Poll

Update multiplier during the round before every xp/gold gain ?

Yes
35 (76.1%)
No
11 (23.9%)

Total Members Voted: 46

Voting closed: March 30, 2011, 01:31:46 pm

Author Topic: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system [edited]  (Read 3961 times)

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Offline Garrus

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[SUGG] Team performance based experience system [edited]
« on: March 22, 2011, 10:05:20 pm »
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Dear Developers,
could you please do a test week with this configuration ?

(click to show/hide)
I hope you see the point! Give it a try.

P.S. I think if it works, then the maximal multiplier should be raised to x10, (x5 provides narrow margins)
decrease the gen xp bonus to 5% (i am gen16, im not trolling), and raise the
level gaps, lets say, with 50%.
As I hope, this system brings some fun into game, increases team moral.

I suggest a week test period for this system, it absolutely fits into the new gameplay.

one more thing: skilled players cry because the personal performance isnt rewarded.
with this, helping your teammates is directly rewarded, and if your team loose with high multiplier,
you and your gang can kill enough enemy before you die, then you will be a hero,
because your team will not reset to x1. Thatswhy I suggested to raise maximal multiplier:
because with higher possible multipliers not falling back to x1 worths much more.

it may be still refined.

opinions ?

EDIT 1:
if max multiplier is 10, then the algorithm looks like this
(click to show/hide)

yes, it means, if both your team and the enemy has 50-50 player,
and you have x10, but you loose, and you killed less than 10 enemy while your team was of course destroyed, then you reset to x1!! but if only 5 enemy survives, that means your team killed
90% of the enemy team, then your multiplier goes back to x9, so it will reward the whole team for performance.

This system says: only you and one of your teammates is alive against 13 enemies ? don't give up.


EDIT 2: (Dynamic multiplier)
Forget it, need to think about it more.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 03:41:57 pm by Garrus »
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Offline Tears of Destiny

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2011, 10:29:34 pm »
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Considering this is the first solution that actually rewards for team play, I love it. +1
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline Felagunda

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2011, 10:42:39 pm »
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I hope you see the point! Give it a try.

P.S. I think if it works, then the maximal multiplier should be raised to x10, (x5 provides narrow margins)
decrease the gen xp bonus to 5% (i am gen16, im not trolling), and raise the
level gaps, lets say, with 50%.
As I hope, this system brings some fun into game, increases team moral.

I suggest a week test period for this system, it absolutely fits into the new gameplay.
opinions ?

Great thinking man I love it but ya if they did this idea they would have to both increase the multi max to 10 and reduce the bonus for gens.  I am gen 24 and at least support the testing of such a system.  Heck why not, it does reward teamplay!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 10:46:59 pm by Felagunda »

Offline Christo

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2011, 10:49:26 pm »
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Anything for a better gaming experience, I say!
 :wink:
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Offline Garrus

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2011, 11:19:38 pm »
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Great thinking man I love it but ya if they did this idea they would have to both increase the multi max to 10 and reduce the bonus for gens.  I am gen 24 and at least support the testing of such a system.  Heck why not, it does reward teamplay!

Raising maximal multiplier and reducing gen bonus is not neccessary, but:
there is not high enough difference between (x4 -> x1) and (x4 -> x3) when you loose.
But if you are at e.g. x8, then falling back to x7 and to x1 is very different.
With my system, in very few cases would you fall back to x1 from x8, only if the enemy team is very strong.
but x10 also brings faster leveling, thatswhy we need bigger level gaps and lower gen bonus.

Quote from: I inserted this part into the opening post
btw,
if max multiplier is 10, then the algorithm looks like this

if (won) then
{
    if (SURVIVALRATE >= 0.9) then { multiplier=multiplier+9 }
    else if (SURVIVALRATE >= 0.8) then { multiplier=multiplier+8 }
    else if (SURVIVALRATE >= 0.7) then { multiplier=multiplier+7 }
    else if (SURVIVALRATE >= 0.6) then { multiplier=multiplier+6 }
    else if (SURVIVALRATE >= 0.5) then { multiplier=multiplier+5 }
    else if (SURVIVALRATE >= 0.4) then { multiplier=multiplier+4 }
    else if (SURVIVALRATE >= 0.3) then { multiplier=multiplier+3 }
    else if (SURVIVALRATE >= 0.2) then { multiplier=multiplier+2 }
    else { multiplier=multiplier+1 }
}
else
{
    if (KILLINGRATE >= 0.9) then { multiplier=multiplier-1 }
    else if (KILLINGRATE >= 0.8) then { multiplier=multiplier-2 }
    else if (KILLINGRATE >= 0.7) then { multiplier=multiplier-3 }
    else if (KILLINGRATE >= 0.6) then { multiplier=multiplier-4 }
    else if (KILLINGRATE >= 0.5) then { multiplier=multiplier-5 }
    else if (KILLINGRATE >= 0.4) then { multiplier=multiplier-6 }
    else if (KILLINGRATE >= 0.3) then { multiplier=multiplier-7 }
    else if (KILLINGRATE >= 0.2) then { multiplier=multiplier-8 }
    else { multiplier=multiplier-9 }
}

I didn't want to write it in 1 line, because this way its easier to understand, but
you can write it in 2 line and then the maximal multiplier can be easily modified


I beg you guys: think about it more times, we have to find the drawbacks of this system!
« Last Edit: March 22, 2011, 11:34:03 pm by Garrus »
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Offline Felagunda

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2011, 11:37:37 pm »
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The one thing I think would have to be implemented with such a system would be something different in general would have to be used for siege.  Also people would be so much more inclined to camp that ladders from battle would have to go.

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2011, 11:57:02 pm »
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One more advantage is that it encourages even further for people not to TK, as it is less potential XP for you!

However, I think one problem with this is that people will start yelling at peasants to not participate in battle unless they have to, in fear of the peasants being slaughtered and "bringing down XP." Life as a peasant might be a wee bit more boring, and people might adapt by specializing in "support" roles while under level 15, by brining 0 PT throwing items, xbows and seige shields, of which might contribute more to the spamming range that some people dislike.

However, this might turn into a tactic to further hunt enemy peasants for range/cav users, as that will ensure the enemy team has a lower XP gain due to the additional losses.

Peasants would turn into valuable semi-deadly cattle that need to be protected.
I'm not normal and I don't pretend so, my approach is pretty much a bomb crescendo.
Death is a fun way to pass the time though, several little bullets moving in staccato.
The terror of my reign will live on in infamy, singing when they die like a dead man's symphony.

Offline Garrus

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2011, 12:40:07 am »
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The whole aim of this system is to make teammembers dependent on each other.

A lasso would be awesome, so you could catch kamikaze peasants
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Offline Farrok

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2011, 01:05:03 am »
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i like it, and some little testing doesnt hurt ;)

peasants...yeah would be additional thing for battle/siege->protect your peasants :D

...dont have problem with that with the higher multiplier (and decreased retirement bonus) a peasantstage shouldnt be so long (even now its fast to get to lvl20-24)
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Offline EponiCo

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2011, 01:12:14 am »
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One more advantage is that it encourages even further for people not to TK, as it is less potential XP for you!

However, I think one problem with this is that people will start yelling at peasants to not participate in battle unless they have to, in fear of the peasants being slaughtered and "bringing down XP." Life as a peasant might be a wee bit more boring, and people might adapt by specializing in "support" roles while under level 15, by brining 0 PT throwing items, xbows and seige shields, of which might contribute more to the spamming range that some people dislike.

However, this might turn into a tactic to further hunt enemy peasants for range/cav users, as that will ensure the enemy team has a lower XP gain due to the additional losses.

Peasants would turn into valuable semi-deadly cattle that need to be protected.

Lol.
That could be actually hilarious.

Quote
This system says: only you and one of your teammates is alive against 13 enemies ? don't give up.

But with this I disagree. A lone horse archer should not be encouraged to run and pick up new arrows just because he may kill 2 more.
Also I think the general idea should be the big bonus for winning and a small bonus for survivors/kills.

Offline Garrus

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2011, 01:17:12 am »
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i like it, and some little testing doesnt hurt ;)

peasants...yeah would be additional thing for battle/siege->protect your peasants :D

...dont have problem with that with the higher multiplier (and decreased retirement bonus) a peasantstage shouldnt be so long (even now its fast to get to lvl20-24)

I don't know whether devs can fire up a server with this system, something like beta test.
We could create a character and in my opinion 1 week would be enough to have results.
Then of course those beta characters will be deleted.

I hope cmpx or chadz says something soon...
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Offline Garrus

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2011, 01:23:41 am »
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Lol.
That could be actually hilarious.

But with this I disagree. A lone horse archer should not be encouraged to run and pick up new arrows just because he may kill 2 more.
Also I think the general idea should be the big bonus for winning and a small bonus for survivors/kills.

That arrow picker horsearcher nightmare is reality even now :)
So that problem isn't related to my system.
Btw, I don't see much difference between a last-man-HA and a last-man-roofcamping-archer, do you ?
Both are unreachable.
And of course rules don't change: No run as last, and no camping at unreachable spot.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 01:24:49 am by Garrus »
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Offline MouthnHoof

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2011, 01:34:05 am »
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Generally I like it.
Problems:

With this you will generally spend your time with higher multiplier than now (on average). It will require lowering the tic xp/gold value. In itself it is not a problem.

I would advise against going to very high multipliers. On servers with moderate numbers the arrival of a clan or any organized group usually create a streak of victories. It is unavoidable, but sitting on x10 for a few rounds is alot!.

The multipliers do not have to be integers, the increments can be 0.2 to have a finer control within a x5 limit.


Offline EponiCo

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2011, 01:36:07 am »
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Yep. It's bad enough as it is, don't reward them for it, is what I mean.
Rules are a grey area, I'm pretty sure the only thing that's really bannable is standing on a roof with destroyed ladder. But all other delaying tactics are allowed as long as you fight.

Offline Garrus

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Re: [SUGG] Team performance based experience system
« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2011, 02:06:23 am »
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Generally I like it.
Problems:

With this you will generally spend your time with higher multiplier than now (on average). It will require lowering the tic xp/gold value. In itself it is not a problem.

I would advise against going to very high multipliers. On servers with moderate numbers the arrival of a clan or any organized group usually create a streak of victories. It is unavoidable, but sitting on x10 for a few rounds is alot!.

The multipliers do not have to be integers, the increments can be 0.2 to have a finer control within a x5 limit.

Yes, because of high multipiers I wanted make gaps between levels bigger,
so from 1 to 2 wouldn't be 2500, but 6000, or something like that.
But with real numbers it shouldn't be dirtied, so yes, I like that, and I hope multiplier type isn't hardcoded.

The victorystreak is a true problem, but.
With bannerbalance it happens also in the current system that on 20 player server a clan
makes x5 streaks. Autobalance can solve the problem.
It can make keeping the x5 harder and harder.

if we get to a situation, where the blue team has 1 player, and the red has 7, because
that 1 guy is so good, and the autobalance can not put him in a loosing situation,
then I ask: if somebody alone beats 7 enemy, he doesn't deserved high xp and gold ?

Another case, when 5vs15, and that 5 is in the same clan. I'm sure that the autobalance
is already doing that: it takes 1 guy from the clan and puts to enemy,
it overrides bannerbalance.
So in next round at least 1 of them will loose. And it keeps doing it to make the game egal.
You won 4 round in a row ? Autobalance puts you into the loosing team, so equalizes the game.
Moreover, currently if server has e.g. 3vs1 and you are alone and you crush 3 peasants, then
your multiplier will stuck at max x2, try it.

Sooo, I don't think that the the x5streaks are the problem..
But how does this system works with 16 players, presume not in the same clan.
Does it hold the scales even ?
« Last Edit: March 23, 2011, 02:09:44 am by Garrus »
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