OP Horse Archers

[Gunnarsn]

I don't know if there's another topic (or thousand) about this, but I've looked on the front page. I don't bother reading through 100 sides eighter.

The Horse Archer is too OP. It's just wrong when a HA can kill 5 lancers or whatever without any problem.
The only thing a HA requires is a fast horse, and you can't kill him or her. So, what I'm suggesting is:
- Make archer damage done by horse less
- Require higher requirements to get rid of some persents of them (?)
- Set a maximum number of HA aviable through a game (?)
- Make the horse require one or two slots (Only if bow equiped?), then the HA can't carry much arrows
- Reduce fire-rate. (Actually more realistic as the horse makes it harder to reload).
- Add a 5PD bow not usable on horseback, with slighter better stats than the actual strongbow.

So, these are my suggestions, if some of you have any good ideas or comeback, I can sure edit the list.
I am not saying to get rid of horse archers, because they are realistic, and they are as everyone else, doing their job.
I only want them to be a little less dangerous...

[Spawny]

HA's aren't OP.

They're annoying and hard to kill being another cav player (be it lancer or 1h/2h cav).
They have their counters: Other HA's (the ones on your team), foot archers who can aim and maybe Horse crossbowmen.

Just don't try to kill one and lure the guy towards your own archers.

[Kafein]

They have their counters: Other HA's

You made my day.

[Overdriven]

HA's aren't OP. Their job is to nullify enemy cav by shooting down horses...if you aren't smart enough to lure an HA to it's death then it's you're problem. Most HA's ocassionally get a good KD. Not consistent, like lancers or 2h. Our job is to be annoying by shooting out horses ect. The only HA's I've ever seen with consistantly high KD are Jackie and Tuenela. Even then there are plenty of maps where they are nullified and stuck in the mid scoreboard area.

The fact is, to be an effective HA, you have to have an extremely dedicated build. That means pumping all your points into archery, PD, Riding, HA, WM and nothing else. Essentially HA's can only be HA's. There's no real scope for shifting to melee or whatever. Seeing as we don't have the athletics, we also don't make that great foot archers and can be caught easily. You can't really punish us for that dedication.

And before suggesting nerfs, I suggest you go and play as one. It's not as easy as it looks. I'm only just getting into the swing of it properly and this is my 3rd HA build.

[Gunnarsn]

Spawny
They're annoying and hard to kill being another cav player (be it lancer or 1h/2h cav).

- a lancer or 1/2h cav can't kill a HA unless the cav use teamwork (not happening) or the HA makes a huge mistake.

[Brutal]

What makes me rage about HA is that on one on one archer are defenseless against them.

That's because Normal archer have to stop to shoot while HA can dodge while shooting. 

It's one thing getting caught by an HA while you're flanking alone with a 2H, but even the guys that can fight them (archers and xbow) have to be in greater number to stand a chance, personally i find that crappy

I wouldn't be against reducing they rate of fire 

Somebody shooting on a horse should have a lesser rate of fire than someone standing no ? whatdoyamean it's a video game 

[Tears of Destiny]

HA's aren't OP. Their job is to nullify enemy cav by shooting down horses...if you aren't smart enough to lure an HA to it's death then it's you're problem. Most HA's ocassionally get a good KD. Not consistent, like lancers or 2h. Our job is to be annoying by shooting out horses ect. The only HA's I've ever seen with consistantly high KD are Jackie and Tuenela. Even then there are plenty of maps where they are nullified and stuck in the mid scoreboard area.

The fact is, to be an effective HA, you have to have an extremely dedicated build. That means pumping all your points into archery, PD, Riding, HA, WM and nothing else. Essentially HA's can only be HA's. There's no real scope for shifting to melee or whatever. Seeing as we don't have the athletics, we also don't make that great foot archers and can be caught easily.

This really. Unless I am on a horse or I am a solo archer close to a very high maneuverability HA that knows what he is doing, I don't really fear HA.

Sure, some of the players are rather deadly, but the majority of HA, like the majority of any class, can mainly only do what they are "built" to do.

When I am playing a shielder I know that unless they are standing still, they don't have the accuracy to actually make foot or headshots. If I am an archer, they rarely can snipe back. When I am playing a 2Her or a PA, even when hit I don't really lose that much HP due to the many sacrifices that the HA is forced to make.

All in all I would consider HA an effective ati-cavalry class that can exploit unaware infantry, a great skirmisher, but altogether more annoying then deadly if I am playing an aware infantryman.

[Overdriven]

You can only suggest nerfs if you've played the build. So go make an HA char and come back in a week. Otherwise you have no experience in it and have probably just been on the receiving end of a couple of very good players.

[Gunnarsn]

That's right, I have never been HA, and therefore I have no experience beeing it.
What I do know, is that other cav have no chance when 2-4 arrows is enough to kill their horse.
If you get a HA behind you, the only things you can do is try to dodge or get of the horse.

Brutal:
I wouldn't be against reducing they rate of fire

Thanks for suggestion ;)

[Brutal]

Ofc my opinion is totally biased , never played HA

[Overdriven]

That's right, I have never been HA, and therefore I have no experience beeing it.
What I do know, is that other cav have no chance when 2-4 arrows is enough to kill their horse.
If you get a HA behind you, the only things you can do is try to dodge or get of the horse.
Thanks for suggestion ;)

No, you can ride back towards your team, only a suicidal HA will follow you towards a group of archers, crossbows and possibly pikemen. The threat of other lancers cutting across you is also every present. If you get an HA behind you, it's only smart that you do that. The problem is, you get pissed off if your going back to find the stragglers/afkers to lance them and you find an HA on your arse who is protecting his team (something I do frequently, I like nothing better than downing a lancer who's killing afkers, only to have those afkers come alive and kill him )

But trust me, riding at full speed on a courser, whilst turning, shooting and judging the speed of the enemies horse is not as easy as it looks. Even harder is shooting an infantryman, whilst circling them, whilst they are bunny hopping around.

[Paul]

Actually I think the main task of horse archers is to dismount enemy light cav. They excel at that and they can at least force the opposing horsemen back to their main group, crossing their backstab plans. On the other side mounted archers can't really do good damage against armored infantry or heavy cavalry. I'm ok with that.

[Bulzur]

As an archer myself, i feel like HA are getting better and better, after always playing.

It's true a "normal" HA is just bothering, but a good HA is kind of OP. His only counter are ranged, and when he's good, he just knows how to dodge them. And i would even only put archers in their real counter, since after a xbow shot, he won't be allowed to reload quietly when an HA is near.

The thing wich bothers me, is that good HA are the only "class" wich is near to unstoppable. I can deal just fine with good 2handers, good Shielders, good footranged, good 1h cav. Good lance cav are already starting to be a pain, but i can stick to my pikeman friends, or go on a high place. Good HA are just a BIG pain.


What i also dislike, is that foot PD5 archer doesn't have any advantage in terms of bow/reload speed/accuracy, versus an HA. If you want to be a 5 PD foot archer, then you take all the inconvenients of not having 6 PD, and the no-maneuver. Foot archer got 7 athletics or such, some times 3 PS. Put 5 points in riding skill, 5 points in horse archery, and you'll be way more deadly as an ha with the same "dedicated" build. It really feels like if you have the money, you ought to go HA, and that's, imo, a problem.

Suggestions :
Add a 5PD bow not usable on horseback, with slighter better stats than the actual strongbow.
OR   Make the strongbow not usable on horseback AND add a 5PD bow with slighter worst stats than the strongbow, for HA.
And you will also add to diversity this way. :S

Please note though, that if the horses (especially the arabian one) get a slighty nerf in terms of maneuver and speed (with a boost of hp or not) it will also be easier to deal with. Though HA will always remain the ONLY class with no melee counters.

[Tears of Destiny]

Blegh, whatever you do, do not make a bow better then the strongbow for PD5... Already the warbow looks near useless besides for niche applications (which is odd considering it is the top bow), and I mainly only use it out of being stubborn.

[Lech]

You can only suggest nerfs if you've played the build. So go make an HA char and come back in a week. Otherwise you have no experience in it and have probably just been on the receiving end of a couple of very good players.

Normal gen 1 horse archers are not a concern, problematic are gen 7+ ones with fully loomed bow and arrows (and horse), as they deal respectable damage unlike gen 1 HA. Getting to gen 7 takes some time, so don't call 'try it'.