Messages

16

Suggestions Corner / Re: Long Voulge

« on: March 30, 2012, 01:25:32 pm »

I believe a reason for keeping it like it is with 2 swings is due to it's length, weapons that long are horrifying to fight against if they have side swings. Ever remember trying to fight the bamboo spear in native? Same idea, once weapons get over a certain length they just become silly, they can be easily abused without any form of skill. For example a player is commonly on the duel server with full plate, full strength and a scythe; he just jumps backwards and spams the scythe, it is not only frustrating to see him beat the top duelists on occasion with this style, it also looks terrible.

I would vote against giving this weapon 4 weapon swing directions, but instead perhaps give it the opportunity to occupy an economical halberd role (cut overhead strike and pierce stab). It seems to be in this role at the moment in stats, just maybe the stats don't make it worthy for this role so perhaps balance it.

17

Sell/Trade / Selling loompoint 650k

« on: March 30, 2012, 01:02:08 pm »

I am selling my heirloom point, I am ready to retire now, 650,000 gold in price.

Stats:
Strength   15   
Shield   5

So really can only heirloom things with strength requirements and some low shields.

Prompt response would be nice (I want to retire today), please post in this thread if you are interested.

18

Buy / Re: buying loom point

« on: March 30, 2012, 12:10:12 pm »

I am level 31 with 15 strength and would like to retire today so prompt response is desirable (if at all possible).

Edit:Never mind someone else bought it.

19

General Discussion / Re: Please speed the whole gaming speed up

« on: February 16, 2012, 10:34:00 pm »

I do think Phase has a point, combat is too slow nowadays, in comparison to native the combat speed is terrible. Although the native combat speed was too high since it allowed for spam and macro feinting to be too effective, an increase to the cRPG speed slightly would be a good idea.

It does seem however that the devs do not want to increase combat speed itself and so what I would like instead is an increase in damage across all weapon types. This would force people into playing carefully again and not just "I have more health so I will try to spam" as it currently is. To be honest I don't actually play cRPG for melee any more (it's so boring I just play native duel).

20

General Discussion / Re: Players you respect...

« on: February 16, 2012, 10:25:03 pm »

Phyrex&Phase - For both being gods at 2h, then sucking ass with any other class.

Phase's original native name was Khuyet, and he was actually one of the best archers in native (I believe he held a reasonable duel score against our ex-champion Harlequin). He is still epic in cRPG at archery, but he has "secret" alt names. Phyrex also has an archer and isn't too bad at it either.

21

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 08:36:40 pm »

Archers should not get scores as high as 2h/pole/cav, they are a support class, and hence are harder to top the boards with. It is the same with a shielder, they have a harder time scoring top on the boards because they are also support as well as a killing class.

Also you need to consider the 2h kill rates of an average 2h, which is very low since they will be picked off due to bad awareness. There are no average two handers topping the boards consistently, same as any other class other than cavalry but cavalry has other reasons to be easier to get kills.

Yes? They register the kill ratio of different people with different styles.
And most archers are usualy listed below the average melee guy, but I shouldn't have to tell you that if you play the game.


 No! I just want as much a chance of getting kills as anyone else.

Learn the role of your class, support + killing, compared to cav/2h/polearm just killing. If you are getting as many kills as a 2h of the same skill as you then your class is not balanced, since you are getting as many kills and assisting others. The scoreboard is not entirely representative of how much you helped your team, ranged can pick off very important members of the enemy team whereas cavalry only kills indiscriminately.

As I said in the other thread from my point of view (2h, 8 athletics) the change was just a huge ranged nerf hidden behind an attempt to "add more skill" (which doesn't effect my point of view). Before patch headshot was deadly in 95%, now it is deadly in 300% while headshots happen a bit more but not much due to high ath (difference=0). Every other hits though are drastically weaker.

If a nerf was necessary in my eyes a tiny overall damage reduction would be better, especially because this would effect HA's and throwers not that much. HA's are really only to be pittied now, even before patch they did little harm. The fun/challenge in killing one has been drastically reduced.

I don't think the devs wanted to disguise anything, in my eyes this has made ranged more skilful. It did break crossbows admittedly and I do hope they will re-balance them but overall the change was a good idea. Maybe archery will need a buff to accuracy but I hope the change itself stays. Yes HA is broken and I really do wish they would change that but the HA is a class which is hard to balance since it relies heavily on attrition of arrows.

22

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 07:57:00 pm »

How so? There was a +1 accuracy increase on the longbow 

On top of that my bow seems much more accurate post patch. There was no patch notes on this but my crosshair definitely looks tighter.

23

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 07:15:02 pm »

Irrelevant. A noob, armoured melee guy has even more chances of killing, than a seasoned archer does, as the patches keep comming.

Irrelevant? You asked for someone to try archery and test and you say my opinion is irrelevant, that's called data omission. A "noob armoured melee guy" will not get consistent kills since he will get killed by cavalry, infantry or ranged. A "noob archer" will have little chance to kill consistently but will occasionally get an arrow in which will kill a target, this chance is probably less than that of the swordsman, but the archer will be of slightly more support to a team aswell.

If they compensated somehow with more accuracy and more arrows then you could talk about adapting, but a nerf is a nerf, people dont adapt, they suffer from it.

They did compensate for accuracy from what I can see.

This is just hilarious. There's few melee players whining about archery and defending nerf with all possible ways and explanations.

So... archers need to adapt to it? Can I ask...

What you did before patch?

No, you didn't adapt. Still you didn't learn to dodge, you didn't buy shield, you didn't move behind shielder. You were whining here at forums about how archery is all mighty and powerful. And it was all good before nerf for those who knew how to deal with them.

Now it's just couple archers doing well, and rest have to adapt?

So... let's nerf melee and buff archery. Chase and companions are doing well anyway, so rest need to deal with it? Fair? No. Stupid? Yes.

Most likely whining will start soon again, as melee idiots really haven't learned anything. Archers are going to adapt in idiotic game system and sure they will do better soon again and that's when you start whining again. But is this new "only headshots count for good damage" really that well planned?

Sure, heavy armour should be able to take punishing and quite much ignore arrows that arent made for penetrating them, but they should also move much slower to compensate that. But when I move around in my pilgrim robe and can take few arrows to my chest while laughing at archers, something isn't right. Sure you wannabe heroes are happy with that, it's better score for you (free kills anyway till they learn to headshot only and most don't with latency issues etc.) but some of us here actually want to have balanced and _fun_ gameplay. And... now if you want to make headshot, you NEED quite high WPF yes? So what about hybrids?

The problem is that nerfing melee damage and speed has already been done to the point it's horrible. The only other change would be to health and athletics, health I would support and athletics would nerf archery too.

24

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 06:39:04 pm »

When did I say anything about massive damage? Even getting a bodyshot on any body at long range is incredibly difficult with the current accuracy.

I think he meant that you should have a low chance of actually dealing any damage. Getting a bodyshot at long range should be hard since if I kill an archer he will generally rage and focus me from across the map. This change just forces you into a range where you are reachable, like Dezi said Risk vs Reward, the same applies to every other class in the game, now it applies to ranged too.

25

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 06:33:05 pm »

If you don't have the balls to stay near your target then you shouldn't do massive damage.

Exactly, ranged shouldn't be about running around and firing at that last guy until you have ran out of arrows. For example if a shielder reaches me I don't run away I take the risk to sidestep his shield and sometimes hit, if I fail I manual block until I can get some range again through use of my team mates, if it hits I am free to try again or get back to my team.

26

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 06:21:48 pm »

That's because it benefits him enourmously on the play style I just described. And anything below 10m or so is shotgunning.

Then by this definition it's not skill-less, since once a target gets below this range you start to worry and the target will dodge at this range much more. So actually headshotting a target at this range is actually quite hard. This change does not benefit his playstyle solely either since Jambi is possibly the best archer in cRPG, he can easily play any playstyle and does the mixing of the archer A & B style as I mentioned earlier. If it's so easy to play like this then why is Jambi and a few other archers the only ones using it? Like Tzar said, adapt to the change, I would not see it as a nerf since it stops me from being spammed in the body by truly skill-less archers who are firing at me from across the map or just firing randomly into a group or location. 

That's because it benefits him enourmously because he doesn't suck at archery.

Nice edit there

And Overdriven I use a bow at range, I can't stab my twohander's great sword 20m away now can I? As I said I can reliably headshot at 20m and possibly more, so it's not melee range.

But what's the point behind that when damage is so gimped that only a handful of players can score a positive score? And we still have to put up with mindless trolls, both in game and in here, saying that archery is fine, just so that their particular classes dont have to suffer.

You are aware positive means >0? So I hope everyone gets a positive score, what you mean is a non-fractional score, which for archery is hard to get, but it is so for most other classes. The trolls can be annoying but every class gets it, how many times have I seen people call Phyrex a 2h spamming noob? I lost count, and that's aimed at one of the best two handers in Europe.

Do your own testing if you think Im exagerating about the kill counts, but dont come here feeding crap to people who have first hand experience.

I did my own, I play archery on my alt. I have no looms and hence I have a huge disadvantage since looms have more importance for a ranged char, still I get good scores as an archer, if I am in the right mind-set I can outscore Jambi sometimes. Archery is fine and that's from my testing.

27

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 06:01:50 pm »

When I watched him he had plenty of chances at medium ranged shots. But he just waited until people came close and headshotted them.

It's pointless because the accuracy is so damn bad. Because of the missle speed shooting at range would still be highly skillfull even if the accuracy was increased because it still requires perfect judgement to get the trajectories right. More skillfull than shooting close. But right now it is ruled by random chance if you just point in the general direction that you should.

The accuracy is not so bad, it's actually not too far from the heavy bows in native now if you have 18/21 or 15/24. It's not random chance if you do it consistently, random chance means unpredictable randomness.

//Sorry for the double post

PS: On headshot pre-patch it was 1.75*1.2*effective damage my mistake I misread the if statement. Also I guess they didn't change the damage equation here but in an earlier stage in damage calculation, so it means that you could actually have a higher effective damage than an extra 100% because more damage gets through the armour.

On a side note: Jambi is actually enjoying the ranged changes, so it's quite clear more than 1 of us thinks this is actually a good move who actually play archery.

28

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 05:59:24 pm »

Jeez tzar you just keep on going with retarded nonsense don't you.

Because the whole point is to increase skill. If skill is shotgunning people in the head at point blank range, then that's a bloody weird concept. Hitting anyone in the head at even medium range is pretty much pure luck.

That is what Tzar does to be honest. You are aware "shot-gunning" with a bow is not possible since you get bumped at the bow range. You don't need to be point blank for a headshot either since that's what you meant, I can pull off headshots reliably at reasonable distances, get your target at about 20m without him focusing on you and if you are good enough enjoy your free kill. This patch is to separate the good from the bad, and it seems to have done that since bad archers are at the bottom of the boards and good archers are at the top.

29

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 05:51:15 pm »

It went from a 75% increase to a 100% increase. Not a big buff to anything worth using.

What accuracy buff are you talking about?

I may have been a bit misleading when I said 175%, the number gets multiplied by 1.75 rather than an increase by 175%. And even with just 100% extra that's your damage (after armour) multiplied by 2, which is significant enough to warrant headshot kills at medium range. I can reliably pull off headshots at 10-20m which is the range I comfortably operate at anyway since I usually stay close to a good melee player so I can support them but get aid from them if I need it.  Even with body shots you stagger people, which is the main role of the archer anyway, to wound and make opening for melee.

The accuracy buff I am talking about is the accuracy buff we got this patch. The bows seem to be more accurate now than they were pre-patch.

I don't think you've been paying attention to the discussion.  You can't accurately aim for the head unless you're really close.  This is what you're probably seeing:

- Archer A aims normally, hits with 50% of their arrows in medium range, 90% of the successful hits hit the body.  Damage is dealt, but few kills.

- Archer B aims high, hits with 20% of the arrows in medium range, but over half of those hit the head and give a kill.  Total damage dealt from this archer might actually be lower than the other guys, but you (seeing the headshots and the kills) think "WOAH THIS ARCHER IS PRO!".

Archer A still does a lot of damage and gets a lot of kills, I aim for the head mostly but sometimes go for this style and gets me a few kills. This style caters more towards the stagger and run technique. This style supports melee a lot more due to the staggers.

Archer B gains their headshots and kills quite easily, but due to a lower hit rate staggers less hence aiding the team less. They also will likely miss when someone dodges.

Both styles are viable, although if you want to be a good archer you will choose to mix up the body shots with the headshots. I myself will body shot when someone is coming straight for me, since that will kill them before they reach me. However when I am aiding infantry and I see someone running in a predictable path I will go for the headshot.

Yeah I was spectating Jambi and noticed that's how he gets a lot of his kills. Most of them are point blank head shots. Hardly ever fires at even a medium range target unless they are completely stationary. So much for that Jambi score proving anything 

If you have to fire at point blank range to sucessfully hit...there is something very wrong.

This is not true at all, Jambi has been tweaking his aim for headshots only for around a month. He seems to be able to aim at medium range and get a reasonable amount of headshots, you just need to know when to shoot for the head and when for the body. Jambi will get most of his kills in close range because he is focused by most people, and hence will not get much chance at the medium range shots. Archery should not be conducted at large ranges either, I have always played archery in close-medium range, any further and it's pointless. I do see people trying to spam arrows across the map which should not be viable since it takes no skill.

So bows are the medieval shotguns? I never knew...

Volley fire in pubby would be completely useless. That's a pretty daft idea Kafein.

In real life bows can be quite good snipers, but this game is about balance and not about "Oh look I fired my bow and the arrow magnetised to that guys face".

30

General Discussion / Re: New ranged change

« on: January 22, 2012, 03:12:52 pm »

The longbow has different appeals to it, it's bad for ranged duels, but I am told it is hardcoded that the longbow draw may be held for longer and hence is better against infantry. So I don't really see a problem with the longbow with these changes, I picked up a longbow yesterday and did as good as with my Rus bow, it seems still to be very effective. It certainly destroys high PD builds, which is probably for the best, that's what a crossbow is for.

For crossbows I think this nerf was very bad since they don't really have the same chance for the headshot as others. So maybe it would be a good idea to increase the damage on the arbalest so that it is still the beast to be scared of as is was pre patch. I do not play crossbow very often (I only have a level 25 alt), so I do not know what needs changing to balance them. However it is quite obvious that crossbows got nerfed to an almost unusable level, in some cases it fixes people bringing a crossbow for a sidearm which is good, but it also screws up the pure crossbow users.