cRPG
cRPG => General Discussion => Topic started by: Konrax on January 17, 2011, 07:16:28 pm
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So I just finished playing a siege where I was on the losing team every round thanks to auto balance.
I believe the whole point of this patch was that "skilled" players would make more gold and then therefore be able to afford nicer gear.
Before you rant about me having no skill I was 66-19 and switched almost every round back and forth. That's 27 kills more and less deaths then the second highest person on the server.
Can I please get my 2x multiplier? It's not like I am not holding up my end of the battlefield.
/Rant
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u mad? This patch works against individual skill.
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Please read line 2 then reply.
GGKTHXGTFO
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u mad? This patch works against individual skill.
But, he's right....
If you are 60:20 but everyone else on your team is 10:50 You will never be a winning team...
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I can't defend the whole castle myself. This auto switch business is stupid, it doesn't even give players a round or two to just try a different tactic.
Not sure what to say but the auto balance always tries to put me on the losing team.
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I believe the whole point of this patch was that "skilled" players would make more gold and then therefore be able to afford nicer gear.
i believe the whole point of this patch was that "Teamwork" players would make more gold .....
i believe the whole point of this patch was to avoid "Tin can" players
i believe the whole point of this patch wasto avoid "plated charger" players
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66-19 is actually 47 more kills then deaths.
Also the patch wanted more "team" based rewards. from what i have found what everyone needs to do is find an armor setup that has the best balance of cost/survivability which will allow you to showcase your skills in the best way possible, while also helping your team to win rounds.
This becomes difficult with the banner balancing, but going 66-19 on siege and losing is going to be more an issue with you not leading your team and instead just farming kills. When i play siege ill go pretty even on k-d but at the same time, ill be in team chat giving out orders and trying to get people in the best position to win the game. Often times when attacking ill see people going up siege towers or trying to flank when the door is wide open for us to push through, often times they go the where they see easy kills.
When defending you will have people with full plate standing over a ladder with a bar mace killing noobs when the rest of the enemy team is pushing the flag that everyone else is trying to defend.
so TL:DR on siege k-d doesnt matter, being in the right position to help your team is what matters.
In battle its all about finding the other teams best players and killing them before they start rolling, does the other team have goretooth? your best player better be making a b-line right for him to stop him early.
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I give orders to my team, like regroup at flag, close the gate, ect ect.
I wear 2k armour and 1k boots/gloves/helm.
I use a 1h broad battle axe and huscarl shield and THATS IT.
So I am not a tin can bar mace spamming ladder &$^#@ but instead trying my best always to support my team where I am needed most.
My complaint is that I would make more gold running around naked not trying to kill anything at all then if I were to actually play this game.
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I give orders to my team, like regroup at flag, close the gate, ect ect.
I wear 2k armour and 1k boots/gloves/helm.
I use a 1h broad battle axe and huscarl shield and THATS IT.
So I am not a tin can bar mace spamming ladder &$^#@ but instead trying my best always to support my team where I am needed most.
My complaint is that I would make more gold running around naked not trying to kill anything at all then if I were to actually play this game.
wear under 25k equipement and you ll make gold even at x1 ... so the main point of the thread ? showing your score or a real complaint ?
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But.. What would you do with the gold then? Where would be the fun be in doing nothing?
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To be honest, your best bet is to join a clan. o.o
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Good players don't need a reward. They beat bad players even with shit-gear. Keep a gear that's somewhat affordable with x1, and there you go: you don't care about the multiplier.
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the only problem i see for ppl with much higher k/d than every1 else is that you get teamswitched couse of "balance" EVERY round, and then its really hard to get high multiplier couse its not as if victory follows your k/d, specially not on the more populated servers
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Exactly what he said ^^
My gear setup is enough for me to make gold on a 1x multiplier still but I want to GET SOME DAWGON XP TO RETIRE ALREADY.
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While i agree that upkeep is a bit too expensive, you should keep in mind that the goal of a siege is to conquer or hold the castle, not to whore as many kills as possible. If you're really good you should easily get x5 on siege.
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So when I am standing at the flag defending it and 14 enemies break through my team and run at me I have to kill them all by myself?
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Ya really, im good but these days its harder to one man army the round, especially since people know me and go spear/pike spam on me :(
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Don't play Siege, play Battle, if you think your KDR should represent your multiplier.
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I am usually one of the top players on battle servers as well.
I just enjoy the siege servers so I play on them.
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Doesn't sound like joy to me.
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So when I am standing at the flag defending it and 14 enemies break through my team and run at me I have to kill them all by myself?
if you are so good you should be at the front line of the defense taking pressure off your team, instead of hanging back hoping for some easy clean up.
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Here's the thing: the age of the one-man army is over. With the arrival of banner balance and multipliers based on win/loss, teamwork is supreme. No matter how great you are, you're not going to guarantee wins if your team doesn't organize themselves or let you organize them. Which is why I go back to my initial reply: join a clan. You'll find that with an organized group on voice chat, you can generally guarantee more wins and a constant high multiplier.
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if you are so good you should be at the front line of the defense taking pressure off your team, instead of hanging back hoping for some easy clean up.
Wow really?
I am at the front keeping the pressure off until 2 or 3 get past my and the rest of my team fails to kill them. Then I fall back to the flag, kill those people that got past, turn around and see the rest of the other team coming for the flag.
Honestly do you have something real to contribute to my post?
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something like 5 gold for killing someone around the same level as you would be awesome
when they're 10 levels lower you dont get anything, 9-8 level lower you get 1 golds, 7-6 level lower you get 2 golds, etc
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I don't think how many people you kill necessarily means your going to win or do well. However the auto balance seems to greatly consider the k/d ratio when determining teams.
I personally would like to see a scalable xp/gold system based more on character level and maybe k/d ratio COMBINED with a winning team multiplier.
Instead of everyone getting the same thing. Not sure how possible a system like that would be though.
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I gotta fully agree with him ...
You have that peasant doing nothing except dying in the winning team and gets x5 while on the other side, you have a few good players trying to make their team win and they are stuck with a x1 with no bonus per kill. Multiplier should go up with your killing spree + winning a round (basic multiplier + killing spree). That way if you keep losing but have a descend kill ratio , for a minute or so in the round you might have went up to x3 or x4 which is better than staying at 1. So the guy in your team doing nothing but hiding in a stupid hut or in spawn won't level as fast as you do because you're doing a good job , which makes things fair imo.
Why not leveling a character to 31 while staying naked the whole time ? You don't have to fight, you get a very bad K:D ratio so you're switched to the winning team and get more often a x3+ multiplier, you don't have any upkeep so you farm gold like crazy, and you actually can reach lvl 31 before someone who's playing a lot, tries his best to be useful and have a descent K:D ratio.
Bring back the old system where campers weren't getting anything for camping and people killing were getting what they deserved ...
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something like 5 gold for killing someone around the same level as you would be awesome
when they're 10 levels lower you dont get anything, 9-8 level lower you get 1 golds, 7-6 level lower you get 2 golds, etc
I already talked with chadz about it and he wasn't for it at all, saying it was like that before and he doesn't wanna go back to that reward system (which in imo was the most fair system possible)
If you're lvl 10 and kill a lvl 30 , you should get more XP than right now, where a peasant camp spawn with his x5 and you,re fighting to make your team win and even with kills you still make less than him...
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Q_Q some more about gold/xp gains. So many butthurt babies that can't face roll an entire team in the best gear. The playing field is a bit more even now.
Your reward for killing people is seeing your name higher up on the scoreboard.
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I already talked with chadz about it and he wasn't for it at all, saying it was like that before and he doesn't wanna go back to that reward system (which in imo was the most fair system possible)
If you're lvl 10 and kill a lvl 30 , you should get more XP than right now, where a peasant camp spawn with his x5 and you,re fighting to make your team win and even with kills you still make less than him...
Of course he'll have none of it, xp/gold gain + upkeep have made the game fun again, and allowed skill/teamplay to play a bigger role in the field vs. gear trumping everything.
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Q_Q some more about gold/xp gains. So many butthurt babies that can't face roll an entire team in the best gear. The playing field is a bit more even now.
Your reward for killing people is seeing your name higher up on the scoreboard.
Yeah because my 2k armour is equal to my plate that is collecting dust not being worn. (I use 1h / shield too!)
Honestly please read what has been posted before writing something, I am getting so tired of %&$^*%$ R#T@RD#D children like you.
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Q_Q some more about gold/xp gains. So many butthurt babies that can't face roll an entire team in the best gear. The playing field is a bit more even now.
Your reward for killing people is seeing your name higher up on the scoreboard.
except that its not. While i dont full agree with the OP, i will say that banner balance does the exact opposite of balancing teams. 9/10 times the clan that owns the server(and as such has the most members on) is going to be the team that wins 75% of the rounds.
so in short, join a clan. I did i have not had a chance to really play with my new team as of yet, but the anticipation of being with a tight knit group to work out team based strategies is exciting.
In regards to the OP reponse to my response, you need to be more of a leader, once people get past you guys to the flag everyone needs to fall back to the flag and begin to push out from there. Lead more, Cry less.
also my gear is tourny armor, sword and board. once my multiplier hits 3+ i switch to my heraldic plate.
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I don't think how many people you kill necessarily means your going to win or do well. [...]
Exactly. That's why players shouldn't be rewarded according to kills.
Besides, doing that will only push everyone to rush blindy on peasants, and then you'll bid farewell to any tactics.
The best way to reward good players IMO would be according to DAMAGE done, not kills. That way you'd gain something for assists, even if the team loses at the end.
Sadly, it appears to be a bit tricky with the actual game engine, so we'll have to endure several kludgy attempts at appropriate rewards, until something good is found.
Waiting for that, just concentrate on staying a good player, hone your skills, and assist the team, notwithstanding the general level. It will pay someday :)
PS : oh, and enjoy the game.
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Yeah because my 2k armour is equal to my plate that is collecting dust not being worn. (I use 1h / shield too!)
Honestly please read what has been posted before writing something, I am getting so tired of %&$^*%$ R#T@RD#D children like you.
And I'm sick of retarded children like you crying on about shit without actually saying anything of worth or even having a half way valid argument. The game mechanics have changed move on or find another game. I think a large chunk of the population actually enjoys these changes.
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except that its not. While i dont full agree with the OP, i will say that banner balance does the exact opposite of balancing teams. 9/10 times the clan that owns the server(and as such has the most members on) is going to be the team that wins 75% of the rounds.
Banner balance is another topic entirely and not within the context of this thread :). There are other servers out there where balance is a bit more fair when ATS decide to team stack against the general consensus from online gamers everywhere that it's a gay thing to do ;)
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And I'm sick of retarded children like you crying on about shit without actually saying anything of worth or even having a half way valid argument. The game mechanics have changed move on or find another game. I think a large chunk of the population actually enjoys these changes.
Broken game mechanic, chadz please fix it. (Or not appropriate reward system)
Not up to me to say what it should be.
Now go join Lady GAGA in the hall of shame.
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Here's the deal, chadz made these changes for a reason. Again learn to live with it or move, or come back with a valid argument as to why the old way was better.
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I never said the old way was better.
I believe that chadz originally said that the way the upkeep system worked was that players who are skilled and exceptional would be able to afford higher end gear compared to the general public. My experience has been that due to the auto balance system this is not the case at all and that despite me being the highest k/d player on the server AND working with my team to try and win I find that more often than not I am on the losing team and NOT due to a lack of my own skills.
Now I could have just equipped my plate armour and stayed alive 5x longer and killed the whole other team and won the round but being at a 1x multiplier I would just be wasting my gold.
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I'll agree, the autobalancer can be a cruel mistress at times. It does even out in the long run. Some days it seems like I'll always be on the losing team, other times I'll be @ x5 across several maps. My whole point is that having a reward based on your kills would be silly and would undo the reason for the upkeep/xp/gold changes in the first place.
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Exactly. That's why players shouldn't be rewarded according to kills.
Besides, doing that will only push everyone to rush blindy on peasants, and then you'll bid farewell to any tactics.
People already rush for the peasant as there's no point dying trying to pick on a good player. They only care about the K:D ratio now and peasants are more hunted than ever ... it sucks for the new guy who's aimed first because he's new and doesn,t have any gear. If it would be a better reward to pick on higher levels, fights would be more interesting than the guy who stops fighting another good player because he saw an easy peasant around and it's just a free kill, instead of risking to die against that good player... that's how I see it.
And yeah , banner balance makes clan finally be able to play together, which makes better fights, even though when you're NA it's mostly everyone vs ATS or BRD. But that's an other topic...
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What about giving some gold on the basis of the level of the players you kill? Level 30: 30 gold. Level 5: 5 gold. If there's room for more complexity there could be gold based on deceased player levels which is proportionately distributed based on who did what amount of damage. Seems fair to me but perhaps it's too complex.
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I would like to see some kind of system that rewards player skill, instead of only team skill. The problem with only rewarding team skill is that the player often doesn't have that much control over it, because of the autobalance. And because it's out of my hands I don't get the same sense of achievement that I used to get after a good round. And then there's the bitch slap that you sometimes get when after a good round, all your equipment breaks. It just feels like the game punishing me for doing well.
Anyway like I said, I'd like to see some more rewards for player skill. Honestly a couple of gold and a bit of xp would be fine. Make it be unaffected by the multiplier and make it so only equal level or higher lvl kills give the reward. There fixed the peasant hunting problem, not that hard..
What about giving some gold on the basis of the level of the players you kill? Level 30: 30 gold. Level 5: 5 gold. If there's room for more complexity there could be gold based on deceased player levels which is proportionately distributed based on who did what amount of damage. Seems fair to me but perhaps it's too complex.
This would be even beter, team did 10000 damage, you did 1000, so you get 10% of the reward (which is then based on the levels and gear of the enemy team or something).
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the thing isnt about money, the thing is that ppl that get dubble as much k/d as second most ALLWAYS get teamswitched, even switched from clanmates
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Equipment (x) times Level (y) divided by 10000
20k worth of gear, Level 30, means 60 gold on kill.
No exp gain. This encourages people to attack higher level and tank like characters rather than focus peasants to get k/d
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that would turn this into a headhunt, no care about win or loose
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that would turn this into a headhunt, no care about win or loose
Perhaps if the multiplier got involved? At x5 you would get the full 60, slowly declining with your multiplier?
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still, peasants would push and teamhit the important ppl in front line when trying to get a kill on the enemy armoured guy
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I had no problems playing siege and getting an above average multiplier allowing me to make some gold, just do the right stuff, if you defend delay the enemy team, keep the gate closed, defend the entrances, the backdoor and stop the siege tower if you can. If you attack kill everyone and get the flag. And i'm nowhere near the OP's stats.
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I would like to see some kind of system that rewards player skill, instead of only team skill. The problem with only rewarding team skill is that the player often doesn't have that much control over it, because of the autobalance. And because it's out of my hands I don't get the same sense of achievement that I used to get after a good round. And then there's the bitch slap that you sometimes get when after a good round, all your equipment breaks. It just feels like the game punishing me for doing well.
Anyway like I said, I'd like to see some more rewards for player skill. Honestly a couple of gold and a bit of xp would be fine. Make it be unaffected by the multiplier and make it so only equal level or higher lvl kills give the reward. There fixed the peasant hunting problem, not that hard..
This would be even beter, team did 10000 damage, you did 1000, so you get 10% of the reward (which is then based on the levels and gear of the enemy team or something).
I can do the most damage and kills if I only attack enemies when I have superiority (either through level, class, skill, backstab or outnumbering) and run when I haven't, which is kind of a skill, too, but then I rely on supportive players to tie down the enemy against larger numbers, spend the round watching out for cav or archers, or peasant creating just enough diversion for me and those should be rewarded the same.
Simply put, a skilled player will get more gold than an unskilled in the same gamestyle with this rewardsystems ... but you can cherrypick your gamestyle and let others do the unrewarding jobs that still need to be done, so imo a system that rewards everyone equally is way better. Besides, giving lower skill players worse equipment just enlarges the gap even more.
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People already rush for the peasant as there's no point dying trying to pick on a good player. They only care about the K:D ratio now and peasants are more hunted than ever ... it sucks for the new guy who's aimed first because he's new and doesn,t have any gear. If it would be a better reward to pick on higher levels, fights would be more interesting than the guy who stops fighting another good player because he saw an easy peasant around and it's just a free kill, instead of risking to die against that good player... that's how I see it.
And yeah , banner balance makes clan finally be able to play together, which makes better fights, even though when you're NA it's mostly everyone vs ATS or BRD. But that's an other topic...
I haven't finished reading this thread yet but I HAD to post on this before I finito.
Dude... I spare peasants all the fucking time. Just last night I let two nakeds live to fight two geared dudes and died without any kills over a possible +2... your theory is flawed. I prefer a fun fight.
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So... this appears to be a battle between capitalist ideals and socialist ideals :D
Capitalism = evil and creates whiners that are never happy when they lose the 'good life' they are accustomed to.
I played siege for most of my day off yesterday and I'm happy to say I was in the top 3 on most maps we played and never really paid much attention to multipliers because I was having too much fun smashing face. I wear 37k worth of gear including my weps of course and I still walked out with +1.5 million XP and 10k gold. I was on the winning and the losing team multiple times. How can topping the scoreboards on a constant basis as you claim, not be a huge reward in itself? Who cares if lvl 5 joe peasant is getting more xp/gold then you... he's lvl 5, probally new to the game and NEEDS that xp/gold way more then you do. Focusing on the negative leads to a pessimistic outlook on things.
My question is; what was your score/multiplier on the maps you played before/after this whole 'x1 dilemma' kicked into over-drive.
I've found the easiest way to get people to go where you need them is all caps teamchat. Simply put "PUSH FLAG NOW" "DEFEND FLAG NOW" etc... etc...
Just because you've played this game longer then most and feel you're more skilled then most, doesn't mean you're entitled to a constant multiplier. It means you should be part of a clan by now working on the common goal; winning.
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Yeah.
But actually I found having long blonde hair and saying "I need help at ... please" works best.
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Yeah.
But actually I found having long blonde hair and saying "I need help at ... please" works best.
Can't say that ever helps... :D Caps lock works great because obv. most people aren't staring at the chat bar, can't speak for you, during the heat of battle and some timid "please help omgoose" text isn't going to grab any attention as opposed to spamming "FLAG" in all caps.
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Basically many people play siege like TDM. When defenders have limited lives it can work for attackers. If they dont then it can mess you up.
Generally you can get a group to take a gatehouse/sidedoor/ladder etc and if people see you playing siege like it should be then they are more likely to follow you and listen next round as they too are probably frustrated with moronic team mates.