Top tier bow = 2nd teir xbow?

[Native_ATS]

i have been playing a lot of range classes in CRPG, i have done throwing... i have done xbows, and i have done bows.
i learned that high tier bows are 100% crap in every way.
I master worked a light xbow and bolts to deal out 60p per shot. That’s 60p damg with only 7str needed and 0wpf
i have almost master worked a long bow and arrows, it deals  40cut. That 40cut with 8PD and 146wpf
 I have learned and tested that it takes about 3-4 shot with my master work light x-bow to kill most players,
 I have shot the same people with my FineLongBow and i was sadden when it took 3-4 shot..... 
So i thought about it and started to go over the pro and cons...
Bow can be shot at a ok speed... yet i can match almost any bowmen with the speed on my master work light X-bow. They shot and miss i reload and fire back, about 1-1.5 shot per shot if there using strongbow
 --Maybe the aim is better for bows? WRONG! my master work light X-bow has better aim then my FineLongBow... i have 0 in xbow and 146 in bow....
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 --Maybe bows are better to use if i want to wear heavy armor? Well i tested this and learned that if am wearing surcoat over mail i shot my slow bow even slower!... yet my Master work xbow is just fine no matter what i wear...
 --Bows can’t even hold their shot for a good time... xbows can hold their shot all day,
 --One up side is you can reload as you move, but your movement is slowed as you do it

Is it fair that i can deal the same damg with a light xbow with 0 skill points used and 0 wpf as a bowmen with 8pd and 146wpf?  The real answer is no...
I am really sad to say that bows are over nerfed, please buff the higher tier bows...
any ideas on this or thoughts about balance?

[Seawied]

Top tier bows could use a small buff in damage. Longbow should have 27p in my opinion.

[MouthnHoof]

Any balancing between ranged weapons should be done by nerfing that which is considered too good, never by buffing any.
We have been there and I do not want to go back.
Yes I am biased.

[Gorath]

--Maybe the aim is better for bows? WRONG! my master work light X-bow has better aim then my FineLongBow... i have 0 in xbow and 146 in bow.... 

This is bullshit.  Screenshot these x-hairs, at peak draw with the bow, and prove it.  I have an archer and I have an x-bowman.  My x-bowman has 130 in x-bow and my archer has 150 in bow wpf and my archers x-hair reticule gets tighter than my x-bowman's does at peak draw with my strongbow.  LongBow has been known to be a shit bow forever now.  Use a warbow or strong bow, those are the top tier bows.  Long bow is just there for lulz when people buy it and wonder why it sucks.

Btw, you're also forgetting that your 40c bow doesn't really deal 40c with 8 PD because PD increases the damage of the bow.     In reality you're doing more like 60c or 72c (I don't remember what % PD adds to the damage).

[Native_ATS]

This is bullshit.  Screenshot these x-hairs, at peak draw with the bow, and prove it.  I have an archer and I have an x-bowman.  My x-bowman has 130 in x-bow and my archer has 150 in bow wpf and my archers x-hair reticule gets tighter than my x-bowman's does at peak draw with my strongbow.  LongBow has been known to be a shit bow forever now.  Use a warbow or strong bow, those are the top tier bows.  Long bow is just there for lulz when people buy it and wonder why it sucks.

Btw, you're also forgetting that your 40c bow doesn't really deal 40c with 8 PD because PD increases the damage of the bow.     In reality you're doing more like 60c or 72c (I don't remember what % PD adds to the damage).

I will post the screen shots...
Then you will be like WTF... If am doing like 72cut why is it that my master work light xbow pwning my long bow?  also with 8pd i belive i am dealing a max of 59 cut. The war bow deals less damg...  Also what xbow are you using? I got a master work light, and it dose aim better then my longbow or warbow lol Long bow is higher priced and deals the most damg, also that am all bow build and the xbow needs nothing to be better then my 24,15 bow build.the longbow it is ranked up there with the top teir weapons for bows, even if it is Not, then i wounder why the warbow is weaker then the masterwork light xbow? This isnt BS this are Facts

[Tears of Destiny]

Are you complaining that your Masterwork X is performing extremely well when compared to a Fine X?
How about a masterwork longbow or warbow?

Anywho, I say, give a slight buff to the longbow, leave the others alone, and nerf crossbows.

Additionally, are you tapping the attack button for your bow to shoot, or are you holding it down and releasing at the right "sweet spot" when shooting? I do not believe that if you are holding it down to find the sweet spot that it is somehow larger then your masterwork 0 wpf xbow...

Coming as someone with a multi-gen dedicated archer, this thread merely shows that crossbows need to be nerfed, and that the longbow, as usual, is garbage... and that the OP needs to provide evidence of this wpf discrepancy.

EDIT: As a side note, the reloading mechanics of a crossbow means that I can not run and gun with it. In the acre server yesterday I was switching from my melee weapon to my bow and letting off a shot to kill someone, then switching right back and repeating when surrounded by enemies in melee. This would be impossible with a crossbow due to me only being able to do this just once (I have a warbow fyi) and then having to sit still in melee to reload.

Bows always have been able to shoot better "on the bounce."

[Native_ATS]

Are you complaining that your Masterwork X is performing extremely well when compared to a Fine X?
How about a masterwork longbow or warbow?

Anywho, I say, give a slight buff to the longbow, leave the others alone, and nerf crossbows.

Additionally, are you tapping the attack button for your bow to shoot, or are you holding it down and releasing at the right "sweet spot" when shooting? I do not believe that if you are holding it down to find the sweet spot that it is somehow larger then your masterwork 0 wpf xbow...

Coming as someone with a multi-gen dedicated archer, this thread merely shows that crossbows need to be nerfed, and that the longbow, as usual, is garbage... and that the OP needs to provide evidence of this wpf discrepancy.

EDIT: As a side note, the reloading mechanics of a crossbow means that I can not run and gun with it. In the acre server yesterday I was switching from my melee weapon to my bow and letting off a shot to kill someone, then switching right back and repeating when surrounded by enemies in melee. This would be impossible with a crossbow due to me only being able to do this just once (I have a warbow fyi) and then having to sit still in melee to reload.

Bows always have been able to shoot better "on the bounce."

ok 3rd loomed LIGHT Xbow is out doing my 2nd loomed LongBow... the +1damg and +1aim Master work LongBow wont make a Big diff in this,

[Tennenoth]

I have to agree with Native, the number of times i've been in a tight situation, seen a crossbow, ditched my loomed longbow and actually managed to hit harder, more accurately and practically just as far is rediculous. Also, on another note, I can two shot someone in the same armour as me while I get 1 shot myself (The person I tested this with had no Ironflesh and 18 strength, same as me).

I cannot honestly say that bows are a viable option for ranged these days, people do ok with them, but i've only recently seen someone do WELL with one, and that was because he was picking off peasants.

These arguments/threads have been going on for a while now, it's not because archers as a whole feel hard done by, it's not because we whine and moan about throwing or xbows, although we are not exhempt from it. We're one of the most hated classes there are and we have taken beatings over our equipment and stats for a long time while watching others sit fairly undamaged.

[Hirlok]

Native is perfectly right - I tested masterworked sniper xbow and masterworked warbow. 140 WPF in archery, 1 in xbow. In that case the reticule was bigger for the xbow, but accuracy was same or better nevertheless, since the shots did not vary so much compared to the bow - so you could just aim in the middle of the bigger reticule and it would usually hit.

Still prefer the bow, for obvious reasons. 

[Native_ATS]

Native is perfectly right - I tested masterworked sniper xbow and masterworked warbow. 140 WPF in archery, 1 in xbow. In that case the reticule was bigger for the xbow, but accuracy was same or better nevertheless, since the shots did not vary so much compared to the bow - so you could just aim in the middle of the bigger reticule and it would usually hit.

Still prefer the bow, for obvious reasons. 

and that was the master work sniper O.O it deals way more then a master work long bow! my master work light deals the same as my 2xheirloomed longbow
spread the word, top tier bows need love!

[Fasader]

This is bullshit.  Screenshot these x-hairs, at peak draw with the bow, and prove it.  I have an archer and I have an x-bowman.  My x-bowman has 130 in x-bow and my archer has 150 in bow wpf and my archers x-hair reticule gets tighter than my x-bowman's does at peak draw with my strongbow.  LongBow has been known to be a shit bow forever now.  Use a warbow or strong bow, those are the top tier bows.  Long bow is just there for lulz when people buy it and wonder why it sucks.

Btw, you're also forgetting that your 40c bow doesn't really deal 40c with 8 PD because PD increases the damage of the bow.     In reality you're doing more like 60c or 72c (I don't remember what % PD adds to the damage).

Aye,

If it's really 14% as the tooltip in native suggests then that would mean 112% increase. There's also some damage increase from wpf. Which would mean something like 85-90c.


@Native:
go troll somewhere else please

[Native_ATS]

Aye,

If it's really 14% as the tooltip in native suggests then that would mean 112% increase. There's also some damage increase from wpf. Which would mean something like 85-90c.


@Native:
go troll somewhere else please

Your basing all your info on "If" so why dont you go troll somewhere ells!
This is CRPG not Native.... it is not 14%, i hate when people post with out bring anything to the table.... Think befor you post, dont say things that you dont know about, you might want to help but when u post lies someone might belive you... we need truth, real ideas and thoughs

[Tears of Destiny]

What distance was it to kill him?

[kongxinga]

Aye,

If it's really 14% as the tooltip in native suggests then that would mean 112% increase. There's also some damage increase from wpf. Which would mean something like 85-90c.


@Native:
go troll somewhere else please

Not going to question a dev, but are you sure it is 14%? I remember the bonuses being standardized at 8%, so 8 % for power strike throw and draw.

The crossbows generally have faster projectile speed, so maybe that is a factor in accuracy (in practise).

If anything, high tier bows don't need more damage. But low tier bows could use some boost in damage. With the 37.5 k gold limit on equipment, some guy can grab a weapon and enough armour to pretty much ignore any bow body shots under strong bow, with the only significant amount of damage being the +7 damage from bodkins. Strong, war and long bows can reliably punch through affordable armour.

[Paul]

14% per PD is correct, upper limit is difficulty + 4. Wpf bonus multiplicator is (wpf * 0.01 * 0.15 + 0.85), so 100 wpf is needed to get base damage.

Cut down to 90% during rain.