  It them respawned him to his spawn point and we (The attackers) started spawning 1 by 1.

Obviously some maps its harder than others but its a pretty simple formula that means defenders have the ability to win almost every time.

Even on the tiny map that DFC attacked ATS on, the DFC "attackers" (who had to defend a spawn rush) had all spawned in by the time the infantry of ATS had pushed up to within 100 yards.  I was a cavalry scout for ATS and was watching the whole thing unfold from a distance.  This is also verified by a video that someone in infantry took for ATS.  After the respawn for the defenders (at 60 seconds) they formed up and started slowly moving across the map.  It took another full minute before our infantry to cross the field of battle and get to the point of being about 20 seconds out from the attacker's spawn.  At this point and time the DFC attackers (who were defending their spawn point) had all spawned, and had a mass of infantry balled up around their spawn point.  They also had 5 war horses (or some other armored horsemen) and 2 saddle horses circling their infantry (kind of like dolphins schooling bait fish into a tight group).

Right before the infantry of ATS hit the DFC mass our cavalry hit from both directions.  Then infantry hit, then cavalry circled back for another run at the stragglers.  The attackers who were defending their spawn clearly had enough people to organize a defense, they just failed to do so.  Same with Pecores defending vs an LLJK spawn rush, Pecores had a lot of people spawned in, and could have defended their spawn point, they just failed to do so.

The ATS attacking DFC was exactly as described, attackers formed up in an organised group and pushed to defenders spawn before a majority of them had spawned, this has happened with many clans now and is not a debatable fact.

You're wrong, I witnessed this first hand, and saw a video for another instance.  And these both happened on tiny battle maps.  The spawn system should be re-worked and tweaked, but the attackers (who have to defend their spawn point initially) can defend their spawn.  It's not the system that is screwing them over, it's bad leadership and in game tactics.  Yes, the system could be better, but it's certainly not as glitched as everyone is bitching about.

[Tanreall]

Why hasn't ATS or the NE attacked anyone since this happened? I saw Goretooth fuck off to the north after the dfc fight when he could have come down and attacked LLJK. Guess these tactics of defending the spawn point will never be seen because the only people who are any good at this game won't attack anyone.

[CrazyCracka420]

Why hasn't ATS or the NE attacked anyone since this happened? I saw Goretooth fuck off to the north after the dfc fight when he could have come down and attacked LLJK. Guess these tactics of defending the spawn point will never be seen because the only people who are any good at this game won't attack anyone.

I'm not part of the diplomacy for NE but common sense would tell me that we should secure our own territory before we go nation building half way across the map. 

[Lockt]

CrazyCracka, you are like a dog with a bone.  Only the dog is retarded... also the bone is retarded.  I don't know how you can still claim that this mechanic isn't broken.  You're all alone on your side, too stupid or stubborn (both) to admit defeat.  It's not broken because the attackers still have the opportunity to defend?  What everyone else seems to get, and you don't, is that something doesn't have to go 100% one way to be broken.  Yes attackers could win decked out in plate going against level 20's in padded armor, but it doesn't have to get to the point where they can't for most sane people to call it broken.

At this point you're arguing the semantics of "Broken," and the chance of attacker success which you know little about having participated in one battle.

[PhantomZero]

I'm not part of the diplomacy for NE but common sense would tell me that we should secure our own territory before we go nation building half way across the map.

Then why did you come down here in the first place?

[Diomedes]

Some fairly inarguable issues with the current spawn system [which people shouldn't bring up anymore]:

- Attackers have too little time to prepare a fair defense, let alone an aggressive attack
- Attackers must first defend on top of their spawn - exactly what every army tries desperately to avoid
- in the brief period when the Attackers are initially organizing themselves cavalry are able to harass and disorganize them because of smaller map sizes

This could be fixed in a variety of ways.  Many good ones have already been put forward and which the dev team seem to be considering.  I don't know what else there is to say on this topic.

[Keshian]

Still don't even understand why this feature was even added.  Why are all attackers now defenders?

[Nessaj]

Still don't even understand why this feature was even added.  Why are all attackers now defenders?

A logical guess would be that the change was made to allow Defenders to set up a DEFENSE.
Unfortunately a lot of maps have their spawns way too close to each other.

There's several solutions to the issue:

Try a faster spawning rate (30 seconds etc)
Multiple attacker spawns
Relocating attacker spawn further away


A lot of the maps aren't quite big though which ultimately hinders a fix that would still allow for a 60 second spawn delay, no matter where the attackers would spawn they don't have enough time to setup a defense versus rushing Cavalry. Multiple spawns for attackers should fix that issue though, but it has just as much to do with the terrain of the map as well.

[CrazyCracka420]

CrazyCracka, you are like a dog with a bone.  Only the dog is retarded... also the bone is retarded.  I don't know how you can still claim that this mechanic isn't broken.  You're all alone on your side, too stupid or stubborn (both) to admit defeat.  It's not broken because the attackers still have the opportunity to defend?  What everyone else seems to get, and you don't, is that something doesn't have to go 100% one way to be broken.  Yes attackers could win decked out in plate going against level 20's in padded armor, but it doesn't have to get to the point where they can't for most sane people to call it broken.

At this point you're arguing the semantics of "Broken," and the chance of attacker success which you know little about having participated in one battle.

I do claim the mechanic needs to be fixed, I'm also arguing in the current system the attackers should still be able to successfully defend their spawn if they are organized and have the right equipment.  Yes they are disadvantaged, but not out of the fight.  I don't like to see anyone claim they were completely absolved of any responsibility for their spawns being overrun by the "defenders".  Yes, the system needs to be fixed, but that doesn't give the attackers a blank check excuse for not defending their spawn.

You, my friend, are the retard who doesn't comprehend what he reads.  I've been making two separate points.  I can hold both positions and not be contradicting myself.  If you fail to see that, then there's nothing I can do to change your limited concept of logic.

ideally the maps would be larger, and/or the attackers would all spawn at the same time.  i still don't understand why initially either the attackers or defenders would spawn one at a time...that being said, if they kept the current system, make it so the defenders spawned first still, but only allow them to stay on their half of the map. Like an invisible wall for a certain period of time.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

The real problem is the one by one spawning.  If attackers all spawned like before (all at once) the first wave, it would be fine.

[Tears of Destiny]

Maybe make it where everyone has 60 seconds before the battle starts, and will be teleported back if they wander too far from spawn...

This would allow defenders to actually spawn all the way and form formations, and defenders to take critical positions and prepare defenses.

[Kafein]

Just my 2 cents :

If things don't change, there aren't going to be many Strategus battles in the future.

[MaHuD]

Am I wrong or are we still in Beta?

From what I read, YES its probably broken. But thats why the mod is still in beta, to test new shit ><