Weight of swords...

[Sagremore]

This may belong in historic discussion but I figured a wider audience might be more interested.

The other day there was a heated discussion on NA Siege where some ignorant bloke was saying that a flamberge weighed like 40 lbs or something preposterous. He got torn a new one by several people but he also had a few supporters. Out of curiosity I googled that shit and found these articles. They are kinda long winded for the internet crowd but if you just read the intro and skim theres a lot of good stuff there. As well as ample proof that medieval swords were light balanced and very practical.

2-Handers: http://www.thearma.org/essays/2HGS.html

General Medieval Swords: http://www.thehaca.com/essays/weights.htm

Cheers

[Enzo]

This argument has come up a lot and it usually starts with someone complaining that 2-handed swords shouldn't be faster than 1-handed swords. I can understand why people would think this since one weapon is obviously larger than the other but after reading through some of your links it appears the weight difference is really only a few pounds. That along with the fact that you are using both arms instead of just one, I can see how a 2-hander may be faster.

It looks as though Crpg may be more realistic than I thought 

[Konrax]

A real claymore weighs about 9-10 lbs.

A katana ranges from 2-3lbs.

One handed swords usually weight less or around the same as a katana.

[Digglez]

This argument has come up a lot and it usually starts with someone complaining that 2-handed swords shouldn't be faster than 1-handed swords. I can understand why people would think this since one weapon is obviously larger than the other but after reading through some of your links it appears the weight difference is really only a few pounds. That along with the fact that you are using both arms instead of just one, I can see how a 2-hander may be faster.

It looks as though Crpg may be more realistic than I thought 

The further away from the fulcrum you are, the more speed & force you need to travel the same distance as a shorter lever. 

[Malaclypse]

The further away from the fulcrum you are, the more speed & force you need to travel the same distance as a shorter lever.

This is true, but the force of a swing with two arms will be greater than swinging with only one with the offhand also holding up a relatively bulky shield, I'd think. Foregoing the shield, you will generally swing faster with a 1hand than a 2hand. I went a full gen using a one hander with no shield with 85 WPP (archery being my main vocation), and it swung like lightning.

[IceManX]

A real claymore weighs about 9-10 lbs.

A katana ranges from 2-3lbs.

One handed swords usually weight less or around the same as a katana.

Not rly...

a Claymore had a weight around 2,5 kg - that means around 5 pounds.

There are just some rumors around because the well-preserved weapons are pomp weapons. They were not rly used for fights, just as a decoration.
Normal Medieval weapons had weights around 2,5 pounds to around 5-7 pounds.

But if you talk about weights.
Most of the armors that are well preserved are also just pomp armors, or were made for tournaments. For the tournaments the armors very much thicker because of the cause of accidents.
The normal armors which were used for fights and wars were not as heavy as tournament/pomp armors.

Imagine today a soldier has sometimes more weight than a knight in medieval or even equal to a knight.

And about the speed of 2handers, try urself using a staff or something like that and swing it with 1 hand and then with 2 hands.. there u go.
If u rly get outspammend by a 2h/Polearm, then perhaps his lvl is higher and yours is to low. Or try stacking more Agi

[Jarlek]

This being said. The main advantage that 1 hander with a shield had over 2 handers was that they could attack and defend at the same time. Since that's impossible with the game engine it would be very imbalanced for 1 handers to be slower. Also with fighting in general, it's more about knocking the enemies weapon away than to hit your opponent. Going straight for the kill was one of the quickest ways to die. Sadly, the only thing closely resembling this is chambering.

[Shinimas]

A real claymore weighs about 9-10 lbs.

A katana ranges from 2-3lbs.

One handed swords usually weight less or around the same as a katana.

No, laymore is 2-2,5 kgs, it's weight is generally exaggerated, because it appears to be big, but it's actually a thin, flexible cutting blade.

This being said. The main advantage that 1 hander with a shield had over 2 handers was that they could attack and defend at the same time. Since that's impossible with the game engine it would be very imbalanced for 1 handers to be slower. Also with fighting in general, it's more about knocking the enemies weapon away than to hit your opponent. Going straight for the kill was one of the quickest ways to die. Sadly, the only thing closely resembling this is chambering.

I can't agree with that. One of the main principles of European (German and Italian anyway, two schools we know the most about) fencing was about acting "indes" (German for "inside" or "at the same moment") which involves attacking at the same time your opponent does, utilizing the technique called "master strikes", five strikes which are blocks and attacks at the same time. And from my limited experience with fencing with the shield, the main advantage of it is getting close to your opponent, pressing against him so he can't move his hands, while you're swinging at him.

[Sagremore]

I am glad people are discussing this but its seems like a few decided to comment before really looking through the linked articles.

[Jarlek]

No, laymore is 2-2,5 kgs, it's weight is generally exaggerated, because it appears to be big, but it's actually a thin, flexible cutting blade.

I can't agree with that. One of the main principles of European (German and Italian anyway, two schools we know the most about) fencing was about acting "indes" (German for "inside" or "at the same moment") which involves attacking at the same time your opponent does, utilizing the technique called "master strikes", five strikes which are blocks and attacks at the same time. And from my limited experience with fencing with the shield, the main advantage of it is getting close to your opponent, pressing against him so he can't move his hands, while you're swinging at him.

Soooo, guess we agree then

[Konrax]

No, laymore is 2-2,5 kgs, it's weight is generally exaggerated, because it appears to be big, but it's actually a thin, flexible cutting blade.

I can't agree with that. One of the main principles of European (German and Italian anyway, two schools we know the most about) fencing was about acting "indes" (German for "inside" or "at the same moment") which involves attacking at the same time your opponent does, utilizing the technique called "master strikes", five strikes which are blocks and attacks at the same time. And from my limited experience with fencing with the shield, the main advantage of it is getting close to your opponent, pressing against him so he can't move his hands, while you're swinging at him.

Not that I disagree with you, that the low is around 6 really for a claymore, one made today with modern materials and a steel hilt is indeed in this wight class.

http://www.factoryx.com/ProductDetail.aspx?prodID=SL54077&productFor=m

Just as an example.

[UrLukur]

Not that I disagree with you, that the low is around 6 really for a claymore, one made today with modern materials and a steel hilt is indeed in this wight class.

http://www.factoryx.com/ProductDetail.aspx?prodID=SL54077&productFor=m

Just as an example.

Just pointing out that i can made one that have weight 43243 kilos. And it means squat, because medieval (and bit later) swords were light.

[Bobthehero]

I own an arming sword, it weight 3 lbs at best, my decorative one however...

[MrShovelFace]

The further away from the fulcrum you are, the more speed & force you need to travel the same distance as a shorter lever.

its the other way around

the same reason a wrench is more effective than your teeth

[Cyclopsided]

weapons were typically 2 to 4 pounds, 4 being a larger 2handed word, maybe up to 5 on a greatsword or long 2handed axe.
They were light. Two handed swords do swing faster than a 1hander, but 1 handers get a shield. When you swing with two hands you get two points of influence and it is very easy to swing.
If your weapon was close to 3 pounds, you could swing it around for HOURS while still killing people very very efficiently. Weapons were not heavy, or they could not be used in battle.
For example, one handed battle axes had really small heads and weighed very little. A one handed battle axe would typically weigh 2 to 2.5 pounds

Of course, for game balance one handers and 2 handers swing the same speed. And they do in game. Most shielders seem to have bad footwork and timing which let them get spammed viciously by 2handers. They are not slower weapons in game, contrary to popular belief.

Now for armor. For game balance, you are much slower when wearing armor. Realistically, hardly at all. You can do handstands and cartwheels in platemail, hell you could run a mile at full speed with ease. Knights vaulted up onto their horses with no problem.
Something lighter like Chainmail? You would hardly know you were wearing it. People trained in their armor for years and were completely used to it like it was a part of themselves.